I'm getting so sick of hearing this "WoW Clone" rubbish, like Blizzard have a original bone in their bodies. Blizzard do ONE thing well, they make polished products. THAT'S it. Lore, gameplay, they rip off. Comments like "given that all the pre-release stuff we've seen looks a lot like the graphical style of WoW" in reference to WAR are getting annoying. Warcraft is a massive Warhammer off and they owe all of their style to Games Workshop, and despite this being said over and over again we still see comments like the one above. What do you want Warhammer to look like? Pacman? Games Workshop, a company that took Tolkien lore (and some others) and made something very unique and their own. Blizzard, a company that took Games Workshop lore and ripped off Dune 3 game play and it's really not changed much since. As good as it was for me up to level 40, I really do think WoW has killed MMORPGs, in more ways than one.

WOW is just the latest iteration of where the current version of MMO's were going.  From UO to EQ the next flip would be a more streamlined version of the 2 games.  What WOW does good is bring the masses to the MMO world.

Unfortunately in doing so it dumb's down the game into a spponfed romp through the virtual countryside.

While this is appealing to the masses it runs rather boring to most veterans of the MMO worlds.

The biggest complaint about making things harder and having to solve puzzles and such is the spoiler sites that inevitably pop up once a game is in production.  While there are those who complain about this and make it seem that this is a bad thing.  It is still something that you have to go out and search for and do research on.  IMO spoiler sites are just an optional thing to the game. 

I feel that the whole make it easier and they will come will only go so far.  Once the initial oo and aaaa is overwith you are left with a watered down game that has no personality and a community that only does spot groups to keep from having to fight over camps. 

At least with the spoiler sites you have the option of not using them and playing a game that is more challenging.  As opposed to a game that is just on rails.

AJ Glassner just wants attention.  Shut up about WoW clone.  If we are going to put it that way, then every game is a clone of Mario and D&D...and those are also clones of real life, because you can jump in Mario like RL. 

Originally posted by trajan

Warhammer online, Age of conan, Pirates of the burning sea are all going to stink.

 

The next gen MMO is Darkfall Online.  Get a peek at it. 

 

Warning though, it is not for the faint of heart, or people you like shiny things.

Yeah if it EVER gets released.  If it ever does get release it will already be out dated.

J Glassner

Warhammer Online - There is a huge fan base and a lot of anticipation; but given that all the pre-release
stuff we've seen looks a lot like the graphical style of WoW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you even looked at any Videos or Screen Shoots? How can you say the graphical styles is like WOW,

because they are in the same genre? Because that is what other people have said? Ork of Warhammer does

not look like WOW Orcs.  WAR Goblins don't look like WOW goblins. Here is a link that shows the graphical style

is completely different, seems that people need to get it right it the same genre but 2 different styles completely.

warhammerinfo.com/hatemail03-30-2007.shtml

Originally posted by zensaber
I think people are forgetting that,just like it said it in the article, WoW is just a EQ clone. So technically all new mmos that are said to be WoW clones are really EQ clones but are called WoW clones because the majority of the new gamers brought in with WoW are fucking retarded or just don't know their history very well.

eq clone would be inacurate imo
couse wow brought some changes that other people took over

saying a game is a wow clone is the same as saying the game follows the current mmorpg standard
thats why i think it makes more sense to call them wow clones than EQ clones or UO clones

I don't think it's so much that current games are WoW clones. I think it's that the high fantasy genre has been adhering to the same basic formulas in gaming, fiction, videogames, and film for a good 30+ years at this point. Basically, I think the high fantasy genre has become stale simply because it has reused Tolkien as the basis for its lore since the late sixties and tabletop D&D as the basis for its game mechanics and leveling since the seventies.

The races in 99% of high fantasy gaming and fiction have always been a loosely veiled bastardization of Tolkien lore (elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs, etc). The leveling and class system in fantasy RPGs has been with us since tabletop D&D. WoW didn't bring anything new to the table. They blatantly ripped off the graphic feel of Warhammer (so much that when I bought WoW, I assumed that it was based on "that tabletop strategy game I used to see in the comic book shop as a kid").

