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Off-Topic Discussion  » Cutting bullets.

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63 posts found
  WantsumBier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 1075

Its Mega-kong if you are wondering.

7/27/07 11:43:30 PM#41

Originally posted by Rikimaru_X

 

Originally posted by WantsumBier

OK Riki fair enough... How about this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN-Tm9HSKdg

 

I think someone deleted my reply to this. Basically I can get though that guy too. He has to stand still to shoot that much and put all his focus into his hands. So once I dodge the first 6 I will move on in and cut him up.

Actually It looks like his focus was on the red ballons (each smaller than a juman head).  I'm not saying it would not be possible for a ninja, but it would pose a challenge.

A pirate would not stand a chance.

I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.

  User Deleted
7/28/07 12:01:25 AM#42

What is wrong with you people? Are you all so insecure that you need massive arsenals just to feel safe in your little studio apartments? You nerds are just Taxi Driver wannabes, but I'm sure that Robert De Niro could kick all of your asses his butt cheeks.

 

 

 

........On that note, I've got a couple of 357's, dozens of knives, a few swords and a sawed off shotgun in my studio apartment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I've got a big collection too i

  Olujiwan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/06
Posts: 18

Equilibrium

7/28/07 12:04:31 AM#43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iK2ndUyKE8&mode=related&search=

This speed is just freaking not from planet earth o_O

 

unbeleiveable.....*Astounded*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Finds out his mouth is still open, and closes it...*

Equilibrium's Community Leader.
A dedicated Guildwars 2 PvP Guild.

  Xexima

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/05
Posts: 2692

Cogito, ergo sum

7/28/07 12:13:47 AM#44

Personally, I own a ruger .22/10.  If some guy was standing VERY still 50ft away, I could shoot him in the pupil, but that is not very effective at such a close range... may be the 10 shots I could get off in about 2 seconds might help.

I say knifes FTW

  Malachi1975

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/04
Posts: 1079

Common sense is no longer common.

7/28/07 12:23:20 AM#45
Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

What is wrong with you people? Are you all so insecure that you need massive arsenals just to feel safe in your little studio apartments? You nerds are just Taxi Driver wannabes, but I'm sure that Robert De Niro could kick all of your asses his butt cheeks.

 

 

 

........On that note, I've got a couple of 357's, dozens of knives, a few swords and a sawed off shotgun in my studio apartment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I've got a big collection too i


Dude, 1- I live in a 1400 sq ft home that I own with my gal and 2- Get Bobby D over here. I'd LET him kick my ass. He's too cool. Hell, I would run around for weeks saying "Man! Bobby D came over to my house and kicked my ass!!!"

"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  Zikiel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/07
Posts: 1140

 
OP  7/28/07 12:27:57 AM#46

Hehe, got me a Ruger 10/22 also, I like it.  I could make a kill with it, but damn- I can not hit small targets worth shit with it. In other news.. I need to go see Taxi Driver.. never did that.

  WantsumBier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 1075

Its Mega-kong if you are wondering.

7/28/07 12:47:09 AM#47

I also have a small collection Ruger 10/22, Mossburg 12 ga Turkey gun, MAC 90 assault rifle, Ruger 44 mag (single action), H&K USP compact .40, Sig 9mm. , Walther P-22 with bridge mounted red dot (very fun), and a Kimber .45 (My off duty CCW).

I did not buy these for home defense, I bought them because I like shooting! I put a couple hundred rounds down range every week.

I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.

  WantsumBier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 1075

Its Mega-kong if you are wondering.

7/28/07 12:50:31 AM#48

Originally posted by Zikiel

Hehe, got me a Ruger 10/22 also, I like it.  I could make a kill with it, but damn- I can not hit small targets worth shit with it. In other news.. I need to go see Taxi Driver.. never did that.

Invest in an inexpensive optics system for it. Like this one.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/tasco-1x30-22-reddot.html

 

I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.

  Zikiel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/07
Posts: 1140

 
OP  7/28/07 12:52:17 AM#49

Just remembered something.. I think this thread would appreciate it. Actually, I think my shooting problem has more to do with holding steady, I can see the target, but I think I'm just a bit unsteady.

