I have wasted many hours of my adult life playing MMO's from UO to Vanguard to Eq series to EvE.  I have my beefs with Eve online but its hands down the most creative game on the market right now.  I try really hard to keep my enthuasium for games to a reasonable pitch because I understand there are a billion different opinions on everything. I know how nausious it can make people feel when fanbois get on and promote a game.  There have been a few times when my rants and tirades could be classified as anything but fanoism.

However, this allegation bull shit has got me in arms. While every developer and their dog are trying out every little gimmick they can to rehash the same ol EQ clones and EQ clone expansions over and over and over and over and over, CCP has evolved EvE into something thats just brilliant.  While big companies release amature games CCP brings flavor.

Part of the problem is related to the lure this game has.  Eve clouds the boundaries between reality and the eve-universe just a little wee bit.  For any balanced indivdual Eve politics are novel, but to the lunatics out there it provides us with opportunites to see just how massochistic (sp) and insane people can get.  There are a lot of serious people playing this game.

If you dont trust CCP then remove your credit card information from their system.  If you do trust CCP then maybe they could use a bit of fan support right now.  Yes, the supported documentation that CCP supplied on the subject could be faked, yes they could have made everything up after the fact, but I don't buy it.  I see full disclosure by a company that I have nothing but respect for.

What I find much more disturbiing is the spin less trusted sources have put on recent events.  What I find most concerning at the end of the day is the public's tendancy to latch on to something like this and cry dooms day.

I will hold CCP accountable for the things that piss me off but I think they deserve some basic respect and recognition that goes beyond my $15 for this game.  I'm crawling out of the shadows to raise up a little 'we support you ccp' tirade because the negative mojo is on a biased spin.

This whole discussion needs some claritiy and the clear truth of the fact is CCP should be evaluated by the steps they 've taken from planning to production for what is Eve online - not by the tirade of some sad folks who couldn't beat BoB.

Here here.

To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.

Seriously, just one, one...

Originally posted by Urtok

Here here.

To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.

Seriously, just one, one...

So, you can't name one, and then dismiss it as meaning less. 

Player base have ALWAYS complained of not enough dev communicaton with them.  CCP gives something no other have and you say you don't believe anything they say.  Then why ask for more dev communication when you won't believe any thing they say?  Dev interaction with the playerbase is worthless.  Based on your logic that's what you are saying.

Originally posted by Urtok

Here here.

To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.

Seriously, just one, one...

The CCP Gestapo don't report to the playerbase mate, they report to the Directors and CEO. Then the top guys workout what to cover up and how then come up with some screenies that wouldn't be worth crap on any forum as evidence.

Guess what I have a pic of that proves the CCP CEO has sex with dead dogs, the face has been blanked out however but it proves I'm correct conclusivly!

Tyhe Goons have more backing them as they have witnesses and have made their names public, the burden of proof is on CCP after they got caught with their pants down last time. Remember CCP aren't honest or decent, they covered it up but couldn't get away with it so owned up. They spun that as them being "honest and transparent" in the matter, I heard the CCP CEO is in talks with O.J Simpsons lawyer!

For the OP, agree.

---

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase. Seriously, just one, one...

---

For the quoted text, the corruption is one thing that ticks me in this game and just note have a s.c. Internal Affairs at the CCP camp. That just adds to the game atmosphere. I don't care if BoB would be invincible, I don't care if the Goons actually have a reason behind there name. EVE is the real shit, tbh.
I recently resubbed...

A quote I found in the forums at eve-online.com.

---

You want them to understand that running off with your **** will have consequences

---

Here Here!

Viral at its finest, why don't you post a picture of the CCP staff providing humanitarian aid to Darfur refugees and try to further pull the wool over everyones eyes. The cons out weigh the pros in the CCP trustworthiness scale, CCP needs to demonstrate some real reforms to regain their image in the eyes of the player base which they still haven't done. Fail at that and someone will always be starting these threads, not only here but on other boards as well so long as CCP continues to use fascist tactics on their own boards.

The Goons tactics while excessive got some results, not enough but at least a step in the right direction. There remians a huge gulf between what CCP provided and what is still needed though. Until Eve is a level playing field where CCP's staff applies the rules evenly and without bias and disassoicates themselves from the player organizations, the impression of favortism will remain and the player base will know it.

Sure some players will stick their heads in the sand and stand behind EVE regardless of the circumstances, some will never believe them again and stand proudly wearing that oft mentioned Tinfoil hats. The clear eyed self thinkers will want to see for themselves that CCP does the right thing and follows the standard in the industry in regard to staff interaction with the players and the other areas in which unfair pratices have been reported or can be abused. I for one don't stand behind EVE at the moment, but that doesn't mean that I can't change my mind, EVE can have that untarnished image if CCP does the right thing.

I agree, while the goons had to resort to being  a 4 year old having a temper tantrum, CCP has come out of this with aplomb.

