You raid 5 hours a night, every night.  The gear you get from these raids doesnt give a significant advantage over other players.

The gear you get from beating their pve endgame is obsolete every expansion.  In TBC, quest gear was better than anything you could get in naxx.

The PVP system is artificial.  There is no real world pvp anymore(no one does it).  People just care about getting honor etc.  In order to find pvp in this game, you have to kill the same newbies every few seconds in some artificial instance created solely for the purpose of pvping.  Personally, I thought the pvp system in this game sucked and was boring.  I played guildwars briefly, and i share the same feelings for that pvp as I do for WoW.

Other PvP flaws - World PVP is non existant as I said.  No one attacks horde towns (or wants to even, due to the lack of honor).  Also, huge penalties for killing garbage guard npcs(retarded).

I don't get why any MMORPG would have penalties for pvping (like WoW).    Maybe no one wants to pvp in their boring instances, killing the same newbies over and over(and over).  The Battlegrounds were only put in because their game couldnt handle massive battles between hundreds of people (it would crash their servers).  And then what, they put huge penalties on it to ensure no one even tries it.

The PvE system is dull and repetitive.  If anyone has done a MC, BWL, AQ run more than once, you know what I mean.  And really, even if you get the gear, it won't do much for your character.  The point of their pve gear seems to be just to do more PvE.  You can have the bes gear in the game, and 2 people of the right class would beat you no matter how skilled you are.  Not that EQ was balanced, but at least if you spent a ton of time beating their PvE system, you would be able to take over zones by yourself.

I don't know if the instance thing is a good thing.  There is no competition between guilds really.  Maybe an MMORPG that had some instances, but also had some world spawns that guilds have to compete over. 

There are literally 100s of people on the same server with the same gear, and they probably look the same as your character.  What happened to being unique?  I think it should be more diversified or something.  The whole "Gear Set" thing is stupid.  What is the point of it other than to make players robots.  People will just get the gear because blizzard wants them to get it.  It's pretty much "Here is the gear we want you to use for PvEing", and you are stuck with it.  Maybe not everyone shares the same vision as blizzard as to where the class should be.

On my last point - Blizzard doesnt want your character to be unique.  As a paladin in WoW, I felt that the only feasible build was a holy build (just to do healing on raids basically).  You can't tank, and you can't really do damage. 

Lack of a serious endgame.  There is nothing(productive) to do in WoW except battlegrounds while waiting for a raid.  What else is there?  Fishing Tournaments?  Lol.  At least in EQ you could go grind out AA points and advance your character.  Clearly that would be too "hardcore" for WoW.  Instead, go do repetitive BGs and kill the same talentless players over and over.

It always crashed their servers before, why wouldnt it now?  It seems very suspicious to me that they would throw in all those penalty NPCs for attacking towns(lose 1 weeks worth of honor for killing some garbage npc that dies in 1 hit). 

Originally posted by Dalmar
Ditch WoW and get ready for WAR!

WAR's PvP/RvR will dominate the market.

Originally posted by jeckelbros
1. Obviously you haven't PvP'd in WoW for a while as Civilians and Dishonorable kills were removed over 6 months ago.

2. If you don't like WoW, then don't play it. Just becaue it's a 500 lb. gorilla, doesn't mean it needs your input.

3. You obviously haven't played a pally lately as they are one of the games best, if not the best multi target tank.

Go find an MMO or a wall to stare at.

You're right, I quit after their flop expansion came out. 

I don't like WoW because it's a lousy MMORPG.  The only reason people play it I believe is because it's a kiddy MMORPG where everyone sits in the zone talking about linkin park music etc.  Lol.  If you like listening to 15 year olds on ventrilo 5 hours a night, WoW is for you.

3) Lol.  They can tank now?  Can they tank raid NPCs or offtank anything in raids?  I remember in BWL that paladins couldnt even tank trash NPCs there without dying.    You probably mean best multi target tank for trash mobs. 

Find an MMO? They all suck, what can I say.  EQ was probably the only decent MMORPG ever made, but then sucked ever since luclin was released. 

Even though they may have removed those honor hit NPCs, that doesnt mean that world PVP is existant in WoW.  The facts are, that its just not worth it to raid a town, kill their leader etc.  You're better off just grinding taurens in battlegrounds for honor.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by jeckelbros
1. Obviously you haven't PvP'd in WoW for a while as Civilians and Dishonorable kills were removed over 6 months ago.

2. If you don't like WoW, then don't play it. Just becaue it's a 500 lb. gorilla, doesn't mean it needs your input.

3. You obviously haven't played a pally lately as they are one of the games best, if not the best multi target tank.

Go find an MMO or a wall to stare at.

 

You're right, I quit after their flop expansion came out. 

