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(I think this is awesome even though I have no intention to play SWG, nor anything affiliated with SOE and/or Lucas Arts.) http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=379674
So after much internal discussion based on all the feedback from this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=375011 we've decided change directions a little bit. We realize a lot of you would want a species respec but it's not going to happen. It's a non-trivial technological hurdle firstly. Secondly, many of us are just plain philosophically opposed to the idea. If you shave a Wookiee and give it blue contact lenses you still have a Wookiee. The other large bone of contention is from Traders who may or may not have chosen their race based on certain crafting bonuses in the past. Had they known that X-species would have had a good bonus to X-craft they would have chosen that species instead. And yes, we also understand you don't want JTL bonuses too so expect the removal of all of those. So based on this feedback we have decided to take a different approach. We will allow everyone to select a background based on an Origin. So essentially you could have been raised by Wookiees, or learned to fight from Trandoshans and went to school on Bothawui. The end result is you will have a choice in what you get based on your origins. So all existing species mods will go away and you will choose the ones that suit your character. |
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6/22/07 10:07:17 PM#2
Originally posted by mindspat
Throws the RP'ers a bone! That's an interesting idea. And i just sorta chuckle at SOE telling the fanbase wanting something unrealistic to can it. Bravo! |
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6/22/07 11:45:52 PM#3
Originally posted by iceman00 Maybe. But thats only if most of the people on that game roleplay. A lot of them don't. Most of them pvp. If you read other peoples concerns further in the thread it also brings up some complications. Now people will be less unique when it comes to fighters. Everyone will pick the same thing. So in a sense they just killed uniqueness more than added. They made it awesome for flavor of the month types. "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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6/23/07 11:59:04 AM#4
Actually this way makes quite a bit of sense...maybe someday I will re-up with these kind of changes! :)
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6/23/07 1:46:58 PM#5
Originally posted by ArcheusCross
Yup, they've just insured that every serious PvPer will have the same "racial traits". You know, when this game first came out, Wooks couldn't wear armor. Why? Because originally they were supposed to have innate armor (which is a canonical thing) and wouldn't need to wear any. But then the devs realized that the serious combat types would all choose to be Wookiees, for the armor advantage, and you'd have Star Wars Galaxies Wookieeworld, instead of Star Wars Galaxies Pokemon. Even the Imperial inclined players would have Wook toons even though it makes no sense at all from an RP perspective for any Wookiee to be an Imperial, unless they're slaves of some other Imperial. So, in their brilliance, they nerfed the inate armor of the Wookiees, but didnt' give them wearable armor to compensate, and Wookiees were racially disadvantaged in combat! Remember all the Wookiee protests that caused such tumult, with them demanding armor? Eventually they got wearable armor, but then you had the "armor hole" thing for the Wookiees and the Trandoshans... What did we see in early in the game? Lots of PvPers being Zabraks due to the equilibrium bonus, which became critical as the importance of the "unhealable pool" became known. I saw something once in a sig where it was asserted that most Zabraks were "gamer" players, while a Mon Cal toon was most likely the avatar of a role player. CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested. Once a denizen of Ahazi |
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AbasiMalone
Apprentice Member
Joined: 6/23/07
Get busy livin, or get busy dyin." -Red Redding |
6/23/07 2:21:44 PM#6
I think it sounds great. Why would you not want race and class specific bonuses in a game? It's part of what defines your character. And don't some of the bonuses balance each other out? So what if they are slowly rolling the game back and adding a lot of pre NGE stuff. Isn't that what a lot of players want? Face it, there is not going to be a massive pre cu rollback. But if they follow this model and add previous features that people liked, that shows they are finally listening to the player base's concerns.
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6/23/07 3:37:38 PM#7
Originally posted by AbasiMalone
..pathetic
nevertheless... nice feature
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AbasiMalone
Apprentice Member
Joined: 6/23/07
Get busy livin, or get busy dyin." -Red Redding |
6/23/07 4:05:14 PM#8
Originally posted by Mr.Wizard Again, you are not going to rollback time to pre 2005. You guys are like Uncle Rico in Napleon Dynamite. "Man I wish I could go back to 1982." I don't think they are trying to charm anyone into anything. They are moving forward. Beast Master makes sense. People seem to like any sort of pet system. The system itself is pretty deep and everyone has just scratched the surface. Race and class bonuses also make sense. If you don't like the game now, then move on. Go play EVE if you like the sandbox style. Guess what guys? I like the NGE!! I like Jar Jar Binks! I like episodes 1-3. I'm having a blast on that game. Go cry in the corner while we destroy all your houses!!!!! BWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA. |
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6/23/07 6:07:10 PM#9
but of course they arent trying to get vets back... no.. why else would they recycle old things.. they're coming up with something new indeed..hm, re-inventing the wheel possibly?
