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Off-Topic Discussion » Ron Paul smeared for quoting 9-11 Commission Report

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reavo Novice Member Joined: 8/04/04 Posts: 2166 Loquendum Ut Vulgus, Sentiendum Ut Sapientes	5/19/07 1:48:43 PM#1 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Ron Paul simply quotes the 9-11 Commissions Report and is attacked. Not only is he attacked, but there is now an attempt to ban him from the debates for his quoting the report. This makes no sense to me. youtube.com/watch Are these people seriously so naive to think that our over involvement in foreign affairs is not going to have repercussions at some point? Who knows how far we can push people and deny them their sovereignty before they snap. How long would it take someones involvement in our personal affairs before American's retaliated? I think not long at all. If these people want to live backward ass lives, then let them. Deny them involvement in the affairs of civilized nations and let it be. But instead we keep poking at a hornets nest while we neglect our own affairs. Did anyone see the recent immigration bill that is going up for vote? This is a President and Congress involved in the protection of the American people???? And that's the kind of garbage we get to protect our borders? I think we've been tricked and had our attention diverted enough by these two parties, have we not?! So, a stand up guy like Ron Paul comes along with a new idea and look at how he is treated. Even if you are not a Ron Paul supporter, a person taking a stand and being treated this way should make everyone who believes in the American system outraged.
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Slickinfinit Novice Member Joined: 5/06/05 Posts: 1087 GALACTUS OWNZ ALL!	5/19/07 2:16:37 PM#2 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Well there has been a huge cancer within the American government for a very long time and Democrat or Republican they both spin the same wheel just with a different mask on. They both are almost completely corrupted by the dollar and the ones who are not do not stand a chance in any election that means anything and it seems they serve the interests of the MIC, (military industrial complex) and big corporations which make up the 51 richest entities on the planet ahead of all countries in wealth! Just look at how bad the Immigration bill they are trying to pass stinks of corruption! They want an influx of even more cheap labor plain and simple, so the big money companies can pay less in wages and benefits to the masses of cheap labor that will flood after they pass the amnesty in disguise bill. I almost think these powers that run America want to turn it into a third world country they way they are going and I predict a huge drop in the dollar value in the next 3 years because of all the devaluation of the American way. Countries are switching from the petro dollar to euros and that is going to cause the dollar to drop as well so I forsee a depression happening soon because of what your government is doing and has done.
reavo Novice Member Joined: 8/04/04 Posts: 2166 Loquendum Ut Vulgus, Sentiendum Ut Sapientes	5/19/07 2:24:06 PM#3 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Slickinfinit Well there has been a huge cancer within the American government for a very long time and Democrat or Republican they both spin the same wheel just with a different mask on. They both are almost completely corrupted by the dollar and the ones who are not do not stand a chance in any election that means anything and it seems they serve the interests of the MIC, (military industrial complex) and big corporations which make up the 51 richest entities on the planet ahead of all countries in wealth! Just look at how bad the Immigration bill they are trying to pass stinks of corruption! They want an influx of even more cheap labor plain and simple, so the big money companies can pay less in wages and benefits to the masses of cheap labor that will flood after they pass the amnesty in disguise bill. I almost think these powers that run America want to turn it into a third world country they way they are going and I predict a huge drop in the dollar value in the next 3 years because of all the devaluation of the American way. Countries are switching from the petro dollar to euros and that is going to cause the dollar to drop as well so I forsee a depression happening soon because of what your government is doing and has done. I don't know if you listen to the radio much, but you should hear what the conservative talk show hosts (outside of Rush Limbaugh) are saying about this bill. Most of them are just laying down and taking it with comments along the lines of, "well if we don't take this one it's only going to get worse." That is so like them. They are so afraid to stand up to this President and the Republican party. The way I look at it, they made their bed and now they're having trouble lying in it. They made it where anyone who challenges this President and his policy is labeled "unpatriotic" and now they can't seem to reconcile their own logic to get themselves out of the corner they put themselves into. It's our duty to disagree with policy when policy is wrong. It's our government, we are not subjects of the king and his cronies!