 

  WantsumBier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 1075

Its Mega-kong if you are wondering.

7/28/07 1:05:38 AM#50

sorry cant see the pic

I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.

  Malachi1975

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/04
Posts: 1079

Common sense is no longer common.

7/28/07 2:06:53 AM#51

Originally posted by Urdig

I could have swore that the .45 pistol was made specifically for close quarter combat.  Something to do with Philipinoes and machetes.

At 6 feet a large caliber pistol doesn't have to be aimed.  It only needs to be pointed.  

 

 


As was said below, you are correct in that the .45 Cal was designed to have a greater impact on the Philipos, but it was NOT designed for "close combat". The change was the "stopping" power of the round, but it's accuracy at any given range. Sadly, too many people think Hollywood is real and that people get knocked backward when shot with a round, but anyone know knows anything about simple physics knows that for a round to knock you back 5' the shooter would also have to be knocked back (or have something to help resist said force) the same 5'. Equal and opposite reactions and all.

As for caliber having ANYTHING to do with whether or not it still needs to be aimed or pointed, that has to be one of the silliest ideas in firearms I have ever heard. Changing from 9mm to .45 caliber is still going from roughly 1/4" to 1/2" (slightly under as .50 cal aka. 12.5mm is 1/2" in diameter). You STILL need to aim at your target. Adding 1/4" of an inch in your projectiles size doesn't suddenly allow it to sweep a 3 foot area with a single round. Had you sad a shotgun with double o. buck not needing to be aimed I would have agreed a bit more. But all slugs need to be aimed.

Also, if you read my encounters I am talking true point-blank encounters. Coming into my house you wouldn't have 6' between you an I. You'd be lucky to have 2'. I take my home defense lessons from the Japanese and their castles. Make your invaders run upwards and change directions at all times. There's a prime reason why Japanese Castles were a bitch to sack.

.45 Caliber still standing, it does not cause as much tissue damage as a kitchen knife. The speed alone of the bullet causes cleaner nerve ending cuts which produce a higher level of tollerance when in shock. A blade tears nerve endings, which causes more pain. A great example of this would be that for many people you actually feel more pain when you skin your knee as opposed to when you stab your thumb with a sewing needle.

But that's just circling the debate. I only wanted to correct you in that the .45 was adopted because it had more "stopping" power, it wasn't designed for "close combat" per se. That would be a product of the pistole firing the round, not the round itself (and yes, Colt .45s were notorious for being crap at accuracy at anything more than 20ft most of the time, but that was due to a poor trigger design and hefty recoil.)

"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  User Deleted
7/28/07 4:11:02 PM#52

Malachi , your argueing a never ending argument.  I gotta say I think i pretty much agree with most of what you write.  Theres just to many factors for anyone to sit on this forum and say this is what I would do.  most people don't commit crimes when the victom is waiting for them or they are alert.  Just way to many situations that can't be planned for.   People can take steps to help protect themselves and have lifestyle practices that are in favor of them successfully defending themselves in case something should ever occur.  But I get the feeling theres more Hot Air on this subject than anything else from alot of people.

 

On more funny note.  If your gonna go big do it right for the Dirty Harry's out there.  Get something that will blow a limp off or knock a chunck out the torso if you can hold onto it.  60 cal

 

 * edit Changed the link  to a  better version of the same video.

2nd edit. Found a post on some forums from the owner of this huge beast.  Along with the guns specs here.  For those who might be curious or doubt the guns caliber size.   This handguns freaken hilarious.

  User Deleted
7/28/07 5:12:00 PM#53

I would take my 250mw green laser pointer with me over a gun or a knife any day. Just shine it in there eye's, blinding them, and if I get hit I can cauterize my own wound.

  WantsumBier

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 1075

Its Mega-kong if you are wondering.

7/28/07 5:37:09 PM#54

Gun, knife, sword, or what ever, you still have to get through my two fur covered ass eaters first!  That will give me the time to empty any assortment of rounds I feel like into your soft tissue.

