I played for e few weeks and explored the NGE grinding my 80 up to level 90 and checking everything out on Bria

It's dead unfortunately, maybe there were a new breed of players that stay home and decorate but on Must/Rori/Eisley/Kash/Space and just about anywhere else you'd expect to see some semblance of a population there was merely a trickle, and its about 18 months since NGE came along to relaunch the game

The main reason its dead is that players don't need each other any more and that's the saddest thing. Even if there were 25million people logged into Bria the game would still feel empty. Interdependency got thrown out of the window with the loot/repeat syndrome brought about by SOE.

No smugglers slicing armour, no docs buffing, instead dancers just offer a slight xp bonus that we used to get from grouping.

The removal of group bonuses has killed this game along with the removal of any player-generated edge that other players could offer in the form of crafting/buffs/slicing/clothing/BE'ing/citybonuses. Maybe certain elements were overeloborate and time consuming to complete before you could engage in gameplay...GOOD!!!!, I can log into xbox live and teabag Germans on CoD3 within 2 minutes of flicking the switch on, I wanted to play a game that involved tooling-up, preparation and attention to detail

One of the saddest facts to confirm how badly they screwed up is that they keep putting back things ingame that they took away. If Smed didn't say they screwed up then why do they put back in auto-aim, pets and just about everything they got rid of? No-one asked for a level system, nine professions or a fps but we got it and we all left in droves, that is a mistake and you don't need a business degree to figure it out.  They needed to keep their existing customers and attract new ones or simply dump the game and start agin from scratch

The game is dead, you don't need to convince us otherwise, or to tell us we're wrong.

If you really feel the need to try to convince us then post some screenshots, I hear a lot of bullshit that we don't know what we're talking about since we run around on a trial account etc, in that case just post some screenies of anything, a map radar, a chat tab, anything that indicates that you're playing with something resembling a population that is slightly interested in something more than 30 players involved in a gankfest in Restuss, which I might add is not SWG, it's just plain sad.

Originally posted by milton1970

I played for e few weeks and explored the NGE grinding my 80 up to level 90 and checking everything out on Bria

It's dead unfortunately, maybe there were a new breed of players that stay home and decorate but on Must/Rori/Eisley/Kash/Space and just about anywhere else you'd expect to see some semblance of a population there was merely a trickle, and its about 18 months since NGE came along to relaunch the game

The main reason its dead is that players don't need each other any more and that's the saddest thing. Even if there were 25million people logged into Bria the game would still feel empty. Interdependency got thrown out of the window with the loot/repeat syndrome brought about by SOE.

No smugglers slicing armour, no docs buffing, instead dancers just offer a slight xp bonus that we used to get from grouping.

The removal of group bonuses has killed this game along with the removal of any player-generated edge that other players could offer in the form of crafting/buffs/slicing/clothing/BE'ing/citybonuses. Maybe certain elements were overeloborate and time consuming to complete before you could engage in gameplay...GOOD!!!!, I can log into xbox live and teabag Germans on CoD3 within 2 minutes of flicking the switch on, I wanted to play a game that involved tooling-up, preparation and attention to detail

One of the saddest facts to confirm how badly they screwed up is that they keep putting back things ingame that they took away. If Smed didn't say they screwed up then why do they put back in auto-aim, pets and just about everything they got rid of? No-one asked for a level system, nine professions or a fps but we got it and we all left in droves, that is a mistake and you don't need a business degree to figure it out.  They needed to keep their existing customers and attract new ones or simply dump the game and start agin from scratch

The game is dead, you don't need to convince us otherwise, or to tell us we're wrong.

If you really feel the need to try to convince us then post some screenshots, I hear a lot of bullshit that we don't know what we're talking about since we run around on a trial account etc, in that case just post some screenies of anything, a map radar, a chat tab, anything that indicates that you're playing with something resembling a population that is slightly interested in something more than 30 players involved in a gankfest in Restuss, which I might add is not SWG, it's just plain sad.

 

 

This is on Dant two nights ago. I am sure the haters will find some fault with it:

Thanks Baronjuju, nice comeback and I'm not going to be picking faults with anything. Nice to see a healthy group of folks quite frankly

I'm not here to flame I just want to know if it really is busy  without all the regular arguments we keep on seeing here on the boards all the time. What server are you on?

