Flute, I think your post was brilliant! Essentially you have precisely summed up what most of the posters here intended to say, some not as eloquently.

 But- you play a Dwarf! You realize that to the pedophile age-players out there whose WoW dwarves and Gnomes= kiddiePorno, or to the little people of the world who inhabit the small Avatar, and to those of us who ONLY play with people who are RL short playing a short character, you're a height faker! Oh the injustices. How dare you be a big person playing a shortie McShort shorts on a video game flutie? Faker, faker faker! DECIEVER!

:P

<3

Phay

 

nice post
Actually i do find myself asking why the heck do they give me stuff in games sometimes, like do they think i can't get it for myself???!! Heh, heh. Eventually i give up and just mail them back a gift in return. No offense, i like working for my own stuff most of the times. Why else would i be playing?
It also pisses me off when folks make avatars with female derogatory names, its so childish and disrespectful along with them saying crap like, its that time of the month. If you are a woman doing that, I am ashamed that you are actually a female; and if you are a man/boy... well... I think you may need so psychiatric help....

Originally posted by Flute

Originally posted by ladyattis

I guess I'm a tad po'd at the title of "Gender faker" primarily because being that I am transgendered this generally smacks of a hostile attitude toward folks like myself. ...

I expect that as with so many other things this article simply picked up and used the existing stereotypes without pausing to think at all about whether reinforcing them was a good idea.  The title "Gender faker" does inherently include the assumption that by playing a gender different to the player's own they are somehow "faking" (with an implication that doing so is "bad" and should be spotted) when these are role playing games, so the starting point is that an elven female avatar is a female elf, regardless of who is at the keyboard.  I wonder if the writer will explore that aspect in a follow-up article.

Rubbish stereotypes abound in MMORPGs, and have for a long time, for example in this response posted somewhere above in the thread:

In any MMO I automatically assume a female character is 'driven' by a male gamer, unless I learn otherwise. And often enough, the girls have some of the toughest chars I've met ingame and I find myself suprised to learn the gamer behind the char is a girl (or woman!) in real life.

So not only "if you play this game you must be male" which you have to disprove, but "if you are good you cannot be female" - which is complete and utter rubbish.  The most devastating combo I ever had in SWG space combat was myself and a RL friend (2 women) - we left a lot of pretty spakly Rebel spacedust for a while, and I expect that those we flew against would certainly have said "those guys were lethal".   We were - when flying as a team we never lost a fighter in PvP (inherently nimble ships, harvesting, master shipwright, reverse engineering and shopping skills for the win!  We had those ships tweaked down to the last few mass units).

And as for transgendered people, the only people I know are a successful artist (F), a top manager (M), a high-level advisor to the military (F), and a senior lawyer (F); they are all overachievers and are not "faking" anything, and they really do not fit the "television stereotypes" that most people have been spoon-fed by shows such as CSI New York or CSI Las Vegas.  I doubt many people would argue that there is not a background hostile attitude out there towards folks in the transgendered community still, I am sure that attitude is expressed in MMORPGs as in any other aspect of social life, possibly more so due to the youth-bias in that community.

For my own part the priest dwarven female is a "she", and I want her to heal me when my health bar is fast falling to nil - I don't really care whether it is some 60 year old guy from Michigan sitting a the keyboard or not, although it's usually not that hard to tell after a while.  And for me someone who was "MtF" is a she ("F") - she always was, having been set on that path before birth.  That there are people out there who might be both (M+F), neither, bit of each or just not sure yet in no way diminishes that they are all people, and if they are playing a priest etc in an MMORPG with me I want them to heal me anyway before my character hits the dust. 

Western societies are generally based on Yes/No dicotomy when biologically players are on complex interlinking spectra not a set of single dicotomies, so there are always going to be issues.  I can't remember seeing an MMORPG game where even the aliens were not built into a "male/female" dicotomy, despite various sci-fi novels having explored alternate biological models for aliens in admirable depth.  Possibly why Dorids are typically never playable - no gender, so it is harder for people to relate to the character.

