Originally posted by godpuppet

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Samuraisword

What games(plural) has SOE made great? Matrix online? Planetside?

EQ1 was a better game before SOE took control away from Brad Mcquaid and focused on raiding and forced grouping.

EQ2 has never been a good game, was disliked by most when it was released, and has half the subscribers now.

SOE's involvement with Gods and Heroes is a negative, not a positive.

This is all your opinion as seen through your +2 Crimson Goggles of SOE Hate. Hundreds of thousands of subscribers(If not millions considering the amount of games they produce) think differently.

Bren

Edit: Oh and isn't there a sticky thread at the top of this forum for all of this BS. It's there so the rest of us that don't give a crap(the majority) don't have to deal with it. I suggest that you use it in the future for this kind of mindless SOE hate trolling as that is why the mods put it there in the first place.

The only great game SoE has had in its possession was Everquest and its success was mostly pinned on the fact it was the first and only 3D MMOG to release. Players coming into the genre were given the choice between 2d UO or 3d EQ. Even so, EQ's 'millions' were acquired over a period of 8+ years, its current population is a shadow of its former glory. EQ2, is much the same, it was buggy and rush released, its population isnt impressive either and it never has been. SWG? buggy and rush released became a train wreck. Planetside? Good release, too little development. MxO? Being milked, little development. So which games were great? Becuase I can only consider the possibiilty of one being great and that game wasnt even made by SoE.

SoE has shifted its business proceedings to become like a parasite, use the marginal success (or failures) of other MMO's buy them and profit from the proceedings by reducing the costs of patching and service.

To view the recent acquirement of Vanguard positively is to throw all caution to the wind. SoE could do what they've done to past MMO's pull up a bucket and start milking it.

Accually, I believe the first 3d MMORPG was Meridian 59.

EQ was the first mainstream 3d MMORPG.

Main article: History of massively multiplayer online role-playing games

MMORPGs, as defined today, have only existed since the early 1990s.^[2] Still, all MMORPGs can trace a lineage back to the earliest multi-user games which started appearing in the late 1970s.^[2] The first of these was MUD, a non-graphical (completely text-based) world, though more would soon be developed for the PLATO system.^[9] 1984 saw a Roguelike (semi-graphical) multi-user game, called Islands of Kesmai.^[9] The first "truly" graphical multi-user RPG was Neverwinter Nights, which was delivered through America Online in 1991 and was personally championed by AOL President Steve Case.^[9]

When NSFNET restrictions were lifted in 1995, the internet was opened up to developers, and this allowed for the first really "massive" titles. The first success after this point was Meridian 59, which also featured first-person 3D graphics,^[10] although The Realm appeared nearly simultaneously and may be credited with bringing the genre to a wider player-base.^[9] Ultima Online, released in 1997, may be credited with first popularizing the genre,^[9] though Nexus: The Kingdom of the Winds was primarily responsible for mainstream attention throughout Asia and it was EverQuest that brought MMORPGs to the mainstream in the West.^[9]

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Osirus28

Originally posted by Shannia

No?  Well you should.  It is your future and I've been saying it since the day of the Sony announcement.  Same thing that is happening to Vanguard will soon happen to all things P.E.  The only assimilating that will be going on in P.E.'s future will be SoE owning two new titles from P.E.

 

It seems you do not know what your talking about. SoE is SAVING Vanguard. Without SOE, Vanguard will be dead in a few months because Sigil is running out of money. And SOE does produce good games, ever heard  of a little think called Everquest 2? If your still mad about SWG, get over it...

Look at the facts. Vanguard, a game that took 5 years and 30 million to make is doing very POORLY. They overspent and did not manage their money good enough. No other MMO has used 30 mil to make a game besides WoW. Since when has P.E. or Gods and Heroes been in danger of running out of money, or when has this title used up 30 Million to release a game still in the beta phase? Yeah, I thought so... Learn the facts before you talk next time.

 

I guess that was some other company and not P.E. that pushed back G&H again.  I guess it was some other company that lost it's CM that the community respected just a week before the same company fired about 35 staffers and moved the STO team back to HQ and then pushed STO back a year even though it has been in production longer than G&H.  Ya, P.E. wouldn't know anything about classless moves like signing on with SoE knowing the community was begging for them not to.  Ya, P.E. wouldn't know anything about laying off 1/3 of it's staff during the holidays last year.  Ya, I need to go learn my facts because P.E. is the most honest company in the MMOG industry and while I'm at it their head doesn't have a reputation for building titles only to sell them off to the highest bidder.    Ya, thanks for setting me straight.