Originally posted by milton1970

Thanks Baronjuju, nice comeback and I'm not going to be picking faults with anything. Nice to see a healthy group of folks quite frankly

I'm not here to flame I just want to know if it really is busy  without all the regular arguments we keep on seeing here on the boards all the time. What server are you on?

 

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Sepulcher

You are 11.4583% inaccurate!  See i can make up statistics too.

I hope you and the other 5 people playing the new version are having fun though, the 300,000 of us that were playing before they messed it up must be wrong.

Isn't it enough you guys have your own forum to post this sort of thing? Why do you insist on defying the rules of conduct? Someone take your wittle video game away?

Newsflash...its 2007 . Done, over, you loose. Write a letter to SOE or something, players aren't interested in how "wonderful" it WAS 2 plus years ago, tediously grinding Bols and being forced to grind everything to include tying your darn shoes while fighting a totally broken game.

Originally posted by starman999
one question ju ju..............

dont bullshit me, is that normal nightly occurence or was that a one shot deal? Even games with low populations get random crowds from time to time. It looked like a lot of same guild members were in attendance which also accounts for so many people congregated in one place.

To be honest, I am not really sure how often the are done. My guild invited me to the event just before it started. From what my guildmates say its not a nightly type ordeal but it is every few days.

As far as the guilds go there were quite a few there:

DUNE (My guild)
MASC
RMNT
PL-NF
DEATH
WRATH
SOD
MOBB
COR
ROMAN
VEA
SIREN
JPX
ISL
WAFFE

I'm sure there is a couple I missed.

The rebels did try to put up a fight but numbers simply favored us this time. They were able to set a few turrets out at a previous location and take a few of the folks out but at the end it turned into hit and run attacks by a slew of Spies and BH's finding easy prey. All in all it was fun.

Here you guys go another screenie from Bloodfin from Sunday night.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x1/dfolsom77/screenShot0016.jpg

Milton please notice the doc/med buffing people. 

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

This is on Dant two nights ago. I am sure the haters will find some fault with it:

Oh, I do....

First, I imagine that is Bria based on the pop, and it is large. I see it's Bloodfin from another post.

Second, the REASON there are so many players is that they're base busting to grind GCW points, which I believe is considered exploiting based on what I've read on the O-forums. It's an incredibly sad statement itself of just how lame the GCW is, and the game mechanics of the NGE... yeah, that's how a REAL General would do it, LOL...

...oh, and way to exploit... at least that's what I've read people complaining about... and if I'm mistaken about what's going on, please elaborate...

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

This is on Dant two nights ago. I am sure the haters will find some fault with it:

Oh, I do....

First, I imagine that is Bria based on the pop, and it is large. I see it's Bloodfin from another post.

Second, the REASON there are so many players is that they're base busting to grind GCW points, which I believe is considered exploiting based on what I've ready on the O-forums. It's an incredibly sad statement itself of just how lame the GCW is, and the game mechanics of the NGE... yeah, that's how a REAL General would do it, LOL...

...oh, and way to exploit... at least that's what I've read people complaining about... and if I'm mistaken about what's going on, please elaborate...

Oh... pwnt.  Lawlz @ the exploiterz

Originally posted by MX13

Oh, I do....

First, I imagine that is Bria based on the pop, and it is large. I see it's Bloodfin from another post.

Second, the REASON there are so many players is that they're base busting to grind GCW points, which I believe is considered exploiting based on what I've ready on the O-forums. It's an incredibly sad statement itself of just how lame the GCW is, and the game mechanics of the NGE... yeah, that's how a REAL General would do it, LOL...

...oh, and way to exploit... at least that's what I've read people complaining about... and if I'm mistaken about what's going on, please elaborate...

Nope your wrong not an exploit if you do it the correct way. There was an exploit where people where going in setting off one terminal and then the owner of the base would go blow it up and everyone would get credit. They avoided the countdown timer and got the points instantly. That was the exploit.  What you see maybe frowned upon by some player but it is perfectly legal within the game. The bases have a 4hr timer on them before they go active. So to me it is more of a social event with a pvp mixin.

