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Originally posted by tillamookActually you caught exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread. The main reason I has been angry is that SOE didnt open up classic servers for us after forcing the NGE on us. It would have been a nice gesture. I have never been angry at Mr Freeman(even though I find parts of this blog a little insensitive against the playerbase). In 50 years when I sit on my porch in my rockin chair I will probly think back on the good old days when the NGE destroyed the SWG and smile and think "pwnd!".  Me posting this blog now was like saying "well look, this is the way it turned out, it could have been done much better, please remember this the next time." SWG is done and gone in my world, now I looking forward towards ST:O and the WH40K mmog just announced. |
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3/09/07 2:17:17 PM#42
Originally posted by Dundee Is this because they weren't remotely famliar with the game? To me that seems like the only logical explantion and refused to listen to what the team was telling them? Was Smedly (or whoever is the "higest levels") really that clueless about the game and the impact of the changes? I mean you would have to know next to nothing about the game to not have seen the train wreck coming. Assuming the "highest levels" were familar with the game, How could anyone think that destroying everything most of the players had acheived was going to produce even a merely apathetic response? From your posts earlier, it was clear that at least the team working on the NGE knew the reaction would be very negative (more than one team member asked to be transfered off the team because they didnt' want to be a part of it). If it produced that response by SOE's employees, they had to know the players response would be more. I think the fact that SOE was designing this think in top secret (and actively misled the players so as to keep it a secret--the Amazon.com ad, the professions revamps designed very publically, the ToOW ad, flat out denying rumours about Jedi being given away as a free profession) is a pretty clear indication you guys knew we would hate it and you had decided you were going to go through with it whether we hated it not. |
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3/09/07 4:04:17 PM#43
Originally posted by Dundee Naturally I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself I am not "pissed" at anyone. I am just really disappointed and sad. A Star Wars MMO is the only MMO I ever wanted to play and now the only choice available to me is a mockery which reminds me of everything I lost in a sneak attack that arrived just after I paid for an expansion that contained content for character classes which were being eliminated from the game. Didn't anyone in that company ever question the ethics of selling a publish full of new content for classes that were being eliminated from the game? That particular issue seems to get glossed over by everyone who discusses the NGE yet it is the number one reason I won't ever trust SOE again. |
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Dvol
Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/11/07
Opinions may change during online posting.E-Feelings may be hurt.**Working as intended** |
3/09/07 5:44:19 PM#44
I just want to know when im going to get a new game thats not a clone of EQ or WoW.If anything i dont see how the industry can view precu as unsuccessfull..The old game is allmost 2 years gone and you have thousands of players craving for another just like it..Then you have thousands wanting to know what those first thousands keep talking about..The gaming industry follows the bad hollywood trend of make a great movie then sequel the hell out of it till it bombs.. Personally i havent purchased many games since SWG died.They all bore me some faster than others but none have the "I cant wait to log in effect" Swg had..The problem is games like WoW may have alot of players now but what about 2 years from now? That kinda gameplay gets old and stale fast..Doesnt mean its a bad game just it has no unique gameplay that holds my intrest..And consider most of us have played most of them but still would rather play SWGclassic. And Dundee since your posting again what direction or type of game is your studio planning? SCI-FI Fantasy another EQ clone? Or will you make a similar version game as the old SWG?Since i think you should now know there would be a huge market for another Sandbox None-level based game.. ***Dundee all you'd have to tell me is my game will Have these elements---> *Skill/profession based-No elves or Orcs- *Player made items better than looted ones *Melee combat as well as ranged *A game that lets our players do what they want how they want *And it will remain true to the original concept--NO MASSIVE CHANGES EVER just content and tweaks *It will also have States ie dizzy knockdown *Cool animations no flashy sparkels or lame Medic crosses in mail letters scattering all over the screen *A good ole Tef system based on factional choices overt covert and offer PvP choice server with TEF system rulesets.. *Professions with strengths and weaknesses *And last but not least it will offer a Higher or better Elite profession..With a risk reward system i could list more but you get the idea..........Id preorder that game and request beta tester status today... |
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3/10/07 10:42:03 AM#45
Originally posted by Dundee I remember GreenMarine. He seemed to be one of the more intelligent and level headed members of the team to me. I seem to recall he was making intelligent posts about revamping smuggler which got lots of people excited, then was put on the JTL team and then left for parts unknown. I am hoping since you both worked on JTL (which was a very good expansion in my book btw) AND the name of the company is Spacetime that the project you guys are working on is a space based sci fi project. The MMO world is dieing for a decent sci fi title and Eve just doesn't cut it for me. Fallen Earth piques my interest, but more because it is skill based instead of class based and its not elves and dragons than for any other reasons. |
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3/10/07 12:56:49 PM#46
Originally posted by Wildcat84 I am just deadpan like that, sometimes.