Well ,im no vet, not really unless you call 1.5 years in this game long Have fun packing up houses, i've done some myself nice rewards as well
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6/23/07 8:28:04 PM#10
Originally posted by AbasiMalone I hate to say the famous line but, "you are in the wrong forum." Thanks. Oh!!!! And while you destroy those houses you will soon realize how many actually left. Mr FOTM. "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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6/24/07 12:49:41 AM#11
Originally posted by Mr.Wizard After trying and failing all of last year to attract new players, SOE is now focusing on trying to trick former players into resubscribing. They even tried to bribe former players with an in game item, but the current players whined and moaned enough that they ended up getting it too. The rest of this year will be spent on adding horribly distorted versions of things the NGE removed, in an attempt to attract back former players. It'll be interesting to see what they try when that fails too. The folks at LucasArts will probably let SOE merge servers by then. |
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6/24/07 10:19:12 PM#12
Originally posted by Obee Merging the servers is WAY overdue. I mean, come on, what is the point of keeping all the servers when no one is playing? |
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haxxjoo
Novice Member
Joined: 5/11/05
You have destroyed your forums with stupid censorship and I no longer view your opinions as unbiast. |
6/25/07 10:28:36 AM#13
I thought NGE Players didn't complain about changes and we where the whiners? That thread reads like a Napa Valley phone book. Whiner after whiner. Waa... I need a species respec. Waa... give me bonus points that I can use. Waa... that is unbalanced. You'd think someone stole there bottle. Um, its beta guys. What do you expect a working video game? This is soe where talking about. Next thing you know Vulcans will show up as a playable race. |
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Chessack
Novice Member
Joined: 4/12/05
"You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." -- Musashi |
6/25/07 1:10:43 PM#14
Originally posted by SioBabble The fundamental problem here is, they never have figured out how to balance the game -- never once in all these years. In fact the more they have tried to balance it, the worse and more imbalanced it has become. True throughout pre-CU, CU, and now NGE. C |
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6/25/07 4:44:48 PM#15
Originally posted by ArcheusCross Actually I think he's got a valid point. You can't scream "wrong forum, stfun00b" just because he poitns out something incredibly valid. We are not going to see a "turn back the clock." Some people in these forums want Sony to burn. Others want the game back. And others (such as myself) are somewhere in between. But the rest of the stuff about him liking Jar-Jar and the prequels, yeah, not gonna even try and defend that, anyone who boasts of their love for jar jar deserves a public hanging rofl. |
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6/25/07 4:49:18 PM#16
Originally posted by Chessack Because "balance" is truly a myth. Balance is what aloser cries after someone with some intelligence pwns him. "Balance" is what someone cries when they want to fight every PvP battle one on one. About the only time balance is an issue is where the reward of something is not matched by the risk of the profession. Jedi for example were quickly becoming more prominent and still had power, but there was no real risk to being one, as the population continued to whine once more and more people (sorry for saying this, but less than 2% of the galaxies players deserved being jedi) felt they were entitled to pwn. They also were shortsighted in their balance. They attempted to balance profs solely for the aspect of PvP, forgetting that there was PvE as well. (Think of the nerfs putting your damage dealing jedis and rifleman at a huge advantage, who could camp a spawn, wait until the mob was almost dead, then rush in and outdamage someone.) Just like in civics and economics, whenever someone wants to provide balance and "level the playing field", that person should be watched carefully, and no power should be given to him. |
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6/26/07 12:36:25 AM#17
You have to learn to read Dev-Speak. To begin you must put yourself in the mindset of a SWG Dev. Repeat this to yourself five times: "You are the greatest. No one is better than you. You are smarter and better looking than all of the dirty peons that pay you money for the privilege of playing your game and reading your enlightened posts." Now go back and read that paragraph and see what jumps out at you like it did me: "Secondly, many of us are just plain philosophically opposed to the idea." Now does that not just ooze arrogance. "WE are opposed to it for purely philosophical reasons, so that means that YOU don't get to have things your way. Who do you think you are?? A paying customer?" Some things never change. From day one there were two excuses that you'd hear from the Devs about why something couldn't be done. 1) It wasn't technologically possible or 2) It was against their vision aka philosophy aka crack smoking induced hallucination, of how the game should be. Pardon me, but I think I remember learning in like the 6th grade that to be successful a company has to please it's customers. I don't care about your vision or your philosophy! I don't care if you think Trandoshans are just Wookies with their hair shaved! I'm a paying customer, me and about 250k other people, and we want the game left alone. We don't want it changed, we want it FIXED. So why in the name of all that's holy do you think we'll keep playing and more importantly PAYING, if you keep telling us what we want is impossible and to just suck it up and stop crying? |
