Originally posted by psyconius
Yeah.. total invisibility stealth is lame. From a roleplaying standpoint as well.

It would be far more intuitive/useful/balanced to allow rogue classes to blend in with their surroundings dynamically. If you are on a flat plain of grass, you will not be invisible. If you are in a dense forest, as long as X amount of geometric objects are in range, you stay hidden. Otherwise the player would atleast be alerted that someone is stalking them. If a simple check is failed then the prey can not target the predator quite yet, but AOE spells would certainly affect him. The prey sees a shadowy figure skulking around in the vegetation. If the predator risks running across open land, he would be fully visible. However, as long as he catches the prey off guard he can still get his damage bonus for assassin type attacks.


I know that is a pipe dream... I just want to see if anyone else would like this system if it were possible. I have played plenty of stealthers and plenty of fodder for them. It will be interesting..

Yes i agree, blending in with ur surroundings would be great! But although as much as i love it i doubt any game would be coming out with such a good stealthing/hiding system like this one for a while.

Originally posted by Jarhead1775

Thats nice  then maybe i do have a chance.

I also think that they should let the engineer class be able to DIG!! under the castle walls or make ladders to climb up the walls with(or blow holes in the wall haha). I dont know if that would be to crazy but it would sound nice for the class.

Hehe. Then I think we are heading towards a sandbox game. Ever tried Wurm Online? :) If players should be able to leave marks upon the world there needs to be some serious adjustments to make that work in the long run

I get more and more impressed with Warhammer Online the more i learn about it.
Stealth is such a bad idea in an MMO.

The problem I think that happens to the rogue class and subsequently stealth (as in invisibility) is that it becomes the single be all end all ability of the class. While it makes things difficult for everybody else its usually the case that said rogue class MUST rely on their invisibility because they have no chance of winning confrontation otherwise. They become so dependant that everything else is second to the skill and as such it seems overpowever or annoying.

As to cutting down trees with enemies in them or blending in different terrain I dont think we'll see anything like that soon (as it means destructable enviroments and I cannot see developers allowing players to level entire forests just because they want to make it difficult for stealth units). It will be interesting to see what kind of rogue classes are implemented. As was mentioned though no crowd control, no long duration stuns (I hope) and no invisibility can only lead to a more fun gameplay experience.

you know? i was thinking of the Dark elves will have an Assassin class and if it will be able to disguise itself as any of the other classes... because that is basically what dark elf assassins do in the TT.

What do you think? the guy is fully visible, BUT he looks like a DE Tank, not an assassin. you charge him, full of snug and he reveal himself as an assasin?

Originally posted by Volkmar

you know? i was thinking of the Dark elves will have an Assassin class and if it will be able to disguise itself as any of the other classes... because that is basically what dark elf assassins do in the TT.

What do you think? the guy is fully visible, BUT he looks like a DE Tank, not an assassin. you charge him, full of snug and he reveal himself as an assasin?

Well The Chronicles of Spellborn was looking to implement stealth into their game by allowing the Facedancer (the stealth class of the game) to morph and shapeshift into animals that could be found around the world. The player would then have to assume movement similar to those mobs in order to sneak up on players. I think its definately a more intesting appraoch than giving the player an invisibility mode and sound remiscent of what you are describing.

I like the overall concept though and I think that a class somehow disguising itself as something else could be interesting however I dont see it being implemented as it would be a pure PvP skill (uselss on mobs unless the AI was advanced enough to attack differently depending on class which I doubt will be the case). All in all I expect EA Mythic to stick with their past philosophy of creating classes along the lines of what we have seen for the other four races (Tank, Healer/Melee, Damage Dealer, Ranged Damage Dealer/Other) so I dont really see any stealth units as player classes. Who knows though I think we will have to wait a while longer (couple of months) to find out.

The really imbalanced advantage of stealth is that you are able to chose your target. If you are not in stealth/invisible people will see you and beat craps out of you. Being invisible make you be able to avoid that, e.g. being smashed by a tank, and give you a chance to kill the mage/healer before the tank even reaches you. I think it's really great that there's no stealth in WAR because they said, damage will be low and because of that battles will last longer than in other MMORPGs. Stealth classes would give the ability to pick the important buffer or healer chars with a group of rogues, kill him, and shorten the time of a match very much.

 Although I do love my Nightshade in DAOC and Rogue in WOW, I'm glad there won't be stealth in WAR, it really is pretty cheezy.

One of the first things to really grab my attention about WAR was when I heard that they would not have any stealth classes.  

It's really obvious why they did if if you think about game design.  Apart from making PvP balance a nightmare, stealth characters make PvE grouping BORING as heck for everyone else.

'Where's the rogue?'

'Oh he snuck on ahead and is checking out all the cool stuff before everyone else while we get to sit around on our rears.  If we're really lucky he may kill some of the mobs before we even get a chance to see them!   Let me know when he comes back, I'm going AFK.'

I hated grouping with stealth characters in City of Heroes/Villains, I hated it in WoW. 

The lack of stealth means that WAR's PvE grouping will take place as a *group* rather than waiting around while someone gets to play their own game of Metal Gear Solid on your time.