Now there is nothing wrong with what the picture he posted shows. You actually have a good time socializing and when imps and rebs show up you have some pretty darn good pvp battles. 

Again no matter what anyone post you guys will never accept it. Nothing will ever be good enough there will always be some excuse.

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

This is on Dant two nights ago. I am sure the haters will find some fault with it:

Oh, I do....

First, I imagine that is Bria based on the pop, and it is large. I see it's Bloodfin from another post.

Second, the REASON there are so many players is that they're base busting to grind GCW points, which I believe is considered exploiting based on what I've read on the O-forums. It's an incredibly sad statement itself of just how lame the GCW is, and the game mechanics of the NGE... yeah, that's how a REAL General would do it, LOL...

...oh, and way to exploit... at least that's what I've read people complaining about... and if I'm mistaken about what's going on, please elaborate...

LOL thanks for proving my point, and in record time I may add! I can read you kids like a book (comic)

First, were you upset its Bloodfin? 

So its exploting when the opposing faction puts down bases and we find them and blow them up, while fighting reb players? You guys are reaching for anything now.  Tell me what part of the mechanics were we exploiting? Oh oh I know...we should have had less folks right? Ah I see, then when I took the photos then you guys would cry server populations being low.

LOL, its like the never ending whine fest for you all.  Everything was legit, I know thats tough to comprehend but thats the facts. If you think it wasn't please elaborate.

"that's how a REAL General would do it" ROFL. Oh please wise one, enlighten us with your knowledge of military tactics. I gues we should have waited until enough rebs showed up to outnumber us, buffed and set up, then try and take it right? LOL. Basic military strategy, hit them, and hit them hard, when they are not expecting it.  As I said, some rebs tried to defend but in the end we outnumbered them. Fight smarter not harder. 

Originally posted by BaronJuJu
LOL thanks for proving my point, and in record time I may add! I can read you kids like a book (comic) Call yourself a kid first, young'in...

First, were you upset its Bloodfin?  Yeah, real upset... I almost cried...

So its exploting when the opposing faction puts down bases and we find them and blow them up, while fighting reb players? It is when the Dev's say it is... and taht's what YOUR community says is happening... and what Reb players? Please... You're Base Clubbing, and you know it...  You guys are reaching for anything now. Pot, meet Kettle... Tell me what part of the mechanics were we exploiting? According to your Dev's, Base Clubbing is exploiting... If that's not the case, prove it... Oh oh I know...we should have had less folks right? Ah I see, then when I took the photos then you guys would cry server populations being low.

LOL, its like the never ending whine fest for you all. I'm sorry, I though I introduced you to Mr Kettle...  Everything was legit, I know thats tough to comprehend but thats the facts. Is it now... tell you what, go ask on the O-Forums and see what the "facts" are, then come back here and make claims... If you think it wasn't please elaborate. I just asked an old friend who plays still, and he confirmed that base Clubbing is considered an exploit, but SOE has done nothing to stop it.

"that's how a REAL General would do it" ROFL. Oh please wise one, enlighten us with your knowledge of military tactics. I'd be happy to... you sad excuses for PVP'ers are Clubbing bases to grind/exploit your way to General Rank, rather then earning it. I gues we should have waited until enough rebs showed up to outnumber us, buffed and set up, then try and take it right?Try 1/10th the number of Reb's... you're not fighting anyone, you might as well be Clubbing baby seals... LOL. Basic military strategy, hit them, and hit them hard, when they are not expecting it. And then hang out, and put up camps and sit around emoting and chatting rather then doing ANY real fighting... YOU'RE CAMPING THEM... As I said, some rebs tried to defend but in the end we outnumbered them. Yeah, I think I saw 2 blue dots... what a fight... so why aren't you at any of the PVP areas grinding Faction? Oh yeah, you'ld all rather stand around doing nothing while racking up GCW points from undefended bases... I mean, why risk loosing trying to take an actual REAL PVP base... let's get REB Alt's to drop some bases and Club them!  Fight smarter not harder. Or exploit... 