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6/26/07 12:49:18 AM#18
The SWG devs tried to balance not just on the basis of PvP, but on the basis of the duel, and Iceman00 is absolutely right, the cries for nerf were predicated nearly every time on some self imagined uberleet d00d getting pwned by someone else. The cries of "nerf CM!" were nearly always from PvP melee stackers who saw their perfect templates had a fatal flaw, and because they lost in one on one encounters with no medical backup, obviously CMs were overpowered. CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested. Once a denizen of Ahazi |
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6/26/07 3:40:40 AM#19
Originally posted by ArcheusCross Indeed. Think about it: When all those abandoned houses are removed, you'll then see an empty landscape and realize how few players there are left in SWG. That'll be pure comedy! "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918) |
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Chessack
Novice Member
Joined: 4/12/05
"You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." -- Musashi |
6/26/07 12:43:04 PM#20
Originally posted by iceman00
Yup. You are absolutely right. Which is why the more they kept trying to "balance" it the worse it got. Too often, they 'balanced' things in pairwise fashion... that is, in a BH/Rifleman duel, some thing gives the BH a clear advantage, making it so that in a one-on-one fight, the BH will always win if he has/does/uses that thing. So they nerf that thing... meanwhile, without it, the BH will lose every duel to a pistoleer... So now they have to nerf the pistoleer... but that means now the pistoleer can't beat a TKA... so now they nerf TKA. Everything was done this way... in stupid, short-sighted little idiot steps, just to address a single shortcoming of a single pairwise case. When you have 30+ professions, many of them interdependent, who are capable of forming groups of up to 20, and hunting in PVE, and having 10 on 10 fights, trying to do this sort of pairwise balancing is disaster. However, it is also the case that some things did not completely work balance-wise. To get an idea what I mean, you can take a look at the old game Champions. No two powers were identical, but powers always balanced. For 5 points of cost, you always did 1D6 of normal damage. If you wanted to do "armor piercing" damage, it always cost 50% more (because a single D6 of AP would effectively do 50% more damage, on average). If you wanted to increase range, you did so at the cost of D6. You could double the range of a 50 point power, but now instead of doing 10D6 it only did 5D6. So there were trade-offs. The original, launch, version of SWG was built around the idea of such balances but they didn't entirely work. So the idea was supposed to be that a pistol fired every second and did 10 damage per shot (just making up sample numbers), while a carb fired every 2 seconds and did 20 damage per shot, and a rifle fired every 4 seconds and did 40 damage per shot. Over 4 seconds, they all do 40 damage (in theory) but they fire at different rates. Then you had different resistances, so heat guns vs. heat resistant animals, etc, were a part of the balance. Again, that's how it was supposed to work. Now the problem was that the system had some mistakes in their numbers, and some actual bugs (where the planned numbers were right but where the gun was not doing the damage it was supposed to, or something). If they had fixed those, the game would've been fine. But instead of doing that, the incompetent devs (with Koster no longer around to patiently explain the balance of the system to them) just started either buffing or nerfing one thing here, one thing there. This threw everything out of whack. They also did not correctly test for and extrapolate out what would happen if someone, say, sliced a krayt pistol made of 999 quality stuff, and ended up being "surprised" at how good these weapons were (and thereafter, nerfing the hell out of them). So... yes, the idea of perfect balance is a myth. But one can do conceptual balancing... fast, low damage... medium speed/damage... slow/high damage... Yes in a given duel one guy or another is at a disadvantage (if Pistol Boy can get his 4 shots off and cap Rifle Boy before Rifle Boy squeezes off his first shot, the fact that rifle and pistol do the same total damage after 4 seconds is irrelevant to Rifle Boy), but in the big picture things are balanced. Or at least they were close to balanced if they had all worked as designed. The problem is that since things did not work as designed, and since players screaming for "balance" and devs trying to provide it only looked at pairwise "duel" cases of "this guy always pwns that guy", they just kept making it worse by trying to "fix" it and "balance" it. C |
but i still dislike the nge. Blame the vets (actually a few fellow guildmembers and some other peeps) for that cause they showed me how the "real" SWG was. Not a standard MMO with a SW skin