CCP's problem now is how to rein in BoB without making major changes to the game.

[quote]Originally posted by Ciredric
CCP's problem now is how to rein in BoB without making major changes to the game.[/b][/quote]

They could stop giving BOB special favors like extra blueprints and 30 second response to issues (vs days or weeks for everyone else). Or would that qualify as major changes to the game?

---

Originally posted by Urtok
Here here.
To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.
Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.
Seriously, just one, one...

---

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Urtok

Here here.

To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.

Seriously, just one, one...

The CCP Gestapo don't report to the playerbase mate, they report to the Directors and CEO. Then the top guys workout what to cover up and how then come up with some screenies that wouldn't be worth crap on any forum as evidence.

Guess what I have a pic of that proves the CCP CEO has sex with dead dogs, the face has been blanked out however but it proves I'm correct conclusivly!

Tyhe Goons have more backing them as they have witnesses and have made their names public, the burden of proof is on CCP after they got caught with their pants down last time. Remember CCP aren't honest or decent, they covered it up but couldn't get away with it so owned up. They spun that as them being "honest and transparent" in the matter, I heard the CCP CEO is in talks with O.J Simpsons lawyer!

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Urtok

Here here.

To support you in this, I offer an example of thier uniqness.

Name one other developer/studio that has an Internal Affairs department that reports to the playerbase.

Seriously, just one, one...

The CCP Gestapo don't report to the playerbase mate, they report to the Directors and CEO. Then the top guys workout what to cover up and how then come up with some screenies that wouldn't be worth crap on any forum as evidence.

Guess what I have a pic of that proves the CCP CEO has sex with dead dogs, the face has been blanked out however but it proves I'm correct conclusivly!

Tyhe Goons have more backing them as they have witnesses and have made their names public, the burden of proof is on CCP after they got caught with their pants down last time. Remember CCP aren't honest or decent, they covered it up but couldn't get away with it so owned up. They spun that as them being "honest and transparent" in the matter, I heard the CCP CEO is in talks with O.J Simpsons lawyer!

<mod edit> This is not the corporations and alliances summit - this rhetoric and propaganda has no merit and no purpose.

How does this help eve exactly?

Originally posted by Whiskey6

Viral at its finest, why don't you post a picture of the CCP staff providing humanitarian aid to Darfur refugees and try to further pull the wool over everyones eyes. The cons out weigh the pros in the CCP trustworthiness scale, CCP needs to demonstrate some real reforms to regain their image in the eyes of the player base which they still haven't done. Fail at that and someone will always be starting these threads, not only here but on other boards as well so long as CCP continues to use fascist tactics on their own boards.

The Goons tactics while excessive got some results, not enough but at least a step in the right direction. There remians a huge gulf between what CCP provided and what is still needed though. Until Eve is a level playing field where CCP's staff applies the rules evenly and without bias and disassoicates themselves from the player organizations, the impression of favortism will remain and the player base will know it.

Sure some players will stick their heads in the sand and stand behind EVE regardless of the circumstances, some will never believe them again and stand proudly wearing that oft mentioned Tinfoil hats. The clear eyed self thinkers will want to see for themselves that CCP does the right thing and follows the standard in the industry in regard to staff interaction with the players and the other areas in which unfair pratices have been reported or can be abused. I for one don't stand behind EVE at the moment, but that doesn't mean that I can't change my mind, EVE can have that untarnished image if CCP does the right thing.

I have 300++ posts on this forum and have been a member since  05. You have 42 posts and for once that number is not the answer to "everything".

You also get a tin foil hat. Anyone who knows me knows that I have been less than a fan boy.

but oh wait i must be on the CCP payrol - wheres my free sub and MSN access to teh devs??

I remember a time when CCP was denying anyone on their staff cheated while T20 came out and admitted to it.  I'm sure CCP informed their staff that they are never, never supposed to admit to anything.   Have they admitted to anything since then, nope.  Hell, they have had many many inappropriateness since then, many instances, yet people still think they are innocent?  lets walk thru just some of the instances:

1)  BOB knew of the upper limit on how many ships where allowed in their system, while others didn't.  Possible they reached this limit while in game and found out thru normal game play, but more likely they were informed by their CCP buddies on MSN.

2) BOB is still alive even though a huge force went out to destroy them.  The fact that T20 did admit to some cheating, probably not all, and that CCP is catering to BOB because BOB has been able to use ways to collect ISK that others are prohibited from using by CCP.  (if someone is farming certain areas its notified as cheating, yet BOB is doing this non-stop).

3)  Volunteer fired within 3 hours of bumping someone?  get this straight.  He denies bumping them, planned to avoid just that, yet They take BOB's word for it and fire the volunteer.  BOB admitted to having an MSN IM communication method, bypassing normal petition methods...