Hate to go with a stereotype myself, but overall MMORPGs still seem to be very much mostly designed by guys for guys, and it is entirely unsurprising that the end result lends itself to things that are quite biased and promote stereotypes.  A couple of simple examples - if a WoW dawarven female "bounced" that much she would probably either promtly kill whoever made her support garments or never run for the pain, and WoW warlocks can only have scantily clad female succubi slapping themselves provocatively: there is no option for a female avatar to have a male succubus instead.  The best so far (until they killed it) was in my view SW:G which had such a range of dances and clothing that people could do as they pleased - you could be modest and dance elegantly if you wanted to, which was a refreshing change while it lasted (*mumbles something about NGE being a complete disaster*).

And for all you guys out there who swear by "prove it by Ventrillo" remember that really can be "faked".  A RL friend (M) of mine had a female character in one game where he shamelessly "worked it" for every single gold piece he could fleece off his guild mates, strangers, anyone.  They had a big guild meeting to "meet up" on Vent, so he just had his fiancee speak for him and forever more "she" was a "she for sure" to the guild.  Just goes to show that you should just play the game for what it is; if you get hung up on who is sitting at the keyboard behind the avatar you are hitting on or making possibly invalid assumptions about then your paranoia will get you eventually

"Yes, of course I'm an elf in real life!"
"No you're not, be gone from my presence, Tauren!".

Flute

Nice post but I think you missed the intent of the article, personally it doesn't matter to me who's behind the toon, but players, especially newer players, get suckered everyday. Usually this just amounts to said mark being relieved of cash and valuables, some kids, and even adults, don't have a clue that someone even would play a character other than their own gender to do this. On the darker, and usually unspoken, side of this is those who use it to meet with younger children.

While most older players already realize all this I'm sure some newbies have read this and walked away with a little more "street smarts" in their dealings with other players. Some may not like them being told at all. The article isn't attacking people just for playing another gender but rather exposing those who use it to abuse it.

You yourself exposed the fact that even the voice can be faked (one of the highest payed "female" phone sex operators was actually a guy, I remember seeing a show about him a number of years back), why should it be wrong for the article to do the same? I don't know if you have kids, or if you do if they're old enough to play, but if you did wouldn't you, as an experienced gamer yourself, tell them? I'm sure you would (at some point). Why then shouldn't there be an article for those who don't have someone there to tell them?

BTW I do agree that many games seem stereotyped towards males, When the 4th Coming was in beta that only had male puppets and no plans to add female, a woman I knew played and use to jokingly complain about having to walk funny because of something hanging between her legs. It wasn't until much much later, when they realized how many females actually played, they added female puppets. Many others either look like the girls guys would like to see in porn movies or (even creepier to me) little girls. Some games even force you into a particular sex depending on what class you want to play, 9 Dragons is a good example of that, there was another, the name escapes me at the moment, where if you wanted to be an elf you had to be female, all others were male.

Part of that is the designers and part of that is the culture where some games come from, female equality isn't exactly the norm on this planet. The only way that's really going to change is if the companies get hit in the pocket book, and that's unlikely since there will always be enough guys who will fork out money for a game just to watch that "bounce".

It would be nice to see a game a little more balanced and realistic with the puppets, but artists always like to show off, ego is part of being an artist. People have wanted a more fluid customization for years but the most we've seen so far is face/hair/height A-E.

I can't say this is a good article on how to spot a gender faker. Everyone is different and have their own ways of expressing themselves. I know many females who do some of the things that were listed in article. It never means that they are a faker in any kind of way. There is a whole lot of girls (in the anime scene) who do say *tee hee* loves to show off, dance, etc. Basically, I'd say either male or female, let them have their fun. If they try to gain somthing for nothing, karma always come's back to get them in the end.