To the poster up a couple. "stopping power" is a misnomer. The only real damage done by a bullet is the hole it makes, there may be some systemic shock created by the fluidic shock wave that proceeds the projectile, but it is minimal at best.  The FBI did a big study on it, and they even stated there are too many variables to take into consideration regarding what type or cal. of round is better.  They basicly came to the conclusion that the round that penetrates and destroys critical body parts is the best.  It could be .22 or .50, it is penatration and shot placement that counts.

I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.

  User Deleted
7/28/07 9:39:10 PM#55

 

Originally posted by WantsumBier

Gun, knife, sword, or what ever, you still have to get through my two fur covered ass eaters first!  That will give me the time to empty any assortment of rounds I feel like into your soft tissue.

To the poster up a couple. "stopping power" is a misnomer. The only real damage done by a bullet is the hole it makes, there may be some systemic shock created by the fluidic shock wave that proceeds the projectile, but it is minimal at best.  The FBI did a big study on it, and they even stated there are too many variables to take into consideration regarding what type or cal. of round is better.  They basicly came to the conclusion that the round that penetrates and destroys critical body parts is the best.  It could be .22 or .50, it is penatration and shot placement that counts.

Nm. deleted. I re-read your post and  I don't think you were refering to me. 

  Urdig

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 1263

I do wish I didn''t still miss her.

7/28/07 11:02:16 PM#56

The .45 was designed to be a man stopper.  Something you could fire quickly and accurately from close range and drop your target with one or two shots.  The .45 pistol sucks when you stretch the distance between you and your target.  As is the case with any handgun It's most effective closer up. 

The .44 is a mean handgun as well, but the recoil on it is a real pain in the ass.  It takes to much work to fire of consecutive shots and stay on target.  It's a lot easier to fire the .45.

One of the reasons the .45 isn't a service issue cartridge anymore is because of the damage it does.  Apparently when you're at war it's more humane to riddle a person with a bunch of 9mm so they can die slow then to blow a gapping hole in the person and kill them quick.  God forbid you kill the enemy.

The US military did extensive testing of the .45 in the Philipines against natives that weilded machetes.  They concluded that the .45 was more effective against a human target then the .38 they had been using.  The .38 wasn't a man stopper, and the Philipinoes were handing US GI's thier asses.  The army was looking for a close quarters service pistol, and they found it in the M1911.

When you're carrying a rifle and a pistol, the only reason you're using your pistol is because the enemy is bearing down on you.  You use the rifle to shoot them if they are 20 yards out, the pistol if they are only a few feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.  It's also been reported that the Moros wore a very effective bamboo "armor" that was difficult to penetrate with the smaller caliber revolver. The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the last decades of the 19th century; the slower, heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen. The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It also prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Caliber 

The result is one of the world's more effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets. The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. Like many pistol cartridges, it is a low-velocity round, and thus not particularly effective against body armor. Another drawback for large scale military operations is the cartridge's large size, weight, the increased material cost of manufacture compared to the 9 mm Parabellum cartridge, and lack of compliance with Standardization Agreements pertaining to handgun ammunition currently enacted between the US and many of its allies.

Even in its non-expanding full metal jacket (FMJ) version, the .45 ACP cartridge has a reputation for effectiveness against human targets because its large diameter creates a deep and substantial permanent wound channel, although some writers, such as the published work of Marshall and Sanow, have cast the reputation of .45 ACP being the "best" at this task into doubt. Although there has been some doubt cast on the work itself, the Marshall and Sanow work remains the standard of modern thought on ballistic performance.

 

Wish Darkfall would release.

  Urdig

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 1263

I do wish I didn''t still miss her.

7/28/07 11:09:19 PM#57

 

Originally posted by WantsumBier

Gun, knife, sword, or what ever, you still have to get through my two fur covered ass eaters first!  That will give me the time to empty any assortment of rounds I feel like into your soft tissue.

