Originally posted by Ruthgar
You can't gank level 1s in WoW either.

Originally posted by Ruthgar
 I think Monster play is a unique alternative to just jamming PvP into an MMORPG.

Can I have your stuff, since your not using it.

Originally posted by vingvega
Yeah I don't understand why anyone would want to play a pre-made level 50 monster...boring.  They should of made factions, that's why im bored with the game and using the disk to hold my mountain dew.

For some (myself included) PvP isn't a way to stroke your own ego by beating on lowbie characters, or even necessarily by defeating those of similar or greater power to you. Rather, it's a vital component of creating an immersive world which isn't bound by artificial constraints like letting you create a born'n'bred killer but then telling him/her who they can and can't kill. I can't think of anything LESS immersive than spending hours and hours building up your character, only to have to set them aside and pick up a ready-made supermonster (built to take on lvl 50's) whenever you want the unpredictability and excitement of pitting yourself against a real player rather than a predictable AI.

This then is a weak attempt to pitch to a wider market by appearing to circumvent the PvP debate, when in reality it offers little satisfaction for most playerss who prefer a PvP environment. The success of this game (which is pretty much beyond dispute) rests firmly on it's top-quality presentation, hugely popular I.P., rich questing and RPing components and the work Turbine have put in to ensure that the game was actually *ready* when they released it. I can't imagine that the Monster Play mini-game (since that's essentially what it is) will be regarded as anything other than a temporary diversion for most players, certainly not a major selling point of the game.

Originally posted by josh8211
Because you can't fight other peoples' characters.  You have to fight temporary characters that are controlled by people.  It's not PvP, it's PvM.  I could care less about ganking or griefing but I do care about having a PvP system that makes sense.  Even if there's only certain areas where you can PvP it's fine as long as it's not instanced battleground/temporary characters/FPS thrown into the middle of an MMO crap.  Persistent world PvP, whether it's zoned, allows looting, or whatever, is PvP.  Everything else are just side games.

Sorry but you are wrong. The monsters that people play are not temporary. They are persistent. From the time you create your first monster to Play with it is the same one that you will always play with. It does not go away and you do not have to create a new one everytime you want to play as a monster.

When you create said monster you name it. You quest with it to gain destiny points to upgrade it. It may be lvl 50 but you can customize it. Cause that lvl 50 has the same skills and abilities that a lvl one does. It is up too you to gain the desitny points to gain the skills and abilities making that monster stronger. The same way you make a player character stronger as you lvl it up. The only differance between the two is you don't have to lvl the monster toon up from one. You do everything else just not that.

The PvM system does make sense if you look at it with an open mind. Set aside all of the traditional ideas of what makes PvP and look at PvM with it. You will see that it is one player against another player. Just one player (the monster) doesn't have to lvl from one to cap. But he has to earn his skills and abilities thru hard work. It is a very small differance if you look at it with an open mind.

Double post.

1. There is no PvP in LOTRO.
2. LOTRO is just a WoW clone.

Originally posted by Greek_Matt

I can't think of anything LESS immersive than spending hours and hours building up your character, only to have to set them aside and pick up a ready-made supermonster (built to take on lvl 50's) whenever you want the unpredictability and excitement of pitting yourself against a real player rather than a predictable AI.

Originally posted by Ruthgar
You can't gank level 1s in WoW either.

Sure you can, provided they have stumbled into contested territory or were silly enough to get PvP flagged.

Originally posted by josh8211
Because you can't fight other peoples' characters.  You have to fight temporary characters that are controlled by people.  It's not PvP, it's PvM.  I could care less about ganking or griefing but I do care about having a PvP system that makes sense.  Even if there's only certain areas where you can PvP it's fine as long as it's not instanced battleground/temporary characters/FPS thrown into the middle of an MMO crap.  Persistent world PvP, whether it's zoned, allows looting, or whatever, is PvP.  Everything else are just side games.

Sorry yoú are so completly wrong here..:)

You haven't tried it have you ?

It's not a side mini game...

It's a huge zone where all the PVP will take place and it holds capturable forts and towns on a large map..Only diffrence is that you will not have to worry about leveling your monster(If you want to play the dark side)...But if you wish to PVP with the god side..well level up your toon  to 50 and head to Ettenmors..

The only thing that bothers people is that it seems diffrent..but it's NOT even very diffrent from all the other games part from that the dark side doesnt have to level for 6 months..But you can still ENHANCE your dark toon by doing quests etc..