My sister plays MMO's and she acts very jolly in game and such, yet their are always guys and girls out there looking for other people to prove themselves. Yeah I seen actual femals trying to find out if my sister is an actual female. It's crazy. In all truthfulness I don't there there is no real way to tell if someone is who they seem to be. Most of the real ways takes paience and not assumption, becuase what if your wrong? Then you just messed yourself up. In all honestly I don't think you should worry about these kinds of things. If you don't then you wouldn't need to worry about such things.

Instead someone needs to make an articale on equal treatment (to spot people who just want your items/money and who is not trying to use you) rather than how to spot a gender faker. It's a MMORPG for craying out loud. Gotta chill. With people trying to spot gender fakers it makes things less fun. Also female characters play male characters so what about that. Just not valid. Show people how to tell who their friends are and who is just there to use and abuse than rather making somthin like this. I find THAT kind of infomation more vaulable to the MMO community than trying to play the guessing game.

A journalists most important work is to create a debate. AJ certainly did good here.

I went searching for facts on the net and found several market surveys with interesting information.

1. 30% of all players are girls. Take 3 players and one of them will be a girl !
2. Girls are much more likely to play MMO's than other games (the social aspect maybe). This means that the ratio of girls are actually more than the 30% (which was for all games). So it might look like it is closer to being 4 out of 10 are girls.

These numbers are measure every year by ELSPA, which is the UK producers association, and as far as I have the numbers back, this has been so.

It is said games are not a girls world, but MMO's just might become just that.

    I have to agree with this article, especially about names.  What  self-repecting woman would name herself, HonneyBunns, or Little Lover?  These are players on TIbia, I like see these guys and I always laugh and say get real dude!

One of the best articles i have ever read here.
i copied all this stuff down in a notebookso i can refer to it when i bump into a "girl" in any game.
Fakers Beware.

Originally posted by sbowling
Is is just me, or have the articles on this site started to really suck lately? When you write such a stupid article, you should expect a bunch of stupid replies.

It's not just you...

Kalmenicus knows.

I forgot to throw my cred on the articale to show that it can be a little valid, but dont take things word for word. I know girls that are real huslers in MMO's and Real girls. They will rob you of their stuff even if you don't even know.

I'm a female gamer and I've been playing MMOs for a long time. I was amused by the article. Good read. The thing that bothers me is that more and more people take the games waaaaayyyyy too seriously. I still won't forget about that guy in China who killed another gamer over a sword. I understand there is some amount of seriousness and pride when it comes to ones hobbies, but there is a point when you just need to let it go. I've roleplayed characters in MMOs where my purpose was to get items/coin from others and to take advantage of them. I was a rogue, a knave, a bard intent on pickpocketing or spinning a tale to attain goods. Did it work? Sometimes and sometimes not. Another time I was a fierce female warrior bent on attaining strength and items for myself and helping to protect and supply others. Does the sex of the character really matter?

Get this; I played a male rogue and decided to hit on female AVs for fun. Apparently I'm really good at it because two of them actually gave me really nice items after I told them stories of my woes. I played a male enchanter in EQ and I was getting women wanting to send me RL photos of themselves and their numbers. <----- THAT is where I draw the line. When I'm playing a game I like to KEEP it a game. Once you start throwing around RL information it can get ugly fast and also kills my imagination. In the past when I didn't mean to give out personal information I trashed my character and made a new one. I play female and male toons and it depends on what I feel like roleplaying at the time of creation.

Will this article help others? Maybe if they are new gamers and didn't know that people were doing this, otherwise it just fuels a debate or makes you laugh. Many have known about it for years and still continue to be had. In RL this occurs when you trust and believe in others. I had a friend in EQ who fell in love with another player. He got married to her in the game and spent a very long time acquiring armor, weapons and other items for her just to find out she was a man. That female AV disappeared never to be seen again. My friend was really heartbroken. So, what did he do? Heh, he did it again. (Warning: For politically correct lovers I'm about to make a gender stereotype) In closing, MEN are dense.

