They need to make an MMORPG that is about more than just repetitive combat and crafting. Getting out of the classes box, or at least changing it up some to include other skills.

In classic PnP rpg's, your character (hopefully) consists of more than just maximized stats to provide maximum DPS. In fact, sometimes people purposefully make characters who are average, or even below average in stats, for a purpose. Otherwise known as "gimped".

How about a skill system that relies on more than just combat and crafting? Charisma, charming, influencing npc's. Talking your way into the door instead of breaking it down with a sword.

Instead of running in with your barbarian axe of +5 everything, why not use a grappling hook + climbing skill to sneak into the castle at night, sneak past the guards with stealth vs perception, sneak into the king's chamber, and BAM! assassinate him because he failed a wakeup perception check. Since there are no psychic guards, you sneak out undetected, fulfilling a quest that actually EFFECTS THE WORLD. Maybe only the most highly skilled PC's can do such a feat (and luck allows them to succeed) and it drastically changes the world. The new king is evil and raises taxes for everyone. The GM of the server has a hay-day and starts new lore, along with already-made quests to add, creating a "Evil King takes over" script. Once made, anytime the GM of the server wants, he can just change everything back to "Evil King takes over."

A world that is ever-changing based on player-action, as well as a "GM of the server." whose 8 hour job is to spice things up, pick which scripts/quests/style to run, and what to do, as well as hold special events. Orcs attack the village? Initiate "Orcs Attack" Script. Orcs win over the NPC's and Players? Initiate "Village Burn" Script. Everyone in the "Village" zone goes into a loading screen, which shows a cinematic of a burning village, screaming, or whatever (Like LOTR cinematics once a main quest is completeed) and the village zone turns into the "Village Burned" graphics and scripting.

Even if it's repetitive, the fact you have multiple and changing scripts, it's better than what you currently have and is less repetition than currently. Players will say things such as "Oh I love when the city burns. I love the quests and the lore." or "I love it when the city is built up very strong and hasn't been destroyed for awhile. That way I can set up my shop to sell to more NPC's, since the economy is better and population higher!"

This wouldn't be an overwhelming task for the "GM of the server" as long as he had a nice GUI to manage everything. The scripts, textures (Town, Burnt Town, Town Level 2, City Level 1, etc) quests, etc. are already in the game. He just flips it over if required (such as choosing the new king.)

Maybe sometimes the GM of the server chooses an outstanding individual or leader (PLAYER) to be the king. Maybe sometimes he chooses to use one of the NPC's (Generous King, Harsh King, Lazy King, Evil King) or maybe he decided to flip it over to a npc democracy, or a player democracy, or a player-npc democracy. All solely based on the actions of Players and NPC groups.

Before I write too much, these are just my ideas.

What a better resource to use than the PLAYER COMMUNITY?

You have a large, vass amount of players in your playerbase (Massively Multiplayer for a reason.)
You have plenty of them that are "hardcore" enough to create their own quests, scripts, or even graphics and "submit" them for approval.

What kind of MMO would it be if the players not only helped improve the game, but after a long period of time, actually MADE the game "the game it is today"?

MMO's could harness the power of FREE content to add. All they'd need do is create a nice tool (Check out NWN's tool)

The fact that NWN has already done this is amazing enough on its own. Imagine if a "GM of the server" or a "GrandMaster of the game" reviewed player content and actually ADDED it into the game? Player based quests created BY players, FOR players.

Instead of "Kill 5 rats." you would get incredibly elaborate quests made entirely from individuals, small teams, or even guilds grouping together to form content. TALENTED content too! Just provide the tools, have a team to scan through the content (only allowing good content to pass through.)

The company gets players to improve the game, and the PLAYERS actually PAY THE COMPANY money to do so! Not only is it free extra content, it's GOOD content, and it's more than free, they actually get PAYED cause it's an MMO! lol

Imagine a game with a population like DAoC creating content. Right now at this very moment, they have 5500 NA players online at 5:30PM (Central) Imagine their actual playerbase. Now imagine how many of those people would create content. You cut out the crap (Theres bound to be content that is absolutely crap.) and filter in the good stuff. Of all that's submitted, a small percent is bound to be amazing. Multiply the numbers of an MMO's population and you're bound to get a lot of amazing quests, a TON of good quests, and an infinite supply of quests slightly better than "Kill 5 rats".

Imagine with a population like LOTRO or even WoW.
Heck, just look at NWN1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add this player-created content to an already-amazing MMORPG, and it skyrockets from the box of "DPS Tank Healer, You're not a hero, you're Rat-Population Control, You can't change the world" mentality, and go into an entirely different MMO concept. One based on more than just combat (skills that actually do things!!!) an alterable world, a "GM of the server", an ever-changing world, and player-created content ON TOP of already-good content.

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

What a better resource to use than the PLAYER COMMUNITY?