I don't like WoW because it's a lousy MMORPG.  The only reason people play it I believe is because it's a kiddy MMORPG where everyone sits in the zone talking about linkin park music etc.  Lol.  If you like listening to 15 year olds on ventrilo 5 hours a night, WoW is for you.

3) Lol.  They can tank now?  Can they tank raid NPCs or offtank anything in raids?  I remember in BWL that paladins couldnt even tank trash NPCs there without dying.    You probably mean best multi target tank for trash mobs. 

Find an MMO? They all suck, what can I say.  EQ was probably the only decent MMORPG ever made, but then sucked ever since luclin was released. 

Even though they may have removed those honor hit NPCs, that doesnt mean that world PVP is existant in WoW.  The facts are, that its just not worth it to raid a town, kill their leader etc.  You're better off just grinding taurens in battlegrounds for honor.

Originally posted by tylerwick

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by jeckelbros
1. Obviously you haven't PvP'd in WoW for a while as Civilians and Dishonorable kills were removed over 6 months ago.

2. If you don't like WoW, then don't play it. Just becaue it's a 500 lb. gorilla, doesn't mean it needs your input.

3. You obviously haven't played a pally lately as they are one of the games best, if not the best multi target tank.

Go find an MMO or a wall to stare at.

 

You're right, I quit after their flop expansion came out. 

I don't like WoW because it's a lousy MMORPG.  The only reason people play it I believe is because it's a kiddy MMORPG where everyone sits in the zone talking about linkin park music etc.  Lol.  If you like listening to 15 year olds on ventrilo 5 hours a night, WoW is for you.

3) Lol.  They can tank now?  Can they tank raid NPCs or offtank anything in raids?  I remember in BWL that paladins couldnt even tank trash NPCs there without dying.    You probably mean best multi target tank for trash mobs. 

Find an MMO? They all suck, what can I say.  EQ was probably the only decent MMORPG ever made, but then sucked ever since luclin was released. 

Even though they may have removed those honor hit NPCs, that doesnt mean that world PVP is existant in WoW.  The facts are, that its just not worth it to raid a town, kill their leader etc.  You're better off just grinding taurens in battlegrounds for honor.

You havnt played in months... SO you just up and decided you felt like ranting about WoW?   If I feel like ranting its generally due to somthing that heppened recently.

Lol yeah.  It's sad to see 8 million or whatever playing such a lousy MMORPG.  Hopefully new companies won't try to make WoW clones with their shit PvE and PvP systems.  Honestly, with lousy pve and pvp in WoW, I wonder what keeps people playing.  It is probably just the social aspects of it.  Beating their game was so boring, since I knew that TBC would obsolete everythin I got.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by tylerwick

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by jeckelbros
1. Obviously you haven't PvP'd in WoW for a while as Civilians and Dishonorable kills were removed over 6 months ago.

2. If you don't like WoW, then don't play it. Just becaue it's a 500 lb. gorilla, doesn't mean it needs your input.

3. You obviously haven't played a pally lately as they are one of the games best, if not the best multi target tank.

Go find an MMO or a wall to stare at.

 

You're right, I quit after their flop expansion came out. 

I don't like WoW because it's a lousy MMORPG.  The only reason people play it I believe is because it's a kiddy MMORPG where everyone sits in the zone talking about linkin park music etc.  Lol.  If you like listening to 15 year olds on ventrilo 5 hours a night, WoW is for you.

3) Lol.  They can tank now?  Can they tank raid NPCs or offtank anything in raids?  I remember in BWL that paladins couldnt even tank trash NPCs there without dying.    You probably mean best multi target tank for trash mobs. 

Find an MMO? They all suck, what can I say.  EQ was probably the only decent MMORPG ever made, but then sucked ever since luclin was released. 

Even though they may have removed those honor hit NPCs, that doesnt mean that world PVP is existant in WoW.  The facts are, that its just not worth it to raid a town, kill their leader etc.  You're better off just grinding taurens in battlegrounds for honor.

You havnt played in months... SO you just up and decided you felt like ranting about WoW?   If I feel like ranting its generally due to somthing that heppened recently.

 

Lol yeah.  It's sad to see 8 million or whatever playing such a lousy MMORPG.  Hopefully new companies won't try to make WoW clones with their shit PvE and PvP systems.  Honestly, with lousy pve and pvp in WoW, I wonder what keeps people playing.  It is probably just the social aspects of it.  Beating their game was so boring, since I knew that TBC would obsolete everythin I got.

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You raid 5 hours a night, every night. The gear you get from these raids doesnt give a significant advantage over other players.

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it shouldn't give you a significant advantage over other players that dont raid, that what the arena gear is for.

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The gear you get from beating their pve endgame is obsolete every expansion. In TBC, quest gear was better than anything you could get in naxx.