4)  BOB isn't dead.  if everyone went after an organization, you'd expect that organization to be destroyed.  The mere fact that BOB isn't dead shows that they have CCP help in many different ways.  Did we talk about their mothership, and how they gained that thru inside info?  having readily available resources to complete a "surprise" event to get the ship.  When you consider their MSN communication line, its not all that surprising.

5)  Goonswarm was not allowed to be friends with a GM/CCP employee.  why is BOB allowed them though?  You've got CCP employees not able to talk on a forum with Goonswarm, yet CCP employees are in the BOB alliance, and were in leadership positions.  Look at T20, he was in charge a large portion of their fleet.   Is it surprising that they are well organized when CCP employees are in command of BOB's fleet (more aply named BOD).

there are other instances, but why bother going into them ad nasuem.   Fanatics of Eve would still deny that T20 ever did anything wrong.  CCP's problem is that they don't want to limit their playing the game, yet they aren't limiting their god powers while they play.  Its also hard to limit CCP employees when they can contact their co-workers to cheat for them....

I understood the scamming and cheating and exploitation eventually, and realized I shouldn't spend my money on a game that promotes such.  Its not a part of the culture, its more than just a part.   I feel sorry for anyone playing Eve Online.  You have my sympathy.  I have no sympathy for CCP though.  They created the bed they are lying in.  CCP isn't just the creators of a corrupt game, they are an active part of the corruption.

Originally posted by blackcat35

I remember a time when CCP was denying anyone on their staff cheated while T20 came out and admitted to it.  I'm sure CCP informed their staff that they are never, never supposed to admit to anything.   Have they admitted to anything since then, nope.  Hell, they have had many many inappropriateness since then, many instances, yet people still think they are innocent?  lets walk thru just some of the instances:

1)  BOB knew of the upper limit on how many ships where allowed in their system, while others didn't.  Possible they reached this limit while in game and found out thru normal game play, but more likely they were informed by their CCP buddies on MSN.

2) BOB is still alive even though a huge force went out to destroy them.  The fact that T20 did admit to some cheating, probably not all, and that CCP is catering to BOB because BOB has been able to use ways to collect ISK that others are prohibited from using by CCP.  (if someone is farming certain areas its notified as cheating, yet BOB is doing this non-stop).

3)  Volunteer fired within 3 hours of bumping someone?  get this straight.  He denies bumping them, planned to avoid just that, yet They take BOB's word for it and fire the volunteer.  BOB admitted to having an MSN IM communication method, bypassing normal petition methods...

4)  BOB isn't dead.  if everyone went after an organization, you'd expect that organization to be destroyed.  The mere fact that BOB isn't dead shows that they have CCP help in many different ways.  Did we talk about their mothership, and how they gained that thru inside info?  having readily available resources to complete a "surprise" event to get the ship.  When you consider their MSN communication line, its not all that surprising.

5)  Goonswarm was not allowed to be friends with a GM/CCP employee.  why is BOB allowed them though?  You've got CCP employees not able to talk on a forum with Goonswarm, yet CCP employees are in the BOB alliance, and were in leadership positions.  Look at T20, he was in charge a large portion of their fleet.   Is it surprising that they are well organized when CCP employees are in command of BOB's fleet (more aply named BOD).

there are other instances, but why bother going into them ad nasuem.   Fanatics of Eve would still deny that T20 ever did anything wrong.  CCP's problem is that they don't want to limit their playing the game, yet they aren't limiting their god powers while they play.  Its also hard to limit CCP employees when they can contact their co-workers to cheat for them....

I understood the scamming and cheating and exploitation eventually, and realized I shouldn't spend my money on a game that promotes such.  Its not a part of the culture, its more than just a part.   I feel sorry for anyone playing Eve Online.  You have my sympathy.  I have no sympathy for CCP though.  They created the bed they are lying in.  CCP isn't just the creators of a corrupt game, they are an active part of the corruption.

I don't like the alledged favortism because it makes me feel bad for the pvp pilots in the BoB rank and file.  I've been shot down by BoB so many times but I didn't cry bugs or sploits. I was shot down because they were better which is at least 99.9 % of why they are where they are. 

I was really pissed off that ASCN collapsed under the yoak of BoB. ASCN had 4000 people in it and there were some laggy buggy battles.  But ASCN lost because the carebears wouldnt stop mining and the FC was terrible, not because of 1 fight in 1 system with 1 buggy PoS.

It upsets me because one black mark on a small group of people invalidates large groups of average people.  The T20 issue and this issue are seperate in the sense that the Goon's mail is designed to undermine CCP's authority and that is just not good for Eve or anyone who plays it.

The average player doesn't care much for the defamation attempts of recent groups because they see the game for what it really is.  I like ot talk about and even complain game features. I like to talk to players or non players about the mechanics of this game.  But the defamation attempts provide no construct on which to have a reasonable conversation.

At the end of the day you need to decide : CCP "cheats" or they don't.  My common sense sways in the favor of the multidollar business who's bread and butter is stake.