Remember, the same company that "saved" Vanguard as you put it is the only company that would sign G&H.  Smed isn't stupid.  He knows what he is doing and you can bet that as part of their agreement to publish the game if the company needs "saving", SoE will be there to pick up the pieces for G&H and STO, just like they are doing for Vanguard.

Like it or not, your game is already owned by SoE... it is just a matter of time before it become official.

 

It's Sony Online Entertainment... not Sony online Entertainment...

You write SoE as if you're an EQ player.  If so, why bash on SOE, the producers of some pretty darn good MMOGs.

The situation with Sigil - Vanguard isn't a whole lot different than the Verant - Everquest story.  SOE took a struggling company and a struggling but promising game in, and made it their own.  Same with Vanguard.

They're not the "evil Empire", they're a business entity, looking for ways to provide products/services to customers, to grow their bottom line and their customer base.  What they do, they do well.  They've bailed McQuaid out repeatedly.  Wouldn't surprise me if they do it again sometime in the future.

As far as G&H, P&E, STO... wouldn't be a bad thing if a company with a solid history of success, a habit of saving struggling MMOGs and MMOGs-to-be and getting them out to the players, and the assets necessary to get the job done, stepped in to get these MMOGs back on track, if that's what's needed.  Blizzard sure isn't going to do it.  NCSoft isn't.  Acclaim couldn't if they wanted to.

There... that's my extremely experienced 2 cents worth.

SoE = Spirit of Eagle

SOE = Sony Onine Entertainment

Kalmenicus = Right On Target, smartest mofo ever to set MMORPG.com straight.

Jaymenicus = me

Originally posted by godpuppet

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by Samuraisword

What games(plural) has SOE made great? Matrix online? Planetside?

EQ1 was a better game before SOE took control away from Brad Mcquaid and focused on raiding and forced grouping.

EQ2 has never been a good game, was disliked by most when it was released, and has half the subscribers now.

SOE's involvement with Gods and Heroes is a negative, not a positive.

This is all your opinion as seen through your +2 Crimson Goggles of SOE Hate. Hundreds of thousands of subscribers(If not millions considering the amount of games they produce) think differently.

Bren

Edit: Oh and isn't there a sticky thread at the top of this forum for all of this BS. It's there so the rest of us that don't give a crap(the majority) don't have to deal with it. I suggest that you use it in the future for this kind of mindless SOE hate trolling as that is why the mods put it there in the first place.

The only great game SoE has had in its possession was Everquest and its success was mostly pinned on the fact it was the first and only 3D MMOG to release. Players coming into the genre were given the choice between 2d UO or 3d EQ. Even so, EQ's 'millions' were acquired over a period of 8+ years, its current population is a shadow of its former glory. EQ2, is much the same, it was buggy and rush released, its population isnt impressive either and it never has been. SWG? buggy and rush released became a train wreck. Planetside? Good release, too little development. MxO? Being milked, little development. So which games were great? Becuase I can only consider the possibiilty of one being great and that game wasnt even made by SoE.

SoE has shifted its business proceedings to become like a parasite, use the marginal success (or failures) of other MMO's buy them and profit from the proceedings by reducing the costs of patching and service.

To view the recent acquirement of Vanguard positively is to throw all caution to the wind. SoE could do what they've done to past MMO's pull up a bucket and start milking it.

Lets get some facts straight. SOE haters mostly exist because of Lucas Arts insane fubar with NGE, everyone blames SOE because they were left holding the bag.    But thats just how it goes with liscenced IPs.

EQ1 at its inception, its launch I personally thought it was pure crap.  When SOE took over it was a life saver and I gave it a second shot and stuck with it.   Granted like ANY and EVERY game company it made a few mistakes along the line (Plane's of Power was just going to far!).

EQ2  Great game, decent community, fair population (its not bloated with a bunch of jackels and jerks like *cough WoW* some games).    I was there at its beta, its released and for a good while after and I don't think it was rushed at all.   Its original game mechanic to be group heavy didn't work and they fixed it without destroying the core of the game infact its gotten better.

SWG - Blame Lucas Arts they had ultimate dictator ship control, they do with ANY game that comes out carrying the Star Wars name.

I'm not sure about planetside, is it even an MMO or just a space shooter?