I think it was a mistake because of the impact it had on vets. It wouldn't have been a good thing to do even if one million shiny new players materialized out of no where, made execs look genius. That is, A, but without the "It killed the game because"-part. It wasn't a mistake to try to bring in new players, blow 'em away with a slick introduction to the game, provide more guidance to them in terms of how to get from where they start (lousy noob) to where they want to be (badass Star Wars character). Good PR would have made the vets partners in that undertaking, so the NGE wouldn't have been devastating to many vets as it was. Rather than NGE, it would have been the OGE, with vets grassroots marketing efforts being supportive rather than enraged. Hrm, no. The impact the NGE had on vets was one of the topmost worst things about it, which wouldn't have been an issue at launch. But I think what you're replying to there was my saying it's possible to design a "worldy" sort of MMO even with classes, or twitch-n-click combat, and even with quests for good loot. 'Not that the NGE was that, I'm just sayin'. |
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Minimum
Novice Member
Joined: 7/07/04
You're just jealous because the voices only speak to me. |
3/10/07 1:22:41 PM#47
Hey Jeff, I just want to thank you for stepping in here and putting a human face on things. I really don't have anything to add that hasn't been said already. And anything I said would come out nasty, anyway. I still hate $OE and just about everything it stands for, but that is for things beyond SWG.
At any rate, you have probably done more good here in the few posts you have made then all of $OE up to this point. Good luck with your new project, I hope it turns out well.
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3/10/07 5:48:27 PM#48
I often heard the classic swg design was too complicated for the new devs that came in around 2004, and thats where it all seemed to go downhill.
What was wrong with the original CU1 that had all the DOT and armor fixes that players wanted but was changed to that particle effect nightmare called CU2? Basically what we got on live servers... Some people don't even know there was a CU1 and CU2.. CU2 was what went live.. Star Wars had a huge lore and story base to draw from and you guys did absolutely squat with it. Im talking about the fact that nothing was ever added for high end PVE- named bosses, and high end raid zones.. Maybe not 3 hrs dungeons like eq2 has but something a group of 6-12 players could go and do.. The games key problems were ignored for just too damn long and when changes came they were not what any one asked for or wanted.. Hence your mass exodus.. I remember a large uproar over JTL.. Again, SOE failed to understand what its current player base wanted.. Maybe if JTL had capitol ships that could be boarded and loot hoarded like an instance ground dungeon ya it might have been something worthwhile.. Other than that it was pointless and useless to 80% of us.. ROTW was the smallest adventure pack I ever seen sold for 30 bucks by SONY. I played Eq2 and if you guys tried to sell a ROTW type adventure pack for 30 bucks, heads would of rolled in eq2. It was worth 10 bucks IMO as far as quantity goes.. TOOW was a much improved expansion worth maybe 15 bucks for what it offered when compared side by side to an expack like Echos of Faydark (eq2 xpack). Again, here we have 2 games made by the same company and one just got the bare minimum with regards to xpacks and content and the other bustled with it.. And then they're left scratching their ignorant heads over what went wrong and when.. Any moron could see what went wrong and when... First of all you provided the bare minimum for content and bug fixes and charged a premium price, and 2 combat revamps both sucking worse than its predecessor. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this stuff. You just had to play the game I guess.. |
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3/11/07 8:30:22 AM#49
Mr. Freeman, I'm sorry but the NGE did KILL THE GAME, when you destroy peoples avatars what do they have to play for any more? My Main was a Jedi MAster Ligtsaber, Master Defender, etc all I worked for was taken away from me why? My Alt was a Armor Smith and Tailor ohh those two don't go together in the NGE. Account Cancelled! My 2nd account had a Jedi Healer that was also a Master Doctor very hard to kill, his alt was a RANGER, Ranger was a very rewarding profession wait ohhhh no they killed may Ranger. Account Cancelled! Did you all really think destroying Avatars that took years to build that we would stay? Sorry we are not that stupid after all ehh? Actually I don't like you or anyone that was part of this NGE mess your recent posts have really helped me to understand how really Dumb you all where. Most Players playing the game that no longer lives where 20+ in age, we had muliti accounts and planed on playing a very long time. Awe why waste my time you must not have played the SWG I knew or else you would have fallen in love with it as I did. Punk! Ajax |
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3/11/07 8:49:33 AM#50