You have a large, vass amount of players in your playerbase (Massively Multiplayer for a reason.)
You have plenty of them that are "hardcore" enough to create their own quests, scripts, or even graphics and "submit" them for approval.

What kind of MMO would it be if the players not only helped improve the game, but after a long period of time, actually MADE the game "the game it is today"?

very good, but I want to kill the King you just killed too...

You see my point ? One day you will find 20 assasins trying to kill the same king

Even better, if player had too much power in a mmo world it would be utterly destroyed shortly.... Trust me, I would even be be the one doing it or even helping the process

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

What a better resource to use than the PLAYER COMMUNITY?

You have a large, vass amount of players in your playerbase (Massively Multiplayer for a reason.)
You have plenty of them that are "hardcore" enough to create their own quests, scripts, or even graphics and "submit" them for approval.

What kind of MMO would it be if the players not only helped improve the game, but after a long period of time, actually MADE the game "the game it is today"?

MMO's could harness the power of FREE content to add. All they'd need do is create a nice tool (Check out NWN's tool)

The fact that NWN has already done this is amazing enough on its own. Imagine if a "GM of the server" or a "GrandMaster of the game" reviewed player content and actually ADDED it into the game? Player based quests created BY players, FOR players.

Instead of "Kill 5 rats." you would get incredibly elaborate quests made entirely from individuals, small teams, or even guilds grouping together to form content. TALENTED content too! Just provide the tools, have a team to scan through the content (only allowing good content to pass through.)

The company gets players to improve the game, and the PLAYERS actually PAY THE COMPANY money to do so! Not only is it free extra content, it's GOOD content, and it's more than free, they actually get PAYED cause it's an MMO! lol

Imagine a game with a population like DAoC creating content. Right now at this very moment, they have 5500 NA players online at 5:30PM (Central) Imagine their actual playerbase. Now imagine how many of those people would create content. You cut out the crap (Theres bound to be content that is absolutely crap.) and filter in the good stuff. Of all that's submitted, a small percent is bound to be amazing. Multiply the numbers of an MMO's population and you're bound to get a lot of amazing quests, a TON of good quests, and an infinite supply of quests slightly better than "Kill 5 rats".

Imagine with a population like LOTRO or even WoW.
Heck, just look at NWN1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add this player-created content to an already-amazing MMORPG, and it skyrockets from the box of "DPS Tank Healer, You're not a hero, you're Rat-Population Control, You can't change the world" mentality, and go into an entirely different MMO concept. One based on more than just combat (skills that actually do things!!!) an alterable world, a "GM of the server", an ever-changing world, and player-created content ON TOP of already-good content.

Originally posted by Truthseeker

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

What a better resource to use than the PLAYER COMMUNITY?

You have a large, vass amount of players in your playerbase (Massively Multiplayer for a reason.)
You have plenty of them that are "hardcore" enough to create their own quests, scripts, or even graphics and "submit" them for approval.

What kind of MMO would it be if the players not only helped improve the game, but after a long period of time, actually MADE the game "the game it is today"?

MMO's could harness the power of FREE content to add. All they'd need do is create a nice tool (Check out NWN's tool)

The fact that NWN has already done this is amazing enough on its own. Imagine if a "GM of the server" or a "GrandMaster of the game" reviewed player content and actually ADDED it into the game? Player based quests created BY players, FOR players.

Instead of "Kill 5 rats." you would get incredibly elaborate quests made entirely from individuals, small teams, or even guilds grouping together to form content. TALENTED content too! Just provide the tools, have a team to scan through the content (only allowing good content to pass through.)

The company gets players to improve the game, and the PLAYERS actually PAY THE COMPANY money to do so! Not only is it free extra content, it's GOOD content, and it's more than free, they actually get PAYED cause it's an MMO! lol

Imagine a game with a population like DAoC creating content. Right now at this very moment, they have 5500 NA players online at 5:30PM (Central) Imagine their actual playerbase. Now imagine how many of those people would create content. You cut out the crap (Theres bound to be content that is absolutely crap.) and filter in the good stuff. Of all that's submitted, a small percent is bound to be amazing. Multiply the numbers of an MMO's population and you're bound to get a lot of amazing quests, a TON of good quests, and an infinite supply of quests slightly better than "Kill 5 rats".

Imagine with a population like LOTRO or even WoW.
Heck, just look at NWN1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add this player-created content to an already-amazing MMORPG, and it skyrockets from the box of "DPS Tank Healer, You're not a hero, you're Rat-Population Control, You can't change the world" mentality, and go into an entirely different MMO concept. One based on more than just combat (skills that actually do things!!!) an alterable world, a "GM of the server", an ever-changing world, and player-created content ON TOP of already-good content.

Obviously there are law issues to think of before. If players create immoral content (porn) or as we know the internet isn't a safe place (pedophiles), what can you do to prevent these things from happening ? I think that unless a game is GNU or some like that, it is impossible for a conventional company to make this happen without potential law suits. The modders themselves are now reticent to release their mods to the community in fear of mass media garbage ensuing.