Now, I can't post on the OF's, so I can't just ask if base Clubbing is still consider exploiting, but at the VERY least it's EXTREAMLY poor game design. You see, this is what current players have to do to because GCW system is so unbalanced... exploit mechanics to grind up to General... and what a way to earn it... boy, missing all that excitement you guys are having standing around in Ent camps is making me sad I'm not there to stand around either...

Tell you what, prove me wrong and start an OF thread with the title "Is base clubbing cheating?", then ask what people think about it... I'm sure you'll get some great feedback from your fellow players...

Originally posted by charliehustl

Now there is nothing wrong with what the picture he posted shows. You actually have a good time socializing and when imps and rebs show up you have some pretty darn good pvp battles. 

Again no matter what anyone post you guys will never accept it. Nothing will ever be good enough there will always be some excuse.

Now, I see no Rebs fighting on the overhead... don't get me wrong, I think it's great that there's some social gaming going on... but this is supposed to be a good GCW system? Is this REALLY the way General should be earned?

Now, what am I not accepting? I said the pop was large in the pic, so what exactly am I denying? Is it as high as Pre-CU, heck no, but it's the largest group I've seen since the NGE hit, and if I were playing that would make me happy.

Now if you ask me if the GCW system is good enough, I'd say HELL NO... sorry, but this is just sad... not the social part, but that this is what the GCW has come to... setting up camps and Clubbing bases... that's Iconic?

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by charliehustl

Now there is nothing wrong with what the picture he posted shows. You actually have a good time socializing and when imps and rebs show up you have some pretty darn good pvp battles. 

Again no matter what anyone post you guys will never accept it. Nothing will ever be good enough there will always be some excuse.

Now, I see no Rebs fighting on the overhead... don't get me wrong, I think it's great that there's some social gaming going on... but this is supposed to be a good GCW system? Is this REALLY the way General should be earned?

Now, what am I not accepting? I said the pop was large in the pic, so what exactly am I denying? Is it as high as Pre-CU, heck no, but it's the largest group I've seen since the NGE hit, and if I were playing that would make me happy.

Now if you ask me if the GCW system is good enough, I'd say HELL NO... sorry, but this is just sad... not the social part, but that this is what the GCW has come to... setting up camps and Clubbing bases... that's Iconic?

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

This is on Dant two nights ago. I am sure the haters will find some fault with it:

Oh, I do....

First, I imagine that is Bria based on the pop, and it is large. I see it's Bloodfin from another post.

Second, the REASON there are so many players is that they're base busting to grind GCW points, which I believe is considered exploiting based on what I've read on the O-forums. It's an incredibly sad statement itself of just how lame the GCW is, and the game mechanics of the NGE... yeah, that's how a REAL General would do it, LOL...

...oh, and way to exploit... at least that's what I've read people complaining about... and if I'm mistaken about what's going on, please elaborate...

LOL thanks for proving my point, and in record time I may add! I can read you kids like a book (comic)

First, were you upset its Bloodfin? 

So its exploting when the opposing faction puts down bases and we find them and blow them up, while fighting reb players? You guys are reaching for anything now.  Tell me what part of the mechanics were we exploiting? Oh oh I know...we should have had less folks right? Ah I see, then when I took the photos then you guys would cry server populations being low.

LOL, its like the never ending whine fest for you all.  Everything was legit, I know thats tough to comprehend but thats the facts. If you think it wasn't please elaborate.

"that's how a REAL General would do it" ROFL. Oh please wise one, enlighten us with your knowledge of military tactics. I gues we should have waited until enough rebs showed up to outnumber us, buffed and set up, then try and take it right? LOL. Basic military strategy, hit them, and hit them hard, when they are not expecting it.  As I said, some rebs tried to defend but in the end we outnumbered them. Fight smarter not harder. 

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by BaronJuJu
LOL thanks for proving my point, and in record time I may add! I can read you kids like a book (comic) Call yourself a kid first, young'in...

First, were you upset its Bloodfin?  Yeah, real upset... I almost cried...

