Originally posted by Thedrizzle

Originally posted by _Kyle_

It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.

As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

If you knew anything about games jackass, you'd realize they went that route with the graphics so that when 500 people are fighting another 500 people it wouldn't be a lag fest and your video card wouldn't be on fire.  Learn about computers and gaming before you make your half ass comments.

If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that  don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them.  More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host.  And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics.  Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com.    Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.

WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community.  The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass..  And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

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Originally posted by tdub

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Originally posted by Thedrizzle

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Originally posted by _Kyle_

It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

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If you knew anything about games jackass, you'd realize they went that route with the graphics so that when 500 people are fighting another 500 people it wouldn't be a lag fest and your video card wouldn't be on fire. Learn about computers and gaming before you make your half ass comments.

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If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them. More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host. And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics. Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com. Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.


WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community. The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass.. And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

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Another person who has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about.

Warhammer looks the way it does because it's based off the IP of Games Workshop. It's not meant to look like your average Korean anime or the plastic lifeless manikins you find in Vangaurd.

Mythic is making a game that Warhammer fans can identify with from what they've seen in the table top minatures.

If you don't understand I'd say stop posting now and just never speak of this game again.

P.S. Your Vangaurd statement is complete BS ! In fact you'd hard press to find 400-500 people logged onto Vangaurd right now. So yeah good luck with that ridiculous claim.

As for graphics, they did not have a choice and it has nothing to do with "lag."  The fact is, the textures and polycounts are going to be higher than in DAOC so that means more rendering and potentially more lag.  The reason why they went with the "cartoon" look is because that is how Warhammer looks.  Warcraft, a long time ago, ripped off Warhammer including the art style.  GW wants it to look like Warhammer so that means they have to keep the same style - cartoons.

As for using terrain it is possible even with the names on your head.  It should be displayed just above your head, so if you are in a tall amount of grass it won't be visable.  But I would look at it this way, unless you are short, it is not going to matter.  Big targets cannot be hidden by terrian even if there are no names.

It sounds like the OP wants a FPS and not an mmorpg.   In FPS it is about players controlling everything about their characters, you use terrain, you do not auto target/select a target, there is no "leveling up" or getting stat increases.  In mmorpgs, you level, you increase stats, you get items, you get new abilties, combat is based on stats and not if you can aim, etc. 

There was never intention to give a new way to "PvP" (BTW, if you intend on playing WAR you should get used to the term RvR because that it what it is and how they describe it.  PvP, for Mythic, is a FFA PvP where you can kill anyone at anytime.  RvR is realm versus realm and is just killing the enemy faction in specified areas).  They want a success and the more a game is like an FPS the less it appeals to traditional mmorpg players and therefore you will have less players. 

Originally posted by Corto

Looking forward to a new way of PvP.

However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...

Now I read this in the faq:

Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?

A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

 

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.

I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.

Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

 

 

Raven

Originally posted by tdub

 

If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that  don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them.  More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host.  And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics.  Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com.    Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.

  

WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community.  The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass..  And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

If you knew anything about MMOs you would know that most if not all the graphics (models, textures, particle FX) are on your PC waiting to be used... why? because they do not affect the game... The bandwidth is used to transfer the calculations, stats, area maps, mob/player locations. Graphics have ZERO affect on lag and everything to do with FRAME RATE.

The graphics as already mentioned are straight from GW and the table top game. The have spent EXTRA time on visuals to make sure players feel like they are in the Warhammer world. Obviously you know nothing about Warhammer and should just slither away now before you look even more like a tool.

As to your point about hardware. While you and I may have decent Boxes with top end graphic cards only about 10 - 15% of the population can say the same... So in your opinion you would alienate potentially 85 - 90% of your player base in NA... not to mention even more in Europe and Asia. Well no we know you are ignorant of how business works too.

So please respond with more inane drivel... I can smack you around all day until your brain cell starts firing again.

Originally posted by Raven99  

This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.

Raven

I agree it will not be like table top. How can it be really unless you are making an MMORTS. They have done a very good job of putting a warhammer skin on an MMO and using traditional types of characters from the table top game... As to the grief fest there will be some griefing I am sure... to say it will be any more rampant then other games is incorrect. I have no issue with griefing in WAR... it brings out the true nature of table top... having 20 ironbreakers smash into 30 or 40 goblins watching them break and taking half of the goblin/orc army with them is classic warhammer. If you played the old school rules and not the watered down kiddie rules now when you could make your own magic weapons based on points... I had a choas wizard general that had 10 str and 10 attacks doing 1d3 wounds per attack... Watching him smack into a squad and 1 shotting a champion then taking out 9 other models breaking the unit single handedly was classic Warhammer... As far as tactics... 75% of the kiddies today playing Warhammer have no clue about tactics... It is all about the special characters now and the 99% fodder you put around them for color.

