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This week, in a new Community Spotlight, MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood addresses a thread from our forums and tackles the question on genre in MMORPGs and Fantasy's place at the top of the mountain.
Read the whole column here. Cheers, |
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5/21/07 1:40:01 PM#2
I honestly think that there is simply a lack of creativity among MMO makers....because they want to make money first, and therefore, try to minimize their risk. Saying a western MMO will suffer because you only face "a bigger guy in a bigger black hat", is somewhat naive. ALL mmo's do that. Fantasy mmo's give you bigger creatures...but they're still creatures for the most part. Some have claws, some have tails, some have clubs, and some have axes...but they all do "cutting dmg". So, where's the big difference.
There are a lot of areas where a competent MMO team can strike out and make a name for themselves, whether that be a new style of game, or simply a repeat of the current styles with a new setting.
Some ideas: Horror RPG - it's coming, but there should be more, no? It solves the "increasing enemy" dillemma 20's Gangster/Mafia RTS or RPG - Can go "realistic" or "movie fantasy", and come out okay. Wild West /Sandbox - forget the RPG...how about a sandbox, with railroad building, and settlements? Sports RPG - why are all the sports mmo's being made by small time, graphically challenged, non-US companies? Baseball, football, soccer, hockey, horse racing, boxing...plenty of opportunities. Competative building - how about SimCity Online? A world with a set population, and players building cities to absorb the most of that pop.? Lots of random events, like the Olympics, natural disasters, and elections? Or, how about theme park building? Compete with others to attract the most guests on the server.
It's a lack of innovation...because of an emphasis on profit. Every entertainment medium has experienced it, television, film, radio, and literature. MMO's are next in the long line. The genre simply needs more coppola's and scorscese's instead of Spelling's and Bruckhimer's. |
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5/21/07 2:15:09 PM#3
One thing I would really enjoy to see is a real survival MMO. Not zombie horror survival. More Survival in nature. It could be a prehistorical setting where you're cavemen and you have to hunt stuff to stay alive and expand etc. It could be a space colony wich you have to explore and settle on. Lots of options. But mainly it's about getting away from the whole 'fighting the bad guys and saving the world' kind of thing. Because IMHO it doesn't work for MMOs. WOO! We killed the dark emperor! Finally the land is saved, ow crap. He just respawned..... YAY! We saved the land again! All rejoice, evil has been banished. Dang, respawn again...... I mean don't you find it incredibly anti-climatic to turn in 6 heads of that orc general when you do a group quest? Or how every single day that young girl's heirloom gets stolen.... 50 times.... Seriously, MMOs aren't made for the Heroic storyline and quest stuff. That's why PvP is so popular. You're a real hero there. Your actions mean something. You're not just generic_player_538 finishing generic_quest_803. If you save the day then it's because you really did something. The same should be done for PvE. A survival MMO would supply this. The game isn't about beating the bad guy. It's about staying alive and even expanding against near impossible odds. Create a really dangerous environment, not just one to grind you to max level. Who said enemies have to be beatable? Environments in wich you actually have to struggle to stay alive. Now that would be cool. A game in wich it was actually rare to have that T-Rex Bone Club. Not because you spend 200 hours getting it. Not because you bought 10000 gold from Ebay. But because your hunting party was so organised that it could actually take the beast down. A game in wich you think 'crap how am I going to survive this' if you see a spawn of 10 wolves instead of 'yay! lots of XP for me!'. A game in wich you have to use tactics and skill to prevent dying. Now that would be something..... We are the bunny. |
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Lunar_Knight
 Novice Member
Joined: 5/29/03
Bite my lip |
5/21/07 3:42:50 PM#4
That problem arises from the fact that most MMOs are static. Nothing ever changes until the next expansion comes out. Why more developers don't put dynamic content into their MMOs is beyond me. In my honest opinion, the best way to keep players in a game is to give them something that will continually engage their interest. A storyline that is actively involving the players and changes the characteristics (destroyed castles and towns, unearthed tombs and caves, new creatures and NPCs) of the game would do just that. Imagine...if you will...logging into the game where only yesterday you were doing some trading in town to find the same town burned to a crisp! You rummage through the ruins of buildings and find some strange items that launch a world wide quest to find the invaders responsible for the attack. Imagine being recognized for your efforts in the quest later and having a permanent monument built to recognize your heroism. That’s just the tip of the ice berg, this idea could be expanded to include Dev-controlled armies that the Players must organize a counter move against in order to protect themselves or even the interaction with different time periods within the same game to change certain aspects of the present and future. THAT idea would even allow you to blend genres (Sci Fi, Western, Fantasy etc.). Take thy head out of ye box, O developers of little faith! Expand thy thinking, create dynamic content, be ye not afraid of "genre clashing". Thy players WILL reward ye!