Size-Twelve Advanced Member Joined: 7/10/05 Posts: 446 See you in Washington	5/19/07 2:26:16 PM#4 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Did you see Blitzer go after him? He implies to the public that Ron's position on 9/11 is that it was caused from non-threatening surveillance missions. Gimme a break. You're going to see more of this. It's no secret that most mainstream media is lib, and I think they see Paul as another Ralph Nader. They still blame him for Gore's loss in 2000, and don't want to see Ron split the vote in 08. In a way, I think their intentions are good enough, but they are no better than the administration if they continue down this path.
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 2:49:56 PM#5 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
porgie Novice Member Joined: 11/18/05 Posts: 1521 SCULLY: What do you think? MULDER: I can''t believe how much faith we put in machines.	5/19/07 3:39:39 PM#6 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you watch the video Revo posted? He quoted the 9-11 Commission's report. I know that sometimes reality is a little different for different people, but the 9-11 Commission was ranked by some pretty heavy Conservatives as well. Are we going to say that they are unpatriotic and as bizarre as Ron Paul as well? And, I also think that Ron Paul speaks for a lot of American's when he says the things he says. ----------------------- </OBAMA>
porgie Novice Member Joined: 11/18/05 Posts: 1521 SCULLY: What do you think? MULDER: I can''t believe how much faith we put in machines.	5/19/07 3:41:17 PM#7 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Allow me to illustrate this administrations policy on illegal aliens coming into our country, and then you'll see just how serious this President is about protecting us... ----------------------- </OBAMA>
Slickinfinit Novice Member Joined: 5/06/05 Posts: 1087 GALACTUS OWNZ ALL!	5/19/07 3:47:01 PM#8 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Slickinfinit Well there has been a huge cancer within the American government for a very long time and Democrat or Republican they both spin the same wheel just with a different mask on. They both are almost completely corrupted by the dollar and the ones who are not do not stand a chance in any election that means anything and it seems they serve the interests of the MIC, (military industrial complex) and big corporations which make up the 51 richest entities on the planet ahead of all countries in wealth! Just look at how bad the Immigration bill they are trying to pass stinks of corruption! They want an influx of even more cheap labor plain and simple, so the big money companies can pay less in wages and benefits to the masses of cheap labor that will flood after they pass the amnesty in disguise bill. I almost think these powers that run America want to turn it into a third world country they way they are going and I predict a huge drop in the dollar value in the next 3 years because of all the devaluation of the American way. Countries are switching from the petro dollar to euros and that is going to cause the dollar to drop as well so I forsee a depression happening soon because of what your government is doing and has done. I don't know if you listen to the radio much, but you should hear what the conservative talk show hosts (outside of Rush Limbaugh) are saying about this bill. Most of them are just laying down and taking it with comments along the lines of, "well if we don't take this one it's only going to get worse." That is so like them. They are so afraid to stand up to this President and the Republican party. The way I look at it, they made their bed and now they're having trouble lying in it. They made it where anyone who challenges this President and his policy is labeled "unpatriotic" and now they can't seem to reconcile their own logic to get themselves out of the corner they put themselves into. It's our duty to disagree with policy when policy is wrong. It's our government, we are not subjects of the king and his cronies! Thats a good post man, I agree and I think the ones who really believed Bush and his policies were good in the beginning are really going to feel like Idiots when its all said and done. Some are realizing this but imo its to late and we are just going to have to see what grand finale this administration has planned to show once and for all whose interests they have in mind. Like I said earlier about countries switching from the American petro-dollar to euros and the massive debt the USA has to places like China and Japan is going to collapse the economy of the USA. I think any major disaster like a pandemic, fuel shortage,food shortage (bees are dying!), deadly weather or a nuclear terrorist attack will show just how weak G.W Bush has left America after 911 when he was supposed to make it stronger and better liked worldwide. I am scared to wonder where America will be in 3-5 years because of all this? I am a betting man though and I will bet people remember this current American administration as the worst to ever have held office in the time when good leadership was needed the most!