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Originally posted by Raven99

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Originally posted by Corto

Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics. Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops, hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?

A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's. Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels). This is so un-warhammer-like. In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly). I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

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This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.

Raven

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There are many mechanism in place to prevent griefing in this game. If you don't want to PvP but still want to advance your character then just stay in the PvE areas of the game. They are there for those who don't want to PvP 100% of the time.

Of course this is a PvP centric MMO and the biggest rewards will usually be in PvP end game portions for the most part. If you want a PvE centric title I'd suggest you stay clear of this game.

"I had a choas wizard general that had 10 str and 10 attacks doing 1d3 wounds per attack... Watching him smack into a squad and 1 shotting a champion then taking out 9 other models breaking the unit single handedly was classic Warhammer... As far as tactics... 75% of the kiddies today playing Warhammer have no clue about tactics... It is all about the special characters now and the 99% fodder you put around them for color."

 Reading that made me laugh :) looks like it was quite a bit as much about the special character for you as it is for todays kiddies.

Originally posted by evil13

"I had a choas wizard general that had 10 str and 10 attacks doing 1d3 wounds per attack... Watching him smack into a squad and 1 shotting a champion then taking out 9 other models breaking the unit single handedly was classic Warhammer... As far as tactics... 75% of the kiddies today playing Warhammer have no clue about tactics... It is all about the special characters now and the 99% fodder you put around them for color."

 Reading that made me laugh :) looks like it was quite a bit as much about the special character for you as it is for todays kiddies.

Yes and no... The warlords in old school warhammer were nasty no doubt but they were equal... You could only spend so much on your warlords, the items they could have were generic, A bad played warlord could die easily. If my warlord that I mentioned had walked up to that unit without support on the next turn 2 units would be on him and my beast of a warlord would be dead in 1 turn.

Today with the special characters... the lizard men throne toad comes to mind... They CAN charge head first into an army with no support and never be touched. They have special abilities that no other character on the board can have. Some of which are WAY over powered. Most players could spend hours throwing their army at these special characters and unless lucky will not even kill them.

The game is vastly different, but that does not mean old school was not nasty blood thirsty throw down fights. BTW... that magic item on my wizard... we eventually agreed to stop using it... Both sides would have it and eventually it came down to which general could kill the other one off first... even when one did die the other was so banged up he pretty much spent time in the back doing nothing.

Classic WH you could have an arms race that got so nasty players agreed to back it off... Today it is special character FoM and what overpowered crap he can use to decimate your army.

Originally posted by Kalmarth

I'm sorry to say this but you just discribed a FPS, Using Tactis is a must, Terrain 100% of you game play is knowing the lay out and where to get the best shots from, seeing peoples names, only when you get the kill does this come up, Flanking, goes back to Tactics and Squad based play, your not looking for an MMO your looking for an FPS, I recommend BF2, run with a good Clan and you will do nothing but smile.

The warhammer p&p rpg had one of the best rules systems and did not include levelling.  An ideal and unique concept which really might make an MMORPG revolutionary.

As it stands now, a level 10 char cannot beat a level 40.  So at least he should have the option to travel offroads, being able to hide in forests to avoid the level 40 enemies camping the main road or such...

Originally posted by jor8888

 

its same as daoc u wont see enemy's names until they are right next to u. 

 

 

Aha that would already be something.

Just to clarify:

With my OP i didn't mean to start a discussion about the 'cartoonish' look of the gfx (everybody his own preference, no need/use to argue), merely the functionality of terrain grafix and tagging for PvP. 

I just hope it wont merely be a question of bashing at the enemy with as many maxed out characters as possible.  Of course strength of numbers and army-organisation are important in any battle, but using (terrain &) other features should make it possible for an understrength army to defeat a more numerous enemy.

As someone in the thread pointed out, It seems that they are just trying to even the numbers and levels of chars on both sides and making the fights instanced.  Fingers crossed that the game has some nice mechanisms to make the out-of-instance-PvP worthwhile.

I look forward to seeing how this game combines elements of the warhammer rpg with the warhammer wargame.  I hope they succeed in making it a unique PvP-RPG (not neglecting the PvE-part).

I will certainly be trying this game.

Completely without adding anything, this topic once more shows how little people know about Warhammer, its Universe, the way it looks, the way it's deliberately created ( Posh people wasn't an invention by Paul Barnett, they are _based_ on them ) and especially about their own reasons why they refuse to play it.