..................................... ...but time flows like a river... ...and history repeats... -Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay- |
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5/21/07 9:05:09 PM#5
Originally posted by Stradden Jon, The industry view of the "Western" you put forth demonstrates a complete lack of any creativity what so ever. It is a completely "think inside the box" or "it hurts to use my brain" mentality. My background is that of a Creative Director. Here are some excerpts from a thread in which I shared my thoughts on a Wild West MMO:
"There was a thread in which the poster expressed their frustration with the seemingly endless stream of high fantasy MMO games that the consumer is supplied. I too am tired of high fantasy games, but I’m just as tired of sci-fi based games as well. You can go and look at the game list that MMORPG.COM hosts. That list is primarily fantasy or sci-fi, with a touch of real-life and what passes for historical. My tastes are quite different from the majority of you on this forum because my life experiences are so different from most of you. You see, I’m 20 to 30 years older than most of you that follow these boards. I grew up in a time when the cowboy was king and westerns were the main staple of every young boy’s imagination. I would like to see a WESTERN MMO (done properly). I’ve played every western based computer/video game I’ve every come across and all were very shallow and done poorly. There are ample sources of historical documentation to inspire a truly creative development team to develop a Western MMO that would please most MMO play styles. You have examples of solo play when you look at the unknown drifter that is fast with a gun, or skilled trappers/hunters of the Northwest that were known for their stamina and survival skills. You have ample material to supply RvR or PvP to a western, when you look at conflicts between Indian tribes, Indians and the U.S. Cavalry, cattlemen and farmers, outlaw bands and posses, Texas Rangers or even the Pinkerton men. There are also the classic “High Noon” duels out in front of the saloon and look out for the PK that bushwhacks you from an outcropping of boulders. There is also ample inspiration for crafting when you look the boom towns that were created by presence of copper, silver, gold, or cattle and the railroad. There any number of crafting professions that player could enjoy: prospector, blacksmith, gunsmith, carpenter, tailor, farmer, cattleman, cook, trapper, snake oil salesman etc. There is also inspiration for guild support, when you look at some examples like, the “Hole in the Wall” gang style hideout, Indian villages, the U.S. Cavalry outposts, or a Cattleman Assoc. building. There are also mini-games that could be created for the saloon environment like faro. Faro was by far the most popular and prolific game played in old west saloons, followed by brag, monte and several dice games such as high/low (also called over & under). I could go on and on about the possibilities of quests raids, classes, etc., but I’ll spare you from that. I just wanted to share a whish of mine with the community and maybe see if anyone else thought this would be a refreshing experience. out there. Just do some reading on western legends and history. Not all players would want to be gunfighters, as someone else mentioned. If for example the game was done giving players the ability to build or own property, there could be guild or single player owned ranches, saloons, banks and other shops. You asked what a blacksmith could do besides make horse shoes. Well they made metal straps, hinges and nails to build with, tools to farm and prospect with, branding irons to mark livestock, they repaired wagons. What about gear? What does it have to be so much about gear. Many people complain about grinding for gear. However, there is always the opportunity to upgrade your gear (guns, mount, tack for your mount, ammo, clothing). Then, you can try to raise enough cash to buy your own saloon. At the height of the California gold rush, a plot of land in Frisco that you could put up a canvas tent saloon/gambling house on, cost $46,000 dollars in advance and in gold dust to open. I think you could stay busy trying to raise the money to open a saloon or buy a cattle spread." As far as quest: Spiritual (Magic) Indian themed quests A Western Themed MMO could have just as robust an economy as any MMO and could be as deep as deep as any high fantasy game |
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5/22/07 3:58:16 AM#6
Modern meets fantasy/sci-fi still remains a mostly untapped in MMOs. Look at novels, they use it for a long time already and the mix of either normally makes it much more interesting. Any of Neil Gaiman's works like Sandman and American Gods, Artemis Fowl, and other novels incorporate that modern-fantasy. Transformers is an example in the modern-sci-fi. On consoles, Persona game series makes great use of modern setting mixed with mythology aka. fantasy. Another largely untapped genre, psychological worlds. American Gee's Alice, Sanitarium, Psychonauts and Myst series represents this family. If one person equals to one world in their minds, do you think it will be easy to run of content? That content can change when that person changes his/her thoughts, and can be expanded as much as the story allows? These so-called genres still incorporate both fantasy and sci-fi elements, but it's a totally different presentation altogether. |
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5/22/07 8:50:50 AM#7
A few years ago there was a horror/Western Collectable Card Game, and I always thought that it was an interesting match. A western MMORPG would be great, instead of guilds, you could have 'gangs' or 'posse's'; as mentioned before, you could upgrade your weaponry or horses. Something similar to the game 'GUN' that came out a couple years ago. There could be a pvp region .... seriously, this would be really awesome. lol, if you want really outside the box, there could be a fishing game.... make and trade lures, upgrade equipment, boats. You can even have sponsors from real fishing product/companies. In the game you use an item, and you could actually order it in real life.
