Originally posted by SmileyMan

I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If it a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.

Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron.  From the point of view of his nick of course.

Originally posted by Reklaw

South Korea will exceed $2.0 billion in 2007

Taiwan, inclusive of MMORPG and casual games will exceed $300 million in 2007

China's online game market will grow 35 percent and reach $1.3 Billion in 2007.

Basicly seeing that the only " real " succes from the west has been WoW and BC over there. I doubt they gonna change (much) in how they make games.

Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.

Dear Korean Developers : No more MMOs please

Originally posted by tunabun

 

Originally posted by SmileyMan

I'm not going to study another culture, just because I want to enjoy a game. If it a game demands that I study the culture it was made in, before I can enjoy it, then fuck that game.

 

Is it just me or is this guy an Oxymoron.  From the point of view of his nick of course.

Yep.

WoW, SWG, Guild Wars and CoH/V have point-and-click also.  I use it in very laggy areas in WoW and in Guild wars its great for the really curvy paths.  I call it AFK travel.  Point-and-click has nothing to do with success.

Originally posted by SmileyMan

 

Originally posted by Reklaw

South Korea will exceed $2.0 billion in 2007

Taiwan, inclusive of MMORPG and casual games will exceed $300 million in 2007

China's online game market will grow 35 percent and reach $1.3 Billion in 2007.

Basicly seeing that the only " real " succes from the west has been WoW and BC over there. I doubt they gonna change (much) in how they make games.

 

Don't throw around with big numbers without providing a valid source.

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/c55216

http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSSHA27160820070628

Originally posted by Signe

Originally posted by Cybeldia12

Originally posted by TwilightEdge

Maybe they make point and click movement 'cuz asian gamers prefer it that way?

Korean MMO developers are gonna have to target us. Korea is to obsessed with Starcraft right now. I swear it is like their national religion. Oh, and by the way OP city of heroes is Korean.

 CoH isn't Korean.  It was made by Cryptic Studios in California.  NCsoft is a Korean company but they also have a big Austin, TX office.  NCsoft published CoH, they didn't make it.  In fact, I think the Korean version of CoH didn't even launch until almost two years after the US version.

I don't mind point and click too much, but I prefer WASD.  Actually, I like having the choice of either in games.

ok yes I understand. Sorry I made a mistake, but NCsoft is still a korean company non the less which mean I bet korea still has some influence on the game. The OP left a nice little message in my inbox about this topic. I

I'm the OP and I did not leave you a message.  Must be someone else hehe.

I don't think it's east prefer this, we prefer that...

Point and click also saves alot of network and server processing compared to WASD. Running around with a WASD client you need to send left-forward-forward-left-left-etc messages to the server while Point and click only need to know your original position and your destination. Most F2P games are usually quite laggy in central areas...

I believe that Icelandic space game uses point and click as well. Probably because they can do big epic battles without lag that way. Or maybe Iceland is just a "different culture" as well?

I kinda agree. The game may well be developed in Asia, but when they set up U.S. servers and want US players to enjoy it, WASD movement is a big plus. There are a number of people (like me) here who won't even try to enjoy the game if you have to point and click to move... Not saying that that is right, but its the truth. So if they are interested in being sucessful here, not having WASD movement is a negative.

And about the guy who posted the revenue... Who cares? Obviouslythey want the game to be sucessful in America or else they would not have the game here. So we are a big enough market for them to care apparently.

Me, personally, don't care for games made in Asia. Not because they are made in Asia, but because they have different views on what is enjoyable in a game. And 99% of the time, my views contradict with theirs.

Im not a big fan of the Korean style MMORPGs either.  I favor the WASD movement keys, but I do come from a FPS background so it is more natural to me.  Most of these kind of games are target and click an  auto attack. I understand that, and each system has advantages and disadvantages.  I will say that the biggest disadvantage of mouse movement to me is the lack of a jump function. 

As MMORPGs progress though, the mouse move system may have difficulty.  I cant imagine it working very well in the kind of combat Age Of Conan is bringing.

My biggest concerns about the Korean MMORPGs though, is lack of custimization for the avatars (appearance and skills), the unimaginitive quests (collect 100 bear paws, now collect 100 bear pelts etc.), and the pathing of the characters.  Why take the time to animate vast beautiful landscapes, and make 50% of the area unavailable.  You see a wonderfully animated stand of bamboo in the distance that you want to explore, but your character cant get there because its off the designated path.  Everywhere you want to go, you hit that dreaded invisble wall and  your toon just stands there running and butting their heads against it.

Im not a developer or a programmer, so I dont know, but it seems that its almost a cheap way out of actually designing a fully immersive 3D world , becuase your your actually just following very narrow corridors. 

Ive had some fun with the f2p games, and i do try most of them too.  I actually enjoyed the Silkroad Online beta, even though I'm not, and will not be a subcsriber.  But personally Id rather pay for a more western style MMORPG.

Wow.

I came into this topic thinking there would be a decent discussion going on about the differences between click-to-move and wasd movements but I guess I was hoping for too much on these forums. People need to stop being so negative about every damn game released that isn't perfect for them. Sure you can have your opinion but to go as far as saying all Korean MMO's aren't as good as Western MMO's because YOU played a couple games, it's just ignorant and not really needed. There are alot of games out there made by non-American companies that 90% of Americans haven't even heard of so before you begin bashing any of them without any form of valid reason you might want to get over yourself.