Blizzard streamlined what existed before them and did a great job of it. They created a polished, accessible game, not a daringly original one.

"Warcraft: Orcs & Humans was originally supposed to be a Warhammer game For one reason or another, the deal was broken off with the Games Workshop and the game was given a new storyline and a new universe. The Orcs in Warcraft were originally modeled after the Orcs of Warhammer, and it is because of this reason they share a striking similarity."

Warcraft still owes Games Workshop, because the Orc Style that Warcraft uses (that being orcs being green and generally looking like that. Yes, Games Workshop invented the green, muscular, not-so-hairy and bulky orc i believe. Maybe not, but at least that specific design that warcraft uses. Tolkiens Orcs weren't green) is licensed by - surprise - Games Workshop. Who made warhammer if you didn't know that.

And BTW. The first Warhammer Online by Climax Online started developement in 2002 i think. WAY before the release of WoW. But it was cancelled and mythic got the job to make it.

i hate that everyone compares any other mmo with warcraft

like:
UGH warhammer = warcraft 2 !?!?!
lotro interface looks like warcraft interface !??
i could give hundreds of comparisons

but the truth is even world of warcraft has ALOT STOLEN ! its not like that wow had been the first mmo
they stole alot things and just polished it a bit and said : here guys look its nice new and our

Originally posted by trajan

Warhammer online, Age of conan, Pirates of the burning sea are all going to stink.

 

The next gen MMO is Darkfall Online.  Get a peek at it. 

 

Warning though, it is not for the faint of heart, or people you like shiny things.

It's not for the faint of heart, but just for those who believe in fairy tales and Santa.... i wonder when someone is gonna refer to the DnL syndrome and DnL clones... to stay on topic

The concept of a "WoW clone" needs to be viewed from a broader perspective.  It has nothing to do with elves, dwarves, or fantasy, it has to do with the product being offered.  Jack in the Box is a McDonalds clone, Pepsi is a Coke clone, Vault is a Mtn Dew clone, etc.  WoW came alone to a market that was roughtly 800k (domestic) and quite literally CREATED another 2 million people for that market.  The original 800k bounced from MMO to MMO and came to WoW with at least 1 prior MMO's experience, but these additional 2 million folks have only seen a single MMO.

WoW was created, by design, to be the McDonalds of MMO's.  No snooty waiters, no reservations, just come in, get food you like, and come again tomorrow.  Vanguard started before WoW came out and their press was all about "this is the next generation of MMO, we're going to top the market!"  Then WoW hit while they were in development and beat them to death.  Suddenly, they changed their tune and started saying "We're not going to be like WoW, we don't need 8 million customers to be successful, we're looking for discriminating customers!"

I'm sorry, but I call BS.  Every MMO dev in his right mind wants 8 million customers.  8 million customers literally means INFINITE capital to develop whatever they want.  WoW is paying for Starcraft II, Diablo III, etc.  These guys are rolling in money, they could live Caligula's life if they wanted, paying midgets to perform hallucinations for them.  Everyone that has ever started an MMO wants that kind of success, and any MMO dev (including Eve) that says otherwise is lying to you.  That kind of success if every American's fantasy, especially American business owners.

Every MMO that is released from now on, regardless of format and genre, will be compared to WoW, because 75% of the market has only WoW as their prior MMO.  And, since WoW set the bar so low, trying to make things harder or less fun will always result in failure.  Sure, there will always be mom-and-pop MMO's that spring up next door to McDonalds, and they'll serve dozens of customers a day and call themselves happy, but just like indie film makers who publicly swear they don't want mega success, they secretly wish that they could serve billions.

       People like you who dub games "wow" clones are completely oblivious to the thought and effort put into the game,

For example :

1:Warhammer Online, you like many others fail to realize, that the original idea of this game thought up by Games Workshop was stolen by Blizzard and then created into the infamous Warcraft franchise. So really, Blizzard has only been "cloning" the thoughts and ideas of Games Workshop for the past few years, and making a truckload of money from it as well.

2. If you even took some effort to do some research actually, you would find the website, www.Warhammeronline.com
And in that website is a bunch of neat things, like phone blogs and video podcasts, which your site actually emails to subscribers of www.mmorpg.com. You'll realize how many times the developers say and inforce the words, "we are nothing like wow" and you can even see it isn't.