So its exploting when the opposing faction puts down bases and we find them and blow them up, while fighting reb players? It is when the Dev's say it is... and taht's what YOUR community says is happening... and what Reb players? Please... You're Base Clubbing, and you know it...  You guys are reaching for anything now. Pot, meet Kettle... Tell me what part of the mechanics were we exploiting? According to your Dev's, Base Clubbing is exploiting... If that's not the case, prove it... Oh oh I know...we should have had less folks right? Ah I see, then when I took the photos then you guys would cry server populations being low.

LOL, its like the never ending whine fest for you all. I'm sorry, I though I introduced you to Mr Kettle...  Everything was legit, I know thats tough to comprehend but thats the facts. Is it now... tell you what, go ask on the O-Forums and see what the "facts" are, then come back here and make claims... If you think it wasn't please elaborate. I just asked an old friend who plays still, and he confirmed that base Clubbing is considered an exploit, but SOE has done nothing to stop it.

"that's how a REAL General would do it" ROFL. Oh please wise one, enlighten us with your knowledge of military tactics. I'd be happy to... you sad excuses for PVP'ers are Clubbing bases to grind/exploit your way to General Rank, rather then earning it. I gues we should have waited until enough rebs showed up to outnumber us, buffed and set up, then try and take it right?Try 1/10th the number of Reb's... you're not fighting anyone, you might as well be Clubbing baby seals... LOL. Basic military strategy, hit them, and hit them hard, when they are not expecting it. And then hang out, and put up camps and sit around emoting and chatting rather then doing ANY real fighting... YOU'RE CAMPING THEM... As I said, some rebs tried to defend but in the end we outnumbered them. Yeah, I think I saw 2 blue dots... what a fight... so why aren't you at any of the PVP areas grinding Faction? Oh yeah, you'ld all rather stand around doing nothing while racking up GCW points from undefended bases... I mean, why risk loosing trying to take an actual REAL PVP base... let's get REB Alt's to drop some bases and Club them!  Fight smarter not harder. Or exploit... 

Now, I can't post on the OF's, so I can't just ask if base Clubbing is still consider exploiting, but at the VERY least it's EXTREAMLY poor game design. You see, this is what current players have to do to because GCW system is so unbalanced... exploit mechanics to grind up to General... and what a way to earn it... boy, missing all that excitement you guys are having standing around in Ent camps is making me sad I'm not there to stand around either...

Tell you what, prove me wrong and start an OF thread with the title "Is base clubbing cheating?", then ask what people think about it... I'm sure you'll get some great feedback from your fellow players...

All that colored text just to say you don't have a point or a clue of what you were talking about. Typical. So I ask you again, how is blowing up opposing factional bases considered and exploit? Please, I would really love to hear this excuse. 

I see you main arguement was just as I predicted, no rebs. I already explained we fought them off but no amount of discussion will ever open you eyes. Sad, but not surprising. By that "logic" restuss is an exploit as well because reb players aren't there 24/7?

DeadMeat

Developer

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Messages: 120
Offline
Folks,

The clear message here is that we do not like the current implementation and it will be changed.  I expect base clubbing to be addressed between C6 and C7 as I do not want to hold C6 in TC waiting for this fix.

The Wikipedia definition of an online gamin exploit is as follows:


In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers.

I can safely state under this definition that we consider base clubbing an exploit.  Will people be banned who used it?  No. 

And Ebonymoore, you need to try some decaf because Virrago is getting twitchy...You don't want that.

DM

Here is what DM said. See, I took half a second to actually get what the devlopers said vice "thats what I heard on the forums".

So using your "logic" please explain what bug, hack or bot  folks were supposedly using when they had folks go in and set the terminals off (as it was designed) then sit there for 10 minutes for them to blow up (as it was designed)? I figured you would have at least attempted to answer it since you were so sure. I know Col was an very easy grind and meaningless preCU and that actually having to put a bit of effort into making ranks now with the great rewards to boot upsets some former vets now but thats the breaks.

I know we preCU folks are very knowledgeable of exploiting since that was a common theme preCU with fightclubbing, log on/off to avoid death and detection and credit duping to name a few of the more popular ones, but playing the game by the rules set out by the DEV's is not an exploit. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

DeadMeat

Developer

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Messages: 120
Offline
Folks,

The clear message here is that we do not like the current implementation and it will be changed.  I expect base clubbing to be addressed between C6 and C7 as I do not want to hold C6 in TC waiting for this fix.