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 3:50:39 PM#9 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by porgie Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you watch the video Revo posted? He quoted the 9-11 Commission's report. I know that sometimes reality is a little different for different people, but the 9-11 Commission was ranked by some pretty heavy Conservatives as well. Are we going to say that they are unpatriotic and as bizarre as Ron Paul as well? And, I also think that Ron Paul speaks for a lot of American's when he says the things he says. I'm not talking about that video, I stated exactly which video I was talking about. So don't try to put in little snide remarks about my conservative reality vs your reality if you can't even take the time to friggen comprehend what I've clearly written. He may very well speak for a lot of Americans, all I'm saying is that when a long shot candidate like Ron Paul starts saying things that people are going to be averse to (America brought 9/11 on itself, yes, he did indeed say what amounted to that, watch the video that i referenced in AlexaMore's post) they cannot expect to be elected. Ron Paul has ruined any chance that he had. Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 3:51:30 PM#10 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by porgie Allow me to illustrate this administrations policy on illegal aliens coming into our country, and then you'll see just how serious this President is about protecting us... I dunno who that is aimed at, I've never defended this administration's immigration policy. Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
porgie Novice Member Joined: 11/18/05 Posts: 1521 SCULLY: What do you think? MULDER: I can''t believe how much faith we put in machines.	5/19/07 3:57:18 PM#11 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by porgie Allow me to illustrate this administrations policy on illegal aliens coming into our country, and then you'll see just how serious this President is about protecting us... I dunno who that is aimed at, I've never defended this administration's immigration policy. It's a funny picture though, no? How about this one... ----------------------- </OBAMA>
reavo Novice Member Joined: 8/04/04 Posts: 2166 Loquendum Ut Vulgus, Sentiendum Ut Sapientes	5/19/07 4:05:46 PM#12 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you know that the Republican and Democratic Parties got together and finally agreed on something? Yeah. They agreed to change the official U.S. National Anthem to a new tune. Check it out... www.youtube.com/watch
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 4:23:19 PM#13 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you know that the Republican and Democratic Parties got together and finally agreed on something? Yeah. They agreed to change the official U.S. National Anthem to a new tune. Check it out... www.youtube.com/watch Actually you're wrong, this is the new anthem.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
reavo Novice Member Joined: 8/04/04 Posts: 2166 Loquendum Ut Vulgus, Sentiendum Ut Sapientes	5/19/07 4:32:48 PM#14 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you know that the Republican and Democratic Parties got together and finally agreed on something? Yeah. They agreed to change the official U.S. National Anthem to a new tune. Check it out... www.youtube.com/watch Actually you're wrong, this is the new anthem.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Hey, man. Rick Astley is cool! I miss the 80's. That was some good times. I feel sorry for the kids and the trash they have to deal with these days. I listen to the music they have on their IPods sometimes and feel like crying. Such garbage, and they don't even know any better.
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 4:43:03 PM#15 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you know that the Republican and Democratic Parties got together and finally agreed on something? Yeah. They agreed to change the official U.S. National Anthem to a new tune. Check it out... www.youtube.com/watch Actually you're wrong, this is the new anthem.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Hey, man. Rick Astley is cool! I miss the 80's. That was some good times. I feel sorry for the kids and the trash they have to deal with these days. I listen to the music they have on their IPods sometimes and feel like crying. Such garbage, and they don't even know any better. Is that what the guy's name is? hahaha...Go to the WoW forums and you'll understand why I posted that... Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
reavo Novice Member Joined: 8/04/04 Posts: 2166 Loquendum Ut Vulgus, Sentiendum Ut Sapientes	5/19/07 4:51:47 PM#16 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you know that the Republican and Democratic Parties got together and finally agreed on something? Yeah. They agreed to change the official U.S. National Anthem to a new tune. Check it out... www.youtube.com/watch Actually you're wrong, this is the new anthem.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Hey, man. Rick Astley is cool! I miss the 80's. That was some good times. I feel sorry for the kids and the trash they have to deal with these days. I listen to the music they have on their IPods sometimes and feel like crying. Such garbage, and they don't even know any better. Is that what the guy's name is? hahaha...Go to the WoW forums and you'll understand why I posted that... I'm not allowed to go there. My doctor warned me that it could effect my cognitive abilities and I could lose my job or something. Sorry man.