3. The graphics in a game like warhammer might seem to be copied from WoW, but if you take a close look you'll realize its nothing like WoW at all. As a matter of fact, if im not mistaken the dev's at mythic are using the same engine from daoc, but buffed up alot. So who's engine was created first? Mythics.. Who's copying who? No one. Wow clone? Not really... Just because some idiots who can't tell left from right say somthing like, "OMG IT HAS WOW GRAPHIXX IM NOT GOING NEAR THE COPY CLONEZORZ OMGZARZ" doesn't mean its a crap game. And since when is it illegal to have a cartoony graphics engine? Have you ever seen anything from the warhammer or warhammer 40k universe? The models looks exactly like the units created in the MMORPG version, thats why the graphics are like that(so they can have a similarity with the board game).

   Its not fair to judge a game, and compare it to something like wow. Its like basically  comparing a new Ford to a McLaren or a Bugatti, it just can't size up. There has been some "clones" thou, and there is no mistaking it, but the games you mentioned are Faaaaaaaaaaaar from it. Age of Conan is also another game i could go into detail with, but im lazy www.ageofconan.com so i'll just let you figure that one out. To put it in a nutshell, 90% of the people who say cloning are handicapped/retarded or just f*king stupid <they clearly haven't looked at the game at all and what it has to offer> so they get a brilliant idea.......   WOW CLONE YEEEEEWW... and there it is. Unfortunately this can't be stopped.

And to all those WoW fanbois, there is a cold hard fact, WoW is getting old, and blizzard isn't doing anything to fix it, so the only way it will be going is down. Warhammer or Age of Conan is the question thou

P.S. Rumor has it Starcraft Online is in the works <Starcraft 2 - TFT anyone?>..

There all just games in the same Genre.  There are only so many ways that you can have an elf and a dwarf in a game fight a orc or something.  All this clone talk is stupid.  You know what, most MMOs play similar, even the fabled EVE, but to say that they're all cloning each other... crazy talk.  WoW didn't "rip off" Everquest" any more than LOTRO "cloned" WoW.  They're different games in the same Genre.  F.E.A.R. didn't "steal" from Doom any more than Vanguard did from WoW.  Developers take what worked from one game and apply it to their own.  It's the way things are done.  WoW's interface is pretty good and a lot of people like it, including, probably, the devopers of LOTRO.  Should they have just made something that may or may not suck just so that it didn't look anything like WoW's interface?  How many games use the WASD keys for movement?  Should that be restricted only to the first game that ever did that?  What about using function keys for different weapons or spells?  If something works for a game, it would be stupid for other developers makeing similar games to NOT borrow from that.  It's how things get better.  Innovation is really just evolution.  While it may not be visible from one generation to the next, it is there.  Even if a game came out that's sole purpose was to copy WoW, there would still be things that they try that end up working better than the way WoW does it, and it wouldn't be an improvement to justt that game, but to every other game down the line when they see how much better things are with the new function/layout/skill/quest/etc.

At the same time though, the high fantasy stuff is getting tired.  I have no problems with gameplay being similar or anything like that, but why, oh why, does everything have to be based in some tolkien-esqe fantasy world?  Give me some horror, sci-fi, or modern crime fighting spy extravaganza.  Something that doesn't have leather skullcaps and named swords.  Enough is enough.

Originally posted by Dreneth

I am so sick of people referring to MMO's as "WoW clones".  WoW is based on Warcraft, and if anything borrows concepts from other games to cross the Warcraft series into the MMO scene.  The only thing that could be considered a WoW clone, would be if someone were to develop an MMO version of Command & Conquer, and even that wouldn't really be a clone.

There are no WoW clones.

i disagree i think most mmorpgs are wow clones becouse game devs try to copy the best games out there to make a lot of money but im not saying that its bad to take the good things of game and mix  them together. but making an exact clone?
i dont think so

I have to say i got the email about this article this morning and I knew i was going to love it. 

 

This statement is really starting to get stupid because i think people are getting the games that came before World of Warcraft.