The Wikipedia definition of an online gamin exploit is as follows:


In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers.

I can safely state under this definition that we consider base clubbing an exploit.  Will people be banned who used it?  No. 

And Ebonymoore, you need to try some decaf because Virrago is getting twitchy...You don't want that.

DM

 

So using your "logic" please explain what bug, hack or bot  folks were supposedly using when they had folks go in and set the terminals off (as it was designed) then sit there for 10 minutes for them to blow up (as it was designed)? I figured you would have at least attempted to answer it since you were so sure. I know Col was an very easy grind and meaningless preCU and that actually having to put a bit of effort into making ranks now with the great rewards to boot upsets some former vets now but thats the breaks.

I know we preCU folks are very knowledgeable of exploiting since that was a common theme preCU with fightclubbing, log on/off to avoid death and detection and credit duping to name a few of the more popular ones, but playing the game by the rules set out by the DEV's is not an exploit. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm going to ignore your juvenile personal attacks, and speak to the point, like a big boy...

DM's quote and your Wiki quote make the point for me, so thank you. Read the red. The Dev's did not intend for Base Clubbing to occur, as has been said for some time now, and as DM refers to in that quote.

And that's the end of that debate, period. Base Clubbing is an Exploit.

Now, you prove your true intent by claiming Col Pre-CU was easy to obtain. It was FAR from easy Pre-CU, and was a real accomplishment. It was not easily obtained, and could not be gained through standing around with people exploiting.

An arguement can be made about "if Pre-CU Col had meaning", but to those of us that did achieve it, it had a deep meaning like all things that you earned with hard work Pre-CU.

Reading your last paragraph, you prove your hypocrisy. You claim Base Clubbing isn't an exploit (even though the Dev's think it is)because it's a designed mechanic, then claim fight clubbing was although it too was a designed mechanic.

Last, grow up and stop the personal attacks, you look like fool...

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

DeadMeat

Developer

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Messages: 120
Offline
Folks,

The clear message here is that we do not like the current implementation and it will be changed.  I expect base clubbing to be addressed between C6 and C7 as I do not want to hold C6 in TC waiting for this fix.

The Wikipedia definition of an online gamin exploit is as follows:


In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers.

I can safely state under this definition that we consider base clubbing an exploit.  Will people be banned who used it?  No. 

And Ebonymoore, you need to try some decaf because Virrago is getting twitchy...You don't want that.

DM

 

So using your "logic" please explain what bug, hack or bot  folks were supposedly using when they had folks go in and set the terminals off (as it was designed) then sit there for 10 minutes for them to blow up (as it was designed)? I figured you would have at least attempted to answer it since you were so sure. I know Col was an very easy grind and meaningless preCU and that actually having to put a bit of effort into making ranks now with the great rewards to boot upsets some former vets now but thats the breaks.

I know we preCU folks are very knowledgeable of exploiting since that was a common theme preCU with fightclubbing, log on/off to avoid death and detection and credit duping to name a few of the more popular ones, but playing the game by the rules set out by the DEV's is not an exploit. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm going to ignore your juvenile personal attacks, and speak to the point, like a big boy...

DM's quote and your Wiki quote make the point for me, so thank you. Read the red. The Dev's did not intend for Base Clubbing to occur, as has been said for some time now, and as DM refers to in that quote.

And that's the end of that debate, period. Base Clubbing is an Exploit.

Now, you prove your true intent by claiming Col Pre-CU was easy to obtain. It was FAR from easy Pre-CU, and was a real accomplishment. It was not easily obtained, and could not be gained through standing around with people exploiting.

An arguement can be made about "if Pre-CU Col had meaning", but to those of us that did achieve it, it had a deep meaning like all things that you earned with hard work Pre-CU.

Reading your last paragraph, you prove your hypocrisy. You claim Base Clubbing isn't an exploit (even though the Dev's think it is)because it's a designed mechanic, then claim fight clubbing was although it too was a designed mechanic.

Last, grow up and stop the personal attacks, you look like fool...