noname12345 Novice Member Joined: 11/13/05 Posts: 2271	5/19/07 7:23:52 PM#17 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by porgie Originally posted by Draenor I hate to drag you back to reality Reavo, but Ron Paul was already a long shot candidate BEFORE he said what he did about 9/11...that being that we were attacked because of our involvement in the middle east. Now whether you agree with that sentiment or not, I would think that a reasonable person would see that a long shot candidate making such statements completely dashes his hopes of getting elected. People aren't going to vote for the guy if they think HE thinks that the United States brought 9/11 upon itself. If you havn't seen the statement, go back and watch the videos that AlexaMore posted a week or so ago, I believe it's the top video titled something to the effect of "Giuliani and Ron Paul argue" A long shot candidate can't make comments like that and hope to get elected, Ron Paul stands no chance of winning this election. By the way, I had no opinion of Ron Paul one way or the other until I saw that debate...It wasn't like I watched the thing looking for reasons to dislike Ron Paul. Did you watch the video Revo posted? He quoted the 9-11 Commission's report. I know that sometimes reality is a little different for different people, but the 9-11 Commission was ranked by some pretty heavy Conservatives as well. Are we going to say that they are unpatriotic and as bizarre as Ron Paul as well? And, I also think that Ron Paul speaks for a lot of American's when he says the things he says. I'm not talking about that video, I stated exactly which video I was talking about. So don't try to put in little snide remarks about my conservative reality vs your reality if you can't even take the time to friggen comprehend what I've clearly written. He may very well speak for a lot of Americans, all I'm saying is that when a long shot candidate like Ron Paul starts saying things that people are going to be averse to (America inadvertently brought 9/11 on itself, yes, he did indeed say what amounted to that, watch the video that i referenced in AlexaMore's post) they cannot expect to be elected. Ron Paul has ruined any chance that he had. Actually he's been getting tons of exposure on TV, radio and on the internet and a lot of it is great. It's better to get exposure than to get none at all, so one needs controversy. The consensus now is that Rudy Giuliani has experienced, first hand, a little thing called blowback. I've been following Ron Paul very very closely. He spoke the truth that day and since then many people have been amazed by him. Ron Paul actually increased his chances thanks to Rudy. Ron Paul said his donations shot up by leaps and bounds over night when that debate happened. People are waking up. ______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
Skoll Novice Member Joined: 3/04/04 Posts: 418 You have no body, no blood, no bones, you are but a thought.	5/19/07 7:40:37 PM#18 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by AlexAmore Actually he's been getting tons of exposure on TV, radio and on the internet and a lot of it is great. It's better to get exposure than to get none at all, so one needs controversy. The consensus now is that Rudy Giuliani has experienced, first hand, a little thing called blowback. I've been following Ron Paul very very closely. He spoke the truth that day and since then many people have been amazed by him. Ron Paul actually increased his chances thanks to Rudy. Ron Paul said his donations shot up by leaps and bounds over night when that debate happened. People are waking up. All you need now is some chloroform and a rag. When all is done you shall have your money.
noname12345 Novice Member Joined: 11/13/05 Posts: 2271	5/19/07 7:46:02 PM#19 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by Skoll All you need now is some chloroform and a rag. When all is done you shall have your money. Touché. ______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
Draenor Apprentice Member Joined: 5/16/03 Posts: 7922 [Insert Tool lyrics]	5/19/07 7:50:50 PM#20 Report this post Explain why you are reporting this post: (750 characters max.) Originally posted by AlexAmore Originally posted by Skoll All you need now is some chloroform and a rag. When all is done you shall have your money. Touché. eew you put the accent mark in and everything...I try not to do the French language that service Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.