Originally posted by Dubaz

Completely without adding anything, this topic once more shows how little people know about Warhammer, its Universe, the way it looks, the way it's deliberately created ( Posh people wasn't an invention by Paul Barnett, they are _based_ on them )

 

I'm sorry for my topic lol.  I thought this was a WAR-related forum and I could ask questions about the game here.

Also, if you have nothing to add, why post?

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Originally posted by daelnor
I honestly haven't followed this game very closely, but I would put money down that if mythic is developing it, it will be a solid pvp game. However, with EA in the mix...I dunno. If EA sits, back, shuts the hell up and just hands the money over it should be a good game. If they interfere, then the potential of the game spirals downwards rapidly.

D.

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Havent heard that said before......

Originally posted by Bladin

 

Originally posted by Corto

Looking forward to a new way of PvP.

However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...

Now I read this in the faq:

Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?

A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

 

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.

I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.

Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

 

 

My only comment is about your issue with names.

 

WAR is about WAR, this isn't a game where your going to be hiding behind trees, stealth killing people running around... You'll be too busy being in a battle to the death, and you hiding behind some tree/edge is just going to make your team suck.

The number one most wanted character type is that of an assassin, people want the stealth, people want the suprise, the ability to get and out picking people off, before a mob auto targets you . Terrain comes into effect there and names above heads dont help.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Raven99  

This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.

Raven

I agree it will not be like table top. How can it be really unless you are making an MMORTS. They have done a very good job of putting a warhammer skin on an MMO and using traditional types of characters from the table top game... As to the grief fest there will be some griefing I am sure... to say it will be any more rampant then other games is incorrect. I have no issue with griefing in WAR... it brings out the true nature of table top... having 20 ironbreakers smash into 30 or 40 goblins watching them break and taking half of the goblin/orc army with them is classic warhammer. If you played the old school rules and not the watered down kiddie rules now when you could make your own magic weapons based on points... I had a choas wizard general that had 10 str and 10 attacks doing 1d3 wounds per attack... Watching him smack into a squad and 1 shotting a champion then taking out 9 other models breaking the unit single handedly was classic Warhammer... As far as tactics... 75% of the kiddies today playing Warhammer have no clue about tactics... It is all about the special characters now and the 99% fodder you put around them for color.

I have a big problem with griefing, and I think the RvR environment will encourage this. If its the true nature of the table top then its going to be in the game. It looks like its going to be Mob A vs Mob B all pressing the shortcut for auto target, or all on a voice chat saying "lets kill him" - "who?" - "him! - can't you see the name above his head!". Its grief and therefore a grind if the repetitive nature is too do it all over and over again. Granted its probably fun for the first few goes. With the 75% of kiddies playing as you said having no clue about tactics (lets face it - this is th target audience) and mobs rushing at each other, (fun to watch im sure) will lose the tactics and similarites of the table top. Battles like table top just wont happen 90% of the time like they usually play out.

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Originally posted by Fsuparker
Kalmarth... wow man that is kind of a stupid thing to say if you ask me.
Yes you do need to use tactics in FPS, and yes BF2 is a good game and all, but you should have to use tactics in an MMO PVP, it is stupid to go with the flow of all of these other games, where it comes down to what do u have equiped over how good you are as a player, and how well u can sneak up on someone
Terrain should be a major factor, of course along with your ability to use it to your advantage

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IMO, I thought daoc pvp was very terrain/range dependant.

Ever been hit by a scout that was hiding in tall grass from full range and FROM BEHIND?

Hopefully we can count on Mythic to do some of the same things in WAR.

Originally posted by Raven99

Originally posted by Corto

Looking forward to a new way of PvP.

However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...

Now I read this in the faq:

Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?

A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

 

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.

I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.

Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

 

 

This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.

 

Raven

Originally posted by tdub

 

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

Originally posted by _Kyle_

It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.

As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

If you knew anything about games jackass, you'd realize they went that route with the graphics so that when 500 people are fighting another 500 people it wouldn't be a lag fest and your video card wouldn't be on fire.  Learn about computers and gaming before you make your half ass comments.

If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that  don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them.  More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host.  And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics.  Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com.    Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.

 

 

WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community.  The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass..  And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

This is clearly one of the 99.0001% of the time that you dont know what you are talking about, as stated in your very own sig =)

I have dual core, 4 gig of Ram, and an 8800.  I lag in PvP in Vanguard when too many players get on screen.. and by too many I mean about 20, not 300.