How about the 'gardener'... you build mutangenic plants, and do pvp battle against other gardeners. Upgrade your spades, water, fertilizer etc. You could mix and match seeds, to make beautiful flowers, or make monstrosities that you could take in a pvp arena. lol. The strange point to all of this, is that there is alot you can do with the mmorpg formula. Hopefully in the next few years there will be more diversity out there. Personally ... I'm still waiting for a Babylon 5 mmorpg. ... for the love of the Narn, someone make one ;) |
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5/22/07 3:47:47 PM#8
If you look at the Encyclopedia of Fantasy, or study the major genres that writers deal with now you'll find that those are some insanely broad genres, and you could literally keep going to nearly infinity with the variations. Real world & historical genres are often very broad, and - as mentioned above - even the Wild West could fully support an MMO. The difficulty is, with a real world MMO, there are time limits, geographical limits, etc. which makes the speculative fiction universes so popular. Besides, who wants to log on and play themselves? Fantasy
Too many people are trapped in the genres and think that just because something is inside a genre, it's not going to go anywhere and they may as well not play. We're only limited by our imaginations, and even the MMOs set in the real world could be fun ... they just might become a little more fantasy or sci fi as they go on. :) |
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5/26/07 2:45:39 AM#9
The idea of just suggesting some relatively untried genres seems pretty obvious. Hard-boiled "noir" mystery, Mafia... those will probably occur to most people once they get past "Western" and "Post-apocalyptic." A pure genre idea I keep coming back to is pulp adventure, such as Edgar Rice Burroughs's "Barsoom" (Mars) novels. Four-armed green Tharks with swords and bad attitudes; sky pirates armed with radium pistols; gorgeous (or hunky, take your pick) red princesses (or princes) of Helium; and players whose characters come from Earth are able to leap tall buildings in a single bound because of the lower gravity of Mars. I think the copyright on these novels may even have expired... so why has a game based on this not been made yet? But honestly, even this seems too timid to me. What about stepping out of the box a little further? What if instead of making yet another Hobbesian, zero-sum, red-in-tooth-and-claw competitionfest someone made a game where competition was subordinate to cooperation, where players could choose to work together at a high level? An idea in this style I came up with a while back was what I called the "Big Challenge" game. In this kind of game, the developer creates a detailed world, then sets -- wait for it -- a Big Challenge, then unleashes players on the game world. To "win" the game, players would have to work together to achieve the high-level goal, the Big Challenge. One example of this sort of thing I came up with was writing code to simulate a lot of physical phenomena and processes -- matter, energy, chemistry, electromagnetism, gravity, biochemistry, photosynthesis, respiration, etc. -- and then plant resources on the Earth of about A.D. 1750. Then I'd open it up to players and say, "Your challenge is to create a colony on the Moon that is self-sustaining for 100 people for six months. Go." Players would then be able to work together to discover the processes and build the artifacts that allow travel and survival in the harsh void of space and the surface of the Moon. They could form groups (such as corporations) that might compete with each other to reach some technological milestone first, but no one group would be able to do it all -- only through cooperating at a high level could the ultimate goal be achieved, at which point everybody who contributed wins. And when that happens (probably sooner than I expect), I'd be ready with the next Big Challenge: colonize Mars. And then: Colonize the asteroid belt. And then? The stars are waiting. Is there really no place for a game like this? Is the thoughful, helpful, decent side of human nature unworthy of gameplay? I don't believe that... but where are the games proving me wrong? But now let's step back even further. Here's a diagram I drew showing my personal interpretation of the various forms of playful software we've invented so far and how they interact to form specific modes of gameplay:
When I look at this diagram, I immediately think, "What if...?" What if the Adventure circle were expanded to intersect with MMOGs? Could there be a massively multiplayer adventure game? What if the Strategy circle were expanded to CRPGs, so that you actually played a character whose effectiveness at strategic planning determined your character's story arc? What if the Strategy circle were expanded to MMORPGs, so that gameplay wasn't just a bunch of mindless one-on-one slapfights but represented hundreds of thousands of massive empires spanning a galaxy? What if the Software Toy circle were expanded into Online games? (Oh, wait -- that's Spore. Eventually. Maybe. You get the idea. We're out of genres? No new worlds to conquer? Baloney! There is a wealth of novel gameplay modes just waiting to be invented. And that can happen as soon as we're ready to step back and see the big picture, when we pop out of the frame of our assumptions so that we can identify the old conventions that are ripe for being challenged. That doesn't mean throwing out everything. It means using the basic elements of gameplay in new ways. All it takes is for somebody to try it and see what happens. --Flatfingers |
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) OK, what if the Software Toy circle, with its emphasis on simulation, were expanded into MMORPGs? Can you imagine a game where the gameplay revolved around how well your characters responded to dynamic but understandable changes in complex systems? What kinds of complex systems would be fun to simulate if you could allow thousands of characters to fiddle with the switches and dials?