I have a system in mind for this. Yes, the tool is a good idea. Yes, the player-made content is fine. Why not host the player-made content on a separate website, have the players themselves upload and vote on it (moderators filter out the naughty bits) and when enough people like it, the content is implemented into the game at the developers' discression? Much like plug-ins and content for many single-player games like NWN.

It would offer players the chance to make their own content and show their ideas to everyone and possibly see them in the game (oh yay,  the stuff I made was added!), and it would save the development team a ton of heartache from thinking up new generic monthly content. The developers have the right to modify or use the ideas freely, of course, so only the approved content makes it in.

Problem: the user-friendly tool. Development tools are very difficult to make; the Construction Set for Morrowind alone took Bethesda an entire year to create. I can't even begin to imagine the time and resources needed to make one for an MMORPG.

Originally posted by Thunderhead

very good, but I want to kill the King you just killed too...

You see my point ? One day you will find 20 assasins trying to kill the same king

Even better, if player had too much power in a mmo world it would be utterly destroyed shortly.... Trust me, I would even be be the one doing it or even helping the process

 

That's what balance and difficulty is for. Who is to say 100 don't try, and who is to say that any achieve AT ALL?

You can't just say "Too much power in an mmo would destroy it!" when there exists a single word: BALANCE.

Originally posted by Truthseeker

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

What a better resource to use than the PLAYER COMMUNITY?

You have a large, vass amount of players in your playerbase (Massively Multiplayer for a reason.)
You have plenty of them that are "hardcore" enough to create their own quests, scripts, or even graphics and "submit" them for approval.

What kind of MMO would it be if the players not only helped improve the game, but after a long period of time, actually MADE the game "the game it is today"?

MMO's could harness the power of FREE content to add. All they'd need do is create a nice tool (Check out NWN's tool)

The fact that NWN has already done this is amazing enough on its own. Imagine if a "GM of the server" or a "GrandMaster of the game" reviewed player content and actually ADDED it into the game? Player based quests created BY players, FOR players.

Instead of "Kill 5 rats." you would get incredibly elaborate quests made entirely from individuals, small teams, or even guilds grouping together to form content. TALENTED content too! Just provide the tools, have a team to scan through the content (only allowing good content to pass through.)

The company gets players to improve the game, and the PLAYERS actually PAY THE COMPANY money to do so! Not only is it free extra content, it's GOOD content, and it's more than free, they actually get PAYED cause it's an MMO! lol

Imagine a game with a population like DAoC creating content. Right now at this very moment, they have 5500 NA players online at 5:30PM (Central) Imagine their actual playerbase. Now imagine how many of those people would create content. You cut out the crap (Theres bound to be content that is absolutely crap.) and filter in the good stuff. Of all that's submitted, a small percent is bound to be amazing. Multiply the numbers of an MMO's population and you're bound to get a lot of amazing quests, a TON of good quests, and an infinite supply of quests slightly better than "Kill 5 rats".

Imagine with a population like LOTRO or even WoW.
Heck, just look at NWN1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add this player-created content to an already-amazing MMORPG, and it skyrockets from the box of "DPS Tank Healer, You're not a hero, you're Rat-Population Control, You can't change the world" mentality, and go into an entirely different MMO concept. One based on more than just combat (skills that actually do things!!!) an alterable world, a "GM of the server", an ever-changing world, and player-created content ON TOP of already-good content.

Obviously there are law issues to think of before. If players create immoral content (porn) or as we know the internet isn't a safe place (pedophiles), what can you do to prevent these things from happening ? I think that unless a game is GNU or some like that, it is impossible for a conventional company to make this happen without potential law suits. The modders themselves are now reticent to release their mods to the community in fear of mass media garbage ensuing.

Video games already do this.......not just in the form of mods (Starcraft has some of the most immoral, horrible mods ever. "Escape the Rapist" or "School Shooting Masacre" etc. etc.

Any game that allows mods......NWN1 already does this.....Saga of Rhyzom "does" it as well. City of Heroes/Villains does direct ripoffs of superheroes. Super Saiyen Goku running around.

Law obviously isn't a problem. Sorry, you'll have to look elsewhere to find a flaw in such an amazing idea.

Also.......I think you didn't read my post where I said the developers look at all the content and decide what they want to put in.

Problem: the user-friendly tool. Development tools are very difficult to make; the Construction Set for Morrowind alone took Bethesda an entire year to create. I can't even begin to imagine the time and resources needed to make one for an MMORPG.

Good post, I agree.

Imagine the amount of time it would take to create an AMAZING (And I mean absolutely AMAZING Construction Set that almost ANYONE can use, and that is almost limitless)

Now compound the player-content over time and compare that to how long it would take the developers to create the same amount of content!!!!

Creating a tool for a year could, over time, eventually add up to give them content that would take them 10 years to produce by themselves.

I think the investment would be well worth it. Especially since MMO's already take forever to make.