 

I played World of Warcraft at release.  I just finished playing DAOC for about 2 years and gave WoW a try and i quit my lvl 32 shaman.  The game wasn't for me.  I didn't feel like I had to go comparing the game to other games, or did i feel like i had to go post around and let everyone know why I didnt like it.  I actually thought the game was kind of interesting, but it just got boaring to me with all the quest and what not. 

What is cloning?  Because WoW has mounts, which by the way they're not evene close to being the first game to impliment mounts, nobody else is able to have mounts? 

Because the lore-master is similar to a wizard, YOU CALL THAT CLONING?     last time i checked a wizard is a damn wizard.... lol  how different can you make them?  Almost every MMO has a wizard type class.... again not the first to try this one out.

The list goes on, but i just thought those two were one of  the most rediculous pieces for your wall of information there author.  I guess I thought that most of the community on these forums were trying to end this "OMG WOW CLONE OMG OMG OMG" stuff.  This just adds fuel to the fire, and the more i see people support the "WOW CLONE" theory the more this immature this community looks because the facts are that WOW had to get it's ideas from somewhere too.  We need to think that MMORPG IS ALL THE SAME GENRE of games. Originality is great, dont get me wrong, but if it's in the same genre, how far can you really branch off? 

ihave played a lot of games in the mmorpgheaven :), but i never played WoW.... :=)

the reason: i read only the flame on the forums about griefing on the battlefield for the honourpoints , and so on...

a colleague is playing Wow, he sterted later playing , as I did in Vanguard, his Char is much higher then mine , thats another reason not to play Wow. It is to easy... :)

Another thing is , to compare games is , same to compare soccerteams, they all play soccer, but who has intent it ? :)) The genre of Fantasy games, like Wow, EQ, Vanguard , or , or , or doesnt depend on one developer.Each game has his own advantages and mistakes, thats true. So I see each game as its own, and never compare it to anaother, sometimes a game i played , it is in my mind a pearl i discovered, but this is a subjective meaning....

All in all i think this discussion isnt worth.

No harm meant :))

greetings

 

No more fantasy MMOs please! They are not trendy.

Think of something more original!

Fantasy is not a mainstream interest. For example, in bookshops fantasy books are placed in a small section at the back (in the same way that porn in newsagents is located on the top shelf!)

You guys have got to get off the elves and dwarves crap, it's not about the content.  If it is, then all fantasy are LOTR clones, and Eve is a clone of Star Wars, or better yet, 2001.  There, all cloning accounted for.

As for graphics, there are only so many ways to design an avatar before they all essentially start to look alike.  Tolkein established what elves and dwarves looked like, and artists have been rendering them, in one form or another, for years.  Apart from varying degrees of stylization or cartooniness, they all look essentially the same.

What the "clone" discussion is about is the implementation.  Take out the fantasy elements, the races, and the genre, and what's left?  An extremely easy-to-play social game.  Eve is hard, Vanguard was hard, LOTRO is hard, compared to WoW.  This new generation of MMO players don't want hard, they want fun.

For example, a joke I always say about Vanguard from a quote by one of the devs, "Vanguard is for people who like corpse runs!"  Who enjoys corpse runs?  Or death debt?  Or losing exps?  Or losing hard-earned loot?  For that matter, who decided "anything worth having should be very hard"?  This Diku mentality of anything worth having should require 100's of players to get is riduclous, IMHO.  WoW's raiding is only visible to about 5% of the total population, the rest of the game is designed (in theory) for smaller encounters, which appeals more to the masses.

typical WoW player ... an idiot. this is why i have always said, if you play WoW and you Enjoy WoW ... you're opinions should be null and void on any other MMO. Heck you should even be banned from other MMOs and be an outcast of normal MMO society.

only reason WoW is so popular is because it caters to the lowest common denominator. If the game was any easier the game would play itself while you watched.

Well, that was an article that should've been written by a politician - use a lot of words to say nothing!  What a load of crap!  MMORPG has really lowered their standards in the last few months; I guess they'll let just about anyone write for them now.  Hey, maybe next month they can have Hillary write about how bad videogames are for us...