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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » A definitive Review of Vanguard

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69 posts found
  Aildrik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/05
Posts: 271

 
2/23/07 2:13:26 PM#1
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435

Vanguard - The Anti-Review

Elysium – Thu, 02/22/2007 – 7:38pm
"We will have a lot of work to do post-launch and the first couple of months post-launch will be just as busy as beta 5 with lots of patches, bug fixes, new feathres[sic], etc." – Brad McQuaid on beta concerns for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes performance

Honestly, you've got to respect the man's candor. Many criticisms may be laid at the feet of former Everquest Vision™ junkee and current Sigil Games Vision™ proselytizer Brad McQuaid but indirectness is not one of them. To be fair, I've poached a single sentence from one of a million forum posts by the guy, taken it out of context and placed it in italics to give it a weight beyond the scope of the original statement, so let's not pretend that this is some kind of mission statement on releasing the game. The thing is, having played Vanguard: Saga of Heroes whenever I could muster the fortitude over the past two weeks, Brad's post is a pretty salient commentary on the state of the game's release.

When in early February, a Vanguard review key wandered into my grasp I, as something of a Massively Multiplayer gaming addict, set out immediately with the intent of investing dozens of hours into its three-tiered gameplay structure to construct a fair and well-informed review of the title. I even joined with a colleague in what we termed a "blood oath" to achieve at the very least level 20 so that we had a clear impression of both the solo and grouping content of the game. What happened instead is that I kept finding excuses not to play a game that was mediocre at its best and flatly annoying most of the rest of the time.

My goal was to inform myself to a complete enough degree to write a review. This is not that review. That review will never exist, because I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression of Norrath. No, wait. Norrath was Everquest. What's this place called again? Let me look it up, and I'll get back to you …

… Telon! Right, that's the place I've been avoiding.

Now, I'm going to stop fans of Vanguard right here, because I don't care about your vehement and impassioned emails. I honestly don't. First of all, as I mentioned this isn't a review, and I'm not pawning this off as a complete examination of the entire game, but more importantly I'm under no obligation to like Vanguard, and I'm not going to trot out the tired old conventions of picking out small and often insignificant things that don't suck to balance out against the overwhelming majority of things that do suck.

So, what's wrong with Vanguard? How long you got?

The engine seems tailor made for a Sony Online game – despite Sigil's years of work with Microsoft only to be unceremoniously, and maybe not mysteriously, dumped in 2006 – in that it:

1) Makes everything appear to be made of shiny plastic and,

2) Doesn't work

The landscapes feel lifeless, designed either as great open spaces where oddly shaped creatures wait to be slaughtered and harvested at the whim of the local constabulary, or equally often as tightly confined valleys between vertical cliffs of ridiculous proportions that look exactly like what I'd make with Maya if I wanted to try my hand at cliff making. Also, between these cliffs of insanity, are the same oddly shaped creatures, the slaughtering, and lazy constables. The quests come verbatim from The Big Book of MMOG Quests, and every phase of character development feels awkward. On any given swing of a sword a character might gain familiar skill increases for usual offensive and defensive attributes, but along with those one might receive upgrades in tactic recognition, spell recognition, perception, detection, light fandango tripping and smoothie making. Every conflict fills my chat bar with information that I don't really understand, and ultimately don't care about.

Much of Vanguard seems intentionally obtuse and as counter-intuitive as possible while at the same time wrapping itself in tired trappings that have been done far better. Judging an enemy's relative difficulty is itself a multi-layered exploration in cryptography. For example, a level 5 – 2 dot creature is actually less difficult than a level 4 – 3 dot creature. Do you know what that means? Well neither did I for about nine levels, and let me tell you it makes more than a marginal difference! Would it surprise you to know that, where at level 1 you hit creatures for the traditional handful of hit points, by level 6 you might have a critical hit for several hundred damage? Would it further surprise you to find that those hundreds of points of damage against a newbie mob won't do much serious damage, you know unless it's a level 6 – 1 dot. Obviously I'm talking about a level 4 – 4 dot or level 5 – 3 dot, which are clearly far more difficult that some 6-1!

Death is a fact of life for the early adventurer, and not just the kind of death that comes from hyper-fast respawns and wandering creatures several levels higher than you, but the really annoying death that can only be achieved by not understanding what the holy hell is going on. Fortunately characters are not "eligible" for death penalty for the first few levels. I put eligible in quotes because I was always struck on my many young deaths by not being eligible to be penalized by a game. I wondered if there were people at level 5 running around anxiously anticipating that glorious day when they, like their fathers before them, would be "eligible" for in-game punishment.

But, of course, adventuring, such as it's called, is only one of the spheres of Vanguard's three-sphere gameplay model. There is also Crafting and Diplomacy in which, theoretically, one could invest themselves entirely without paying much attention to improving their Bleeding From Puncture Wounds skill. Of the two spheres, Diplomacy most intrigued me with its collectible card style play.