Funny. I read the OP but started ignoring the posts when they started flaming.

I thought I'd just mention a funny thing that occurred to me as I read this post. I play MMOs with my girlfriend. We've used teamspeak and vent in different MMOs over the years. When other people realize she's a r/l female, they always behave better.

There's usually a big difference when there's a female online compared to when it's "just the boys." People aren't nearly as rude or crass or offensive when she's online. Also, guilds are much quicker to invite me (us) to raids when she is online.

I could get into the reasons for it, but that would just be flame-bait and I'm not interested in keeping track of all that.

Thanks for the OP, it's a fun read.
- Phos

i just wanted to say this but u do get xp in swg for danceing its its own profferson

Just ask them to come on vent. It's the only way to know for sure.

I neglected to mention that, as a female gamer, I have a few male avatars.  When you play a game for so long, once in a while when you make a new character, you want some variety.  One thing that I have noticed is that when I play male characters, no one hits on them at all.  They just leave you alone.  Also, some people seem to think it's pretty darn funny.  The reactions I've gotten on teamspeak when playing a male char range from, "Who are you?" to, "THAT'S SO FREAKING AWESOME!  A CHICK PLAYING A GUY!" 

When it comes down to it, most of us are playing games to have a blast, not go date hunting.  With this in mind, I don't think it really matters if you're playing a guy, a girl, or a 6 foot bunny rabbit.  You're just wasting time and enjoying yourself.

 

 

All in all, I found this article to be a summary of stereotypes. But if stereotypes didn't exist, there wouldn't be a word for them. They are all based on things that many of us female gamers have experienced. I've played many MMOG's over the years and I've come across my fair share of people who have treated me differently for being a woman. But that was more often seen 4+ years ago then now, it's amazing what a difference a couple of years make when dealing with internet activities. :)

The one thing I was surprised to see was 3. She never complains. And the example about being asked how the persons day was, then implying that the female would go on and on about how bad her day was. I do not find that to be accurate at all. Almost every female that I game with, myself included, are just the opposite. We want our privacy, we're playing a game to get away from real life so why would we rehash the day in a game chatbox?

If I'm asked how my day was, I'll say "fine, thanks" or "not bad" and that is that. No elaboration. The rest of the article was, like I said above, stereotypes that we've read in SO many other articles. I'm quite tired of this issue and think that it's been written about quite badly too many times.

I'm playing games to play a game. Not to figure out who my quest partner is in real life. And if I did want to know if that female character was a man in real life, you better believe I'm not going to base my judgement on the amount of dancing they do or the name they pick (but honestly, why would I ever need to know if the person was a man or a woman?).

Also, hop onto one of the girl gamer websites and check out some of the name databases and name generator suggestions, you'll see right there that your number 6 is inaccurate.

Like someone else said, "A journalists most important work is to create a debate". If that was the goal, you succeeded. But as a first article, I would think it would be smarter to write something based on fact.

The article amused me but in reality it doesn't matter who's behind the pixels, be it man or woman.  As a female gamer I somewhat resent guys attitudes towards me.  I'm offered help more than guys are, I'm offered items, and asked if I need "anything" while in game.  And its just as bad in vent.  I don't know how many times I've heard one guy spill out something crude/inflammitory/offensive only to be jumped on by another (sometimes more than one) guildie with something like "Dude, shut up there a girl in vent."

WTF?!

I'm female, yes, but that doesnt mean I should be treated any differently than anyone else in the guild.  I can't count the number of times I've gotten into vent with someone who didnt know me and heard, "OMG its a girl!"  Like we're a dying species or something.