I wrote this reply as a blog update, so that's why it is so... cheeky. But since it was a reply to you, figured I ought to cross-post it, too. Originally posted by Dvol Uhm… Soon! Seriously, we’re going to have a flood of all sorts of different MMOs. Not even all MMORPGs, some may provoke arguments as to whether they are real MMOs. Or even as to whether they are real games. There’s a crazy amount of MMO diversity in Asia, and anything not coming here directly, is going to be influencing the games being made here. Then those other games’ sequels will come here, too. Some of the same ‘ol, but some different stuff. Even if you personally avoid MMO console games, you’ll still benefit from the gameplay examples they set for PC MMOs. Some new, different things will come of that, even without just straight copying the console gameplay. And with straight copying? Well that’s still an improvement over just the one thing we have to copy now. Of course there will also be other games. Little things, briefly entertaining, many even online (just almost in that special way we like, but not quite). Though merely distractions to pass time while we wait for a non-clone MMO, they can be enjoyable online activities. Some may even be more fun than griefing Wikipedia, if not quite as sticky. Annnnnd… Well, do you like pirates? This year it’s all pirates. Somewhere between 4 and 37 pirate MMOs rolling out, since that was the unique idea for an MMO that everyone embraced two or three years ago when all their Viking MMOs were canceled. After pirate-year… The Eve Online devs are not going to make a stock-MUD, tanker-nuker-healer, three-diku World of Darkness game. There’s just no way, no how. Impossible. I refuse to entertain the thought. Shup! That one is less than a half-decade away, still practically riding on the heals of the 80’s Vampire-chic fad, when you consider how long Vampires live. Ok, so otherwise, maybe there will be some WoW-clone failures, and some Second Life-like flops, and possibly a revelation some day that there are so not millions of people really playing… one of those two. And on top of that, this: Wonderland quotes Raph Koster as saying:
So there’s a bright future out there, just over the horizon at the very spot your superstitious pirate-crew believes the ocean runs off the edge of the earth, down into the mouths of monsters. A bright future indeed (in spite of the fact that your crew may be correct in their beliefs, it being a videogame ocean and all). Not today, but someday, Game and World will meet. They’ll fall in love, or at least settle, and have some normal kids. Not tomorrow or the next day, either. Old-timers - as we will all be by then - might even fail to recognize normal when we see it. Odds are stacked against us, we who jumped the gun, started playing MMOs before they were even good. |
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3/11/07 8:53:54 AM#51
Originally posted by Volarian I think that is still true more often than not. |
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3/11/07 9:05:27 AM#52
IT is true, we are reallllly missing a game that was like SWG Pre CUbNeg.
A large scale Scifi game, with a living player echonomy, with pany skill points and professions.. I used to be a pistol ranged BH, and there was nothing sweeter. at the beginning of day, pack all the foods i would need, and if i was out i would go to my GUILD hypermall and buy some, then i would check the status of my pistol, se if it was to degraded, then i would take my Jedi hunting clothes, wtih all the sweet ass and expensive skill modifiers, and take a box of Seeker and akrayd droides. Then i would go to a bh term and pick my mark :-) (and match them with my guildes list, so i wouldent pick a imperial allie jedi), then i would get the arakyd droide down to se what planet he was on. Then i would get on my swoop and go hunting him down with some seeker droides, the clothes and the food and drinks. There is nothing sweeter then hunting down a jedi, and ending him... then i would get my reward and if im lucky a wine tell from the jedi (nothing better then that).... that was my day to day thing, and one of my prim was of earning money.. Then it was the other great thing. The ocational city/guild/faction WAR!! 150+ people Riding into a enermy rebel city on swoops is quite a site, and then the gigantic light show, of ranged weapons and jedi sabers, and it was a total war. fighting through a sea of rebels, trying to reach their HQ, get into the HQ, let the slicers and CO, do their job and take the base down... i mean iv played many mmorpgs since SWG launched the NEG, but i havent gotten close to those 2 feeling yet.... and i would kill to get a game where i could get those feeling agian, i just dont se a clear sign.. Sure we got plenty of mabys, like Stargate worlds or Tabula Rasa, or maby even Fallen earth, but i dont se a clear sign in anyone of them, that i would be able to do 2 things, with the same feeling as i got in SWG.. ps. death to the rebels, long live the empire..  Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.  Long live pc gaming, Viva la Steam, and and down with the Usurpers, down with the consoles |
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3/11/07 4:38:49 PM#53
Hmmm... Anyone know if anyone has approached Anne McCaffery about a Dragonriders of Pern MMO? |
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3/12/07 6:18:25 AM#54
Thanks for posting this. I thought I had a copy but did not. I see no reason at all that Jeff could not have and should not have written on his blog or on the official boards at the time the same sort of clarifications he is posting here now. His responses were very different in tone and attitude, which helped nothing at all. I understand he is here trying to do what he didn't or couldn't do then, but how he did act towards players at the time is part and parcel of why the NGE made everyone so angry, and why everyone still comes here and reads and posts. He is parrying comments well, make no mistake. In the long run it will help him interact better with players, cause this place is hell-on-forum wheels, but... Since he keeps bringing up Raph himself, Raph is the shining example of how to handle all of this eternal anger in a classy way. You just keep watching how Raph does it, Jeff, and maybe someday |
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