MxO - the people who made it failed, infact if SOE hadn't of bought them out the game's servers would be closed today.   Its also a liscenced IP perhaps the IP owners just wont' approve development on it.   Someone must love it though its still open.

Vanguard  - rushed release, bad management, bad everything.  SOE can hopefully turn it around like they did with EQ1 because Sigil dropped the ball.   We all know it Sigil f'd up bad and they did it all before SOE even came into the picture.

I realy dont' see any reason to hate them more than anyone else.  Honestly if we hate them for their mistakes we have to hate Blizzard (coughs on the expansion evil), we have to hate NCSoft,  Definitly have to hate Square Enix (what the hell were they thinking with pre assigned servers!).

SWG doesn't count.   Its dead, it was LA's fault and they dropped the game from their radar after their FORCED push of changes backfired in their face.   We've known that SOE"s dev team and LA's design / management team have had problems together since the start if any of you remember the beta dev forums.

I totally agree with you ^^ I played EQ2 for two years and whilst some parts were rough it has been the best mmorpg I have played so far.

But, I hate to point out to the peeps that keep posting on this thread that SOE are not involved in the same capacity as they are with Vanguard.. nuff said. And we can all be thankful that if something goes wrong with PE and their funding then SOE will be there to pick up the pieces..

Originally posted by strigoivii
P.E....physical education? why would sony take over that?

Originally posted by Faelen

Originally posted by strigoivii
P.E....physical education? why would sony take over that?

Erm...do I really need to point out the abbreviation? ....no.

---

Originally posted by Shannia
Ya, P.E. wouldn't know anything about classless moves like signing on with SoE knowing the community was begging for them not to.

---

You and a couple of other loudmouths don't actually speak for "the community". Please don't pretend that everyone shares your obsessive hatred of SOE.

Originally posted by Jaymenicus

It's Sony Online Entertainment... not Sony online Entertainment...

You write SoE as if you're an EQ player.  If so, why bash on SOE, the producers of some pretty darn good MMOGs.

There... that's my extremely experienced 2 cents worth.

SoE = Spirit of Eagle

SOE = Sony Onine Entertainment

I was an EQ player myself; and writing SoE instead of...S big O and E, there is a reason.  I want to capitalize on the important aspects.

SONY online ENTERTAINMENT

Programmers and devs seems to think that online is more important then entertainment.  It is my duty, to remind them, as many other players does, that they are supposed to build something FUN, that happens to be online...not to build something online that may or not be fun.

SONY online ENTERTAINMENT.  These devs need it to be repeated until they don't forget it anymore.  These devs, when they talk, they often put way too much importance on the online component, and if they want to remain online, they better put it where it belong, not on top priority from a player point of view.  Building an online game represents many challenges for devs, for a player, it is a detail, the only important thing is that it allow you to play, the same type of games, with friends without using a hotseat.  For a programmer, it has a shitload of implications and complications, it change his job totally.  From a player perspective, the online component is merely a feature in a long list of feature, I am not even sure if it is in the TOP 10 feature of a game, that it is online or offline, from a player perspective.

what scares me about P.E. is that their entire upper staff is composed of bankers, investors, and entreprenuers within the technical markets ...

if you dont believe me do the research on their people ....

Originally posted by templarga
Well its a good thing that I got over SOE and SWG oh about 2 years ago! I personally have nothing against SOE. They are a company set to make money and they go about it just like almost every other company out there.

Not realy, other companies understand that they need to serve their customers to make money.  Sony just doesn't get it and it shows in their bottom line.

Fiscal 2006:

Gross Sales: $70,303 mil

 Net income: $1,071 mil

Margin: 1.52%

That's absolutely terrible.  My savings account has a better return. 

Originally posted by Kokushibyou

Originally posted by templarga
Well its a good thing that I got over SOE and SWG oh about 2 years ago! I personally have nothing against SOE. They are a company set to make money and they go about it just like almost every other company out there.

Not realy, other companies understand that they need to serve their customers to make money.  Sony just doesn't get it and it shows in their bottom line.

Fiscal 2006:

Gross Sales: $70,303 mil

 Net income: $1,071 mil

Margin: 1.52%

That's absolutely terrible.  My savings account has a better return. 

 

And the thread goes on... What does this have to do with G & H!

Why arent the mods shutting this down, moving it to the SOE hater thread or moving it to the vanguard forums? *shakes head*