Like stated before in a previous post, I think one of the main reasons for using click-to-move rather then wasd is because many people people play their games at a netcafe and would like to smoke and play at the same time (may it be grinding or pvp). I also think that if you use wasd movements in a game with a longer grind, you're going to atleast get a few people trying to run bots. There are probably other reasons for having a click-to-move system in place but I don't really think that it concerns any of those bashing these games because they aren't played by you, they're played by the people who are the targeted players.

I'm not going to sit here and preach anti American crap but please in future because you request such a change in a game maybe you would want to think about why it isn't in the game to begin with, only then will you understand that your opinion is only just that.

I can't stand wasd; it's such a limited system. Point and click is so much better. WASD is such a bad system, it is not convenient to interact with the community.

With point and click I can move, run somewhere and chat at the same time. As soon as I hit the keyboard it writes to the chat; so I can do everything at the same time : select a destination place - move - fight - cast spells - chat.

With WASD I have to stop what I am doing (can't move), then I need to hit RETURN or click on the chat window, and then I can chat. But while chatting I can't do anything else.

As I am used to point & click what happens everytime I play a wasd game ? Everytime I want to chat I start typing on the keyboard and then I get DOZENS of windows (inventory, stats, etc...) poping up in my face because I forget to hit return or to click on the chat window. This is so lame.

For me point and click is the superior system. The Fn keys are used for the skills/abilities/shortcuts and the keyboard is for chatting. I could understand WASD in a solo single player game, but not in an MMORPG. MMOs are for community interaction. Being paralyzed while chatting is ridiculous.

Geez, you are in a difficult fight, about to die, and to shout for help you need to stop everything you are doing to type on the keyboard, so you die. Yes, WASD is that bad.

I find point and click is only really useful for strategy type of games where you need to select multiple characters.  Baldur's Gate and other Infinity Engine games are good examples of being able to control a small group like a mini RTS.

WASD is far better as far as making the world feel more realistic.  You can jump, swim underwater, and in general interact better with the world around you. 

People say that is only important in a FPS, but when you are making a massive world for lots of people you want it to feel as real as possible.  WASD gives you more freedom with the ability to go up and down instead of just moving accross a 3D map done in a 2D style.

I never had any problem with typing text really.  I could hit auto run if I really wanted to talk.  Most of the time it's difficult to type during heated combat no matter what system you are using. 

Originally posted by BigMango

I can't stand wasd; it's such a limited system. Point and click is so much better. WASD is such a bad system, it is not convenient to interact with the community.

With point and click I can move, run somewhere and chat at the same time. As soon as I hit the keyboard it writes to the chat; so I can do everything at the same time : select a destination place - move - fight - cast spells - chat.

With WASD I have to stop what I am doing (can't move), then I need to hit RETURN or click on the chat window, and then I can chat. But while chatting I can't do anything else.

As I am used to point & click what happens everytime I play a wasd game ? Everytime I want to chat I start typing on the keyboard and then I get DOZENS of windows (inventory, stats, etc...) poping up in my face because I forget to hit return or to click on the chat window. This is so lame.

 

For me point and click is the superior system. The Fn keys are used for the skills/abilities/shortcuts and the keyboard is for chatting. I could understand WASD in a solo single player game, but not in an MMORPG. MMOs are for community interaction. Being paralyzed while chatting is ridiculous.

Geez, you are in a difficult fight, about to die, and to shout for help you need to stop everything you are doing to type on the keyboard, so you die. Yes, WASD is that bad.

 

 

I don't necesarilly (Yes I know I spelled that wrong but firefox isn't give me any suggestions so screw it) agree with everything that you said but the having to stop completely to talk is one of the biggest problems that I have with WASD.

Originally posted by ColdSun

I'm the OP and I did not leave you a message.  Must be someone else hehe.

Oh, well...... I am glad it wasn't you. you seem like an ok person.

Well I think the problem is that adding WASD movement is easier said then done. A game is build on an engine, and if that engine is customized for Point & click movement, adding WASD is more difficult and vice versa. Ofcourse its only my opinion, but every point & click game that added WASD movement (such as Lineage 2 and RF Online) has poor WASD movement, and often its not even an option because the WASD movement is so sluggish. The same goes for WASD movement based games that try to add Point & Click, such as WoW. its just sluggish.

I love how people are putting there 2cents in like some one is going to read it and listen to them lol tbh the korean's dont' want us playing there games anyways alot of there games you have to have KSSN.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Well I think the problem is that adding WASD movement is easier said then done. A game is build on an engine, and if that engine is customized for Point & click movement, adding WASD is more difficult and vice versa. Ofcourse its only my opinion, but every point & click game that added WASD movement (such as Lineage 2 and RF Online) has poor WASD movement, and often its not even an option because the WASD movement is so sluggish. The same goes for WASD movement based games that try to add Point & Click, such as WoW. its just sluggish.

No you can't put WASD movement into a point and click game and make it work well IMO.  Point and Click engines are made in a 2D movement style.  There is no moving up and down and you don't look from the 2nd person perspective which is slightly behind the person.  There is nothing really wrong with point and click as I said, but it limits your ability to truely utilize your 3D enviroment.

If they are making money off point and click grind fests than they will keep making them. No reason for them to fix what isn't broken.