To the poster up a couple. "stopping power" is a misnomer. The only real damage done by a bullet is the hole it makes, there may be some systemic shock created by the fluidic shock wave that proceeds the projectile, but it is minimal at best.  The FBI did a big study on it, and they even stated there are too many variables to take into consideration regarding what type or cal. of round is better.  They basicly came to the conclusion that the round that penetrates and destroys critical body parts is the best.  It could be .22 or .50, it is penatration and shot placement that counts.

A .22 round can bounce of a mans skull, and a .50 cal has to much recoil to be effective.

 

.22 is only deadly because it's tendency to ricochete off bone.  It enters one place and ends up bouncing around damaging organs.  It's also useless if you have to kill a man right now.

You're right.  The hole is what matters, and the bigger the exit wound the more damage is done and the less likely a person is going to keep moving; hence the term man stopper.  The .45 imlike the .22 or 9mm is designed to kill, not wound.  It's why the .45 is no longer used.  The hole it left behind was determined to be inhumane in a battle and a smaller caliber round, that did less damage was desired.  Placement means more when firing a 9mm then it doesn with a .45.  A 9 isn't going to take your arm off, a .45 can.

Wish Darkfall would release.

  Draenor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/16/03
Posts: 7943

[Insert Tool lyrics]

7/29/07 2:12:28 AM#58
Originally posted by Urdig

The .45 was designed to be a man stopper.  Something you could fire quickly and accurately from close range and drop your target with one or two shots.  The .45 pistol sucks when you stretch the distance between you and your target.  As is the case with any handgun It's most effective closer up. 

The .44 is a mean handgun as well, but the recoil on it is a real pain in the ass.  It takes to much work to fire of consecutive shots and stay on target.  It's a lot easier to fire the .45.

One of the reasons the .45 isn't a service issue cartridge anymore is because of the damage it does.  Apparently when you're at war it's more humane to riddle a person with a bunch of 9mm so they can die slow then to blow a gapping hole in the person and kill them quick.  God forbid you kill the enemy.

The US military did extensive testing of the .45 in the Philipines against natives that weilded machetes.  They concluded that the .45 was more effective against a human target then the .38 they had been using.  The .38 wasn't a man stopper, and the Philipinoes were handing US GI's thier asses.  The army was looking for a close quarters service pistol, and they found it in the M1911.

When you're carrying a rifle and a pistol, the only reason you're using your pistol is because the enemy is bearing down on you.  You use the rifle to shoot them if they are 20 yards out, the pistol if they are only a few feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.  It's also been reported that the Moros wore a very effective bamboo "armor" that was difficult to penetrate with the smaller caliber revolver. The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the last decades of the 19th century; the slower, heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen. The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It also prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Caliber 

The result is one of the world's more effective combat pistol cartridges, one that combines very good accuracy and stopping power for use against human targets. The cartridge also has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, as well as moderate recoil. Like many pistol cartridges, it is a low-velocity round, and thus not particularly effective against body armor. Another drawback for large scale military operations is the cartridge's large size, weight, the increased material cost of manufacture compared to the 9 mm Parabellum cartridge, and lack of compliance with Standardization Agreements pertaining to handgun ammunition currently enacted between the US and many of its allies.

Even in its non-expanding full metal jacket (FMJ) version, the .45 ACP cartridge has a reputation for effectiveness against human targets because its large diameter creates a deep and substantial permanent wound channel, although some writers, such as the published work of Marshall and Sanow, have cast the reputation of .45 ACP being the "best" at this task into doubt. Although there has been some doubt cast on the work itself, the Marshall and Sanow work remains the standard of modern thought on ballistic performance.

 


Not true about pistols being only for when the enemy is bearing down on you...the pistol is for when you sneak up behind someone and don't want to waste ammo by using your primary rifle, or you just want the little pistol icon to come up on the screen after you get the kill so that you can say "haha I pistol killed you!"

Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  cornoffcob

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 856

easthastings.
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7/29/07 2:58:26 AM#59

Originally posted by Zikiel

Hehe, got me a Ruger 10/22 also, I like it.  I could make a kill with it, but damn- I can not hit small targets worth shit with it. In other news.. I need to go see Taxi Driver.. never did that.