Girls DO play games.  Alot of them won't speak in vent or say that they really are a girl because of the BS we have to put up with.  If I beat someone in a duel they get laughed at because they were beaten by a girl.... Because I happen to have breasts means its something amazing for me to be a good player?!  I don't know how many people have asked me to cyber. WTF? Just because you can't get laid IRL doesnt mean anyone in the game want to e-sex your dumbazz either.  I really don't mind guildies wanting to help me out... its great for a guild to be like a family.  But when I'm the one being singled out and asked if I, specifically, need anything, anything at all... it gets annoying.  I'm not helpless, I'm not a user, and no I don't need your help while I'm solo grinding, or your gold to train, or anything else for that matter.

Alot of girls I know feel the same way.  We want to be treated as gamers, not as girl gamers.  The reproductive equiptment your born with shouldn't matter.  Its how you play and what you can do that counts. 

There is no gender fakers.

It's MMORPG -> RP = Roleplaying

When people start playing the game and not thinking who is the real life person behind the character.

Nice post but I think you missed the intent of the article, personally it doesn't matter to me who's behind the toon, but players, especially newer players, get suckered everyday.

They only get "suckered" because they forget that the game is only the game, and try to go behind it for something that it was never designed for. 

The approach I have always liked best is:
1.  Never ever give your real name to anyone in a game, no ifs.  Never. 

2.  Play the game first and get a grip with the community - some WoW servers I found the community simply revolting, oddly enough the Horde side on the RPPvP server I play on now is actually a really nice community, better than the PvE servers I tried.  Go figure.  Besides, BE's look good, even if they have only a few really nice haistryles.  Where is playable Dark Iron Dwarf when you want one ?

3.  Stay interested, and play the game on a home network.  Nothing say "move along citizen, nothing to see here" like a discrete tell indicating that the direction the conversation is heading is not acceptable, or just say "pssst she's 12, please play nice" - whether it's true or not, pretty much anyone who isn't also 12 will back off.  If not, well you're still watching and if it's not time to read a book instead decent games prioritise harassment reports for their GM queues. 

4.  Don't kill the fun, but do think things through.  MMOs are not something to let kids rush into, if there are 8.5 million subscribers in a game it almost certainly has everyone - really lovely people, right through to people you don't want to be there (and that the company would probably want to boot too).  There are some really great PC offline and PS2 etc games.

I don't care who is at the computer, male or female it's a game and that's all, whether someone wants it to be more than that or not.  It's great to have fun online with online friends, but unless you know them in real life you really don't know them at all.  Which is why playing online with people you know in real life is just such a great way to go

I'm not going to be very popular by saying this, but in 2 years of playing World of Warcraft, I've learned to instinctively feel who "could" be a woman player. As I've been a tank for those 2 years, never left Prot spec longer than 1 Hour, Including lvls 10-60, I've had to learn to pay attention to other players, and their behavior, and I've found that most real women players do indeed not fit the profile of overexaggerated feminine behavior.

The rule I substract from this instinct, is that 9 out of 10 female players, seems to get "distracted" very fast. Apparently paying too much attention to the beautiful coloring of the instance, or that flower in the corner, or perhaps even scared of the virtual mice, THAT I do not know, but whenever I encounter someone that seems to be always doing something other than what they're supposed to be doing in such an obvious way that its almost ridiculously hilarious, 9 out of 10 responds positive to the question whether they are female players.

At the same time, 8 out of these 9 players, are stíll more capable players than most male players I've encountered. Where every Cliché about hunters is true for most of the instances, where you have to litterally téach male players how to play, because they have to press teh red buttonzzzz, female players wait. They wait for the tank, they usually don't run up ahead going boom-baby and they want to structure things just as much as I like to. In other words, the only times my experience with female players were bad ones, was when I tried to teach them something and they left the party within miliseconds. Women cannot, ever, take pointers, unléss, you do it with flowers, the sucking up, and everything you ever threw at your girlfriend. ( And I don't do that ingame :P)

And yes, I am overexaggerating a bit, as is the OP.

on star wars galacies you can be a dancer and get xp , but anyway not those loser guys who play as girls know what to not do to make themselves be more like a girl so this article is kind of helps them, but at least it helps you know what to look out for