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seems you must be new to these type of games, that happens in every single mmog there is, until there is a game that has no modifications to their armor/weapons this will always happen to every game as it gets older and new content is added...it is unavoidable.

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The PVP system is artificial.

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the pvp system (honor system) is broken and is complete garbage, i will give you that. although except for some balancing issues i think the arena pvp system is pretty decent.

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The point of their pve gear seems to be just to do more PvE. You can have the bes gear in the game, and 2 people of the right class would beat you no matter how skilled you are. Not that EQ was balanced, but at least if you spent a ton of time beating their PvE system, you would be able to take over zones by yourself.

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let me start by saying i played on VZ the teams pvp server for 3 years, and all i have to say is...WOW, you actually want to go back to that? you think that is a good thing to be able to be any idiot with superior gear that can wipe an entire group of even level players without getting hurt at all? do you even want a challenge in pvp? or do you want to just be in god mode and never get hurt so you can pretend you have even the slightest bit of skill in pvp?

what also puzzles me is you are complaining that when playing wow "beating their pve endgame is obsolete every expansion." but yet you played eq and that game did the same damn thing. why do you think those people with the endgame gear were like gods in that game? you think the eq end game gear started out anywhere near that? nope it sure didn't.

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Lack of a serious endgame. There is nothing(productive) to do in WoW except battlegrounds while waiting for a raid. What else is there? Fishing Tournaments? Lol. At least in EQ you could go grind out AA points and advance your character. Clearly that would be too "hardcore" for WoW. Instead, go do repetitive BGs and kill the same talentless players over and over.

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now that i can agree with, wow does lack anything at max lvl to do other than getting gear upgrades. they should have made the talents the "AA's" of wow and just put a max 61 talent points you could get.

but i think you want wow to be to much like old skool eq pvp and that system was far worse than wow's imo, at least from a balancing and content perspective. sure there was open pvp and it was fun, but that's all it was and it was freakin terribly unbalanced.

there was absolutely no pvp content at all, you had absolutely nothing to gain from pvp other than respect. now don't get me wrong i loved the pvp in eq at the time, but looking back on it, it was straight garbage compared to what some of the newer games are doing.

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Originally posted by Illison

     I acutally liked the Pve in WoW, it was alot more than a zerg fest like what EQ use to be or what almost every other MMORPG still focuses on. When i left wow about a couple of months guilds were raiding capital cities weekly, on my server.

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agree totally, wow's pve endgame is better than eq's ever was in my opinion. i liked eq's lore 1000x better than wow's crap lore but the raid content it self is far superior to what eq's ever was.

same with the small group content, in wow it takes more strategy to take down most 5 man boss's than it did with most the eq raid bosses. most raid encounters in eq were just huge zergs with tank -n- spank strategis.

if you had enough people half your raid could be afk or not doing their job right and still you could drop the boss.

I love this thread because I love bitching wow. Yes i played it longer than archlords or EQ2 by about a day or 2 but my god it is the poorest of the poor. Imagine going to Macdonalds every day for a week.

There are still some nice restaurants to dine in but as over 50% of mmorpg players have now officially got burn-out from killing the same friggin animal a million times the revolution must be near!!!

So some body make a psuedo-Western style game with 18+ content that does not bow to the pc world i.e. rascism/sexism/violence are all used in a non real/alterantive world i.e. not the real world thus art and there for a theurapuetic avenue of aggression, angst removal, non totalitarian state society, etc and not a meeting ground for Nazi nun-rapists although they have to meet some where I guess?

further more ganking is preferred, and perma-death is paramount.

Yes - all very extreme and unpalatable to the average child like mind consumed with WOW's complexities but who said revolutions were good for every body? Of course there is the real world but that would be even worse...and obviously a bit more dangerous!

Although i love wow, i agree with many of the things the OP stated.  First, unless you are currently raiding the three highest instances, your gear can be equal to or worse then casual gamers.  TBC wanted to make raiding more casual gamer friendly and it did to a certain degree.  Kara gives away very good gear and only needs ten players in a raid to accomplish.  Also, many of the items in kara are equal to or better then the items attained in SSC or grull and mag. 

Pre-tbc and before the rework of the Honor system where you could "Buy" your epics, there was a very big line between players based on their gear.  If you weren't raiding or pvping CONSTANTLY and totally dedicated, you wouldn't get the pretty purplez and own everybody at bgs and world pvp.  Now, there are so many people with epics that it has kind of made the feeling of getting them a little stale. 

BGs are cool, but still reward players for their time rather then skill.

On a side note, world pvp isn;t 100% dead, but it doesn't really have the feel in outlands it does when  you are leveling up in azeroth. 

Despite the game steadily losing its US player base, the european, oceanic, and chinese player bases are growing. 

I still love the game and will continue to play because i have only experienced a small part of the entire game.