And I also agree that real men don't need stealth in PvP :) 

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

One of the first things to really grab my attention about WAR was when I heard that they would not have any stealth classes.  

It's really obvious why they did if if you think about game design.  Apart from making PvP balance a nightmare, stealth characters make PvE grouping BORING as heck for everyone else.

'Where's the rogue?'

'Oh he snuck on ahead and is checking out all the cool stuff before everyone else while we get to sit around on our rears.  If we're really lucky he may kill some of the mobs before we even get a chance to see them!   Let me know when he comes back, I'm going AFK.'

I hated grouping with stealth characters in City of Heroes/Villains, I hated it in WoW. 

The lack of stealth means that WAR's PvE grouping will take place as a *group* rather than waiting around while someone gets to play their own game of Metal Gear Solid on your time.

And I also agree that real men don't need stealth in PvP :) 

I agree, when i played a rogue in WoW i thought it was fun but i didnt really do much in a group to help out besides dps now and then. But when i switched to a pally, i realized how much of a pain rogues are in pvp/pve.

Stealth is in games to make u feel comforted when pvping.... and this is WAR, ur not supposed to feel comfortable.

Well, kudos to them for sticking to the lore.  How refreshing it is to see a company stay true to the lore rather than comprimising it to please a segment of fans.

Other than signing up for the newsletter quite some time ago, I hadn't really done much following of WAR's development.

The last few weeks, after losing all remaining interest in WoW pvp (which wasn't much to begin with), I've been digging around for more information on WAR's pvp/rvr system.

I've been encouraged by quite a few things, and to date one of the neatest "improvements" over today's pvp implementations to date had to be warrior-types being able to "taunt" in pvp by making themselves more attractive targets rather than simply resorting to taking away player control.   That's a nice turnaround from, say, WoW rogues using the ability to "distract" enemies while stealthed so people running full speed in one direction immediately do a 180 or head off in a random direction.  Yeah, that's a ton of fun, and clearly an ability being used as intended.  "LOL u ran right into my dps blender cuz I distracted u from running away from me!!!"

No stealth, though.  That's the new favorite!   I could almost handle a class who could just simply be invisible and call it stealth, but the ability to vanish, in broad daylight, in combat, while being a person's combat focus.... that was just stupid.  Even when you're finally able to accept the absurdity, it's still just cheap.

It seems the effort is really going into how to make pvp better, or not suck so badly as it has, while adding  cool Warhammer looks.  I think it may be safer to get excited about this game than most.  You know, rather than getting excited about SWG, getting into the beta after years of  hearing snippets about this and that cool feature or system, and realizing it was rat hunting in the desert with double-jointed aliens firing rifles at a full sprint directly behind them with 100% accuracy, or something.

I don't see any  "revolution in online gameplay" or "deeper and more amazingly complex than anything previously imagined" claims.  In fact, it seems more like "Lets all smash heads.  You know, for the greater good, or whatever."  Keeping the objectives clear and the goals reasonable..... that's wicked game design, at least in the world of MMO's.

 

Im not arguing for or against stealth in WAR but you fail to realize about the other games you are using to produce reasons why not to have stealth classes used stealth as a way to give the rogue or rogue types their specail ability to be sneaky and move around silently and so forth.  Its an attempt to accentuate the rogues special ability to sneak.  So stealth made pvp harder.. stop crying as i recall there were a dozen different ways in WoW to stop a rogue... flare. any type of AoE's, pallys had concecrate, mages blink soon as they get hit, hunters trap right away , so sneakers could choose their targets.. big deal, they also usually tend to have pretty much no armor and not too many hit points so once they pop outta stealth they are open targets for everyone.. i belive I read a thread about gettin out of a fight well again rogue or rogue types are historically hit and run types if they are forced to stand toe to toe then they would be called warriors not rouges.  a rogues using sneak to get the drop on some one is no different than a mage nuking you from 40 yards away for 4k hp a shot or any other ranged type gettin the drop from 40 or 50 yards away and snaring you while they do it.. remember its all fantasy and they are all games they can only be so real.. the way the other mmos out there designed their games not having stealth in them for the rogue types would have made them completly useless because all their skills depended on them being stealthy. and i dont know why you would not want a class that could scout ahead so your group dont run into a huge mess not having a clue whats comming up, but this is WAR and they can do whatever they want with their game.  If they dont want to have stealth in their game then kudos to them i will still play.. if they did put stealth in the game then kudos to them i would still play.. im sure my mage or warrior will be able to deal with it in either case.  I applaud them for following the game lore with no stealth classes and i belive if that is their descision then im sure they will find a way to make rogue or rogue types usefull without it.. i just want to caution trying to follow the lore too close could possibly lead to bad things as well.. just look at DDO great concept DnD was an awsome table top but the mmo tried to stick with the lore of the game and make it dungeon crawls and so forth like the table top and it was a desaster for them.. some times you have to go outside the lore box and just give in to the fact this is an mmo and you cant please everyone,,  So no stealth no problem im sure rogue types will find thier place... and when they do my Mage will be waiting..

I would rather have no stealthers than the gimped ones like Daoc all stealthers are at the bottom of the food chain right now and u either find no one to play with or u run into stealth zerg how fun is that?