/Junker

Originally posted by sheighton
I have been active on the LOTRO forums since 2005 and have Alpha and Beta tested this game from August last year until early-mid March (my graphics card gave out on me) and I liked LOTRO well enough that I even preordered the game. That being said, I have gotten sorely tired of people complaining about two things in particular...Those complaints are as follows:

1. There is no PvP in LOTRO.
2. LOTRO is just a WoW clone.

Now, I find both of these comments to be rather irritating. Why? Well, first of all LOTRO does have PvP, as it has Monster Play (PvMP). "But it isn't PvP! You can't grief newbies!" Yeah and guess what, there is no good MMO out there on the market that allows you to gank newbies. WoW and GW don't allow it, why should LOTRO? It just degrades the quality of the game and creates for strife within the community. Now as for LOTRO being a WoW clone, it isn't, well not unless you consider WoW to be an EQ clone. I mean LOTRO just took the basic MMO template, put in in Middle Earth, and added Monster Play instead of traditional PvP and viola! WoW is an MMO and so is LOTRO, but that is where the similarities pretty much end...

Originally posted by StanlyManly

Originally posted by sheighton
I have been active on the LOTRO forums since 2005 and have Alpha and Beta tested this game from August last year until early-mid March (my graphics card gave out on me) and I liked LOTRO well enough that I even preordered the game. That being said, I have gotten sorely tired of people complaining about two things in particular...Those complaints are as follows:

1. There is no PvP in LOTRO.
2. LOTRO is just a WoW clone.

Now, I find both of these comments to be rather irritating. Why? Well, first of all LOTRO does have PvP, as it has Monster Play (PvMP). "But it isn't PvP! You can't grief newbies!" Yeah and guess what, there is no good MMO out there on the market that allows you to gank newbies. WoW and GW don't allow it, why should LOTRO? It just degrades the quality of the game and creates for strife within the community. Now as for LOTRO being a WoW clone, it isn't, well not unless you consider WoW to be an EQ clone. I mean LOTRO just took the basic MMO template, put in in Middle Earth, and added Monster Play instead of traditional PvP and viola! WoW is an MMO and so is LOTRO, but that is where the similarities pretty much end...

1.  There is no PvP in the traditional sense.  PvM is not the same, no matter how much you want people to believe so.  The only people here saying anything about griefing newbies are you and the other proponents of PvM.  To those of us who want real PvP, we want the excitement of never knowing when you might encounter a hostile player during your adventuring.

2.  It most certainly is a WoW clone, and WoW is just an EQ/DAoC/AC2/etc clone.  All these games are just variations of the same theme.  What differentiates them is how well their gameplay mechanics are implemented and how fully their game world is realized.

Whats funny is you basically summed up what a lot of people were complaining about, but you didn't realize you did it =).

No, it's not a Wow clone. Your qualifications for a clone are simply the qualifications for being an MMORPG. Aside from which, it's been hashed over; everyone has an opinion and I could care less most of the time what yours is or if you know mine.

To the subject at hand. MP's require time and play to amass points to improve your character stats. Sounds pretty much like regular player characters, albeit the MP's reside in a more confined area which will help IMPROVE the amount of actual PvMP action which is the primary point for them. You cannot judge LOTRO PvMP until a decent number of PC's have reached a level to venture into the PvMP zone. Until then, MP's basically can group and raid/take over cities, etc. I think they did this in response to RvR issues in the past where there was so much contested area that it was hard to easily jump into the action. I am sure they can add more areas later on if it's too boring or filled up.

Originally posted by WizardBlack

No, it's not a Wow clone. Your qualifications for a clone are simply the qualifications for being an MMORPG. Aside from which, it's been hashed over; everyone has an opinion and I could care less most of the time what yours is or if you know mine.

To the subject at hand. MP's require time and play to amass points to improve your character stats. Sounds pretty much like regular player characters, albeit the MP's reside in a more confined area which will help IMPROVE the amount of actual PvMP action which is the primary point for them. You cannot judge LOTRO PvMP until a decent number of PC's have reached a level to venture into the PvMP zone. Until then, MP's basically can group and raid/take over cities, etc. I think they did this in response to RvR issues in the past where there was so much contested area that it was hard to easily jump into the action. I am sure they can add more areas later on if it's too boring or filled up.