In Diplomacy parleys you and your mob opponent both start with a pool of points. The first person to get rid of all their points wins the conversation. There is a marker that is moved by playing cards, and at the end of each turn whichever side of the board the marker is on gets rid of one of their points. If you, as the player, remove a point from your own pool then the conversation progresses.

Here are the problems:

1) Despite having names like Forceful Demand, Complimentary Comment or Obfuscating And Slightly Suggestive Imperative, the cards themselves do nothing to altar the static flow of conversations. Even as you play Angry Non-Sequiter, your side of the conversation may end up being conciliatory and diplomatic.

2) Card Gameplay gets redundant. It's one thing to hit the millionth local bandit with a sword, but grinding a card game is a whole new level of hardcore that I'm just not prepared to explore.

3) Vanguard doesn't do a great job of drawing you into the stories. Names of places and people seem so equally unfamiliar as to be interchangeable, and proper nouns suffer from more apostrophes than an all-night marathon viewing of Conjunction Junction. I can only care for so long that the Jaa'bba'lly of F'za'nnnjj province want Kwagzatz of the Hoohanie dead, which is why they are hiring Zv'ii'tz of the K's'tt''ll clan to concoct a slow acting poison to be applied to Kwagzatz's F'oo'd', and it's your job to convince nine different people to give you the nine different components of the poison.

4) There's no real sense of advancement. Occasionally you get a new card, or some new piece of diplomatic clothing that grants you an extra green dot at the beginning of each parlay, but who cares?

Diplomacy is a clever idea that's not nearly engaging enough at lower levels to encourage the player to move forward. The Diplomacy game lacks the levels of nuance and strategy that make CCG games so addicting, and the actions of parley seems only barely related to what's transpiring in the game. It would be like giving your character all kinds of interesting combat skills, but every time you activate those skills you just swing your sword the same way.

But, so what? Right? Tired and redundant gameplay, barely interesting story, artificial environments populated with lame quests and an over population of sword fodder; I could be talking about any MMO on the market. The whole damn genre has run off the rails and become a parody of itself. Click the button and a gamer-treat rolls occasionally down the little pipe activating neurotransmitters in the brain that beg endlessly for more tiny little gamer-treats. So why pick on the little guy?

Fine, you want to know what really pisses me off about Vanguard; what voices me with the attitude that Sigil stole my lunch money? Vanguard sets a bad precedence for development and product release. In the months to launch Brad McQuaid made it very clear that regardless of whether Vanguard was actually ready for launch Sony, which had saved the game from cancellation following Microsoft's parting of ways, had set a firm timetable for retail, and come hell or high water the game only had enough money and time to reach that date. So, now that the game has released in its incomplete state, in a state that McQuaid himself describes as requiring patches, bug fixes and new feature implementation on par with a beta product, Sigil essentially comes to the consumer as the third investor in the process of the development cycle, and that is not just a terrible way of doing business, but an irresponsible step in the wrong direction for complicit consumers.

Let me put it bluntly, if a game is not ready for retail when the money runs out find another investor or shut the doors. We are customers, and the retail end of the industry is bad enough about not supporting incomplete or inoperable products without developers and publishers assuming we are investors in the development process. Your job as the industry is to create product, and then, and only then, we buy it.

So, what to say in capping off my thoughts on Vanguard. First, to you Vanguard faithful who, even now, are anxious to point out all the little things that make Vanguard great on which I completely missed the boat possibly because I'm just some World of Warcraft lamer who can't handle a man's MMO, go suck a sock. I don't care about the stuff I missed because the larger picture, the game itself that's supposed to facilitate my giving a crap about the exploration was barely functional, obtuse and uninspiring. To the guys who made Vanguard and for whatever reason maybe put themselves through reading this, I'm sorry to kick your baby down the stairs, but too many game writers these days are so busy tap dancing around offending someone in the industry that they've lost sight of telling consumers not to buy mediocre games. And, finally, to the reader who is wondering if Vanguard is worth playing, had I to do it all over again I sure wouldn't, and my copy was free.

- Elysium

  Balisidar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 166

2/23/07 2:27:57 PM#2
Originally posted by Aildrik
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435

Vanguard - The Anti-Review

Elysium – Thu, 02/22/2007 – 7:38pm
"We will have a lot of work to do post-launch and the first couple of months post-launch will be just as busy as beta 5 with lots of patches, bug fixes, new feathres[sic], etc." – Brad McQuaid on beta concerns for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes performance

Honestly, you've got to respect the man's candor. Many criticisms may be laid at the feet of former Everquest Vision™ junkee and current Sigil Games Vision™ proselytizer Brad McQuaid but indirectness is not one of them. To be fair, I've poached a single sentence from one of a million forum posts by the guy, taken it out of context and placed it in italics to give it a weight beyond the scope of the original statement, so let's not pretend that this is some kind of mission statement on releasing the game. The thing is, having played Vanguard: Saga of Heroes whenever I could muster the fortitude over the past two weeks, Brad's post is a pretty salient commentary on the state of the game's release.

When in