Xex, and I both used to competition shoot a year or so ago...I'm considered a distinguished expert...I used to use a remington .22 longrifle and I could put bullets through the same hole at 100m...(in prone that is)

if you're having trouble shooting I suggest doing breathing exercises:  train your self to take one very deep breath and let it all go, and stay like that until you run out of oxegen and need to take a breath, then work on taking a deep breath and letting out 50%-85% of it

this will help you in competitions( if thats what your interested in)  it makes you able to think and shoot better running on less breath

also when you're in prone be sure to have your leg propped up as to not disturb your shot by your heart beat

and when shooting in competition its always fun to try and eject your hot shells onto the person shooting next to you

 

I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people



  Malachi1975

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/04
Posts: 1079

Common sense is no longer common.

7/29/07 3:04:33 AM#60

Originally posted by Urdig

 

Originally posted by WantsumBier

Gun, knife, sword, or what ever, you still have to get through my two fur covered ass eaters first!  That will give me the time to empty any assortment of rounds I feel like into your soft tissue.

To the poster up a couple. "stopping power" is a misnomer. The only real damage done by a bullet is the hole it makes, there may be some systemic shock created by the fluidic shock wave that proceeds the projectile, but it is minimal at best.  The FBI did a big study on it, and they even stated there are too many variables to take into consideration regarding what type or cal. of round is better.  They basicly came to the conclusion that the round that penetrates and destroys critical body parts is the best.  It could be .22 or .50, it is penatration and shot placement that counts.

A .22 round can bounce of a mans skull, and a .50 cal has to much recoil to be effective.

 

.22 is only deadly because it's tendency to ricochete off bone.  It enters one place and ends up bouncing around damaging organs.  It's also useless if you have to kill a man right now.

You're right.  The hole is what matters, and the bigger the exit wound the more damage is done and the less likely a person is going to keep moving; hence the term man stopper.  The .45 imlike the .22 or 9mm is designed to kill, not wound.  It's why the .45 is no longer used.  The hole it left behind was determined to be inhumane in a battle and a smaller caliber round, that did less damage was desired.  Placement means more when firing a 9mm then it doesn with a .45.  A 9 isn't going to take your arm off, a .45 can.


To the highlighted text, your generalisations on caliber are grossly overestimated. The cailber only has a portion to do with the recoil involved in the weapon. First, there are several ".50 cal" rounds. Those used by a handgun and by an M82A1 are completely different beasts. Second, the weapon from which said round is fired lends almost as much to the factoring of recoil as the round being fired itself. You'll note that the IMI Desert Eagle .50 Caliber fires with roughly the same amount of recoil as a Beretta 92SF due to it's gas-operation actions (usually a feature found in rifles) when fired (assuming you've had the chance to fire both weapons). I have fired a Ruger .357 that had more recoil than then DE .50 Cal. Yet again, a "smaller" cailber round that nearly dislocated my shoulder was the .454 Casul. Also, you shouldn't generalise the .22 caliber either as a single round. Are we talking .22 short, long rifle, high velocity, low velocity? The variations in speed are anywhere between 1000 f/s and 1400 f/s if I recall my velocities correctly. And as we all know V x M = F, so each variation of said round is going to have a different penetration value.

Also, the .45 was not removed for reasons that it was an inhumane round ( though, at one time the Geneva Conventions prohibited the firing of any round large than .50 caliber, or 12.5mm, at a human target...not sure if that is still in effect as the French field a tank with a 20mm coaxial gun) as much as boring/penetrating rounds, such as the .223, 5.56mm, and 9mm rounds, were abopted with the philosphy that 1 wounded man needed to be pulled off the field by 1-2 unwounded soldiers. The concept was to take more men out of the fight with a less lethal round. That's not to say that I agree with this concept, as it wasn't always the case. Often a "wounded" target would just fire from a prone position rather than be dragged off the field by an allied combatant. I prefer the overkill rounds when it comes to war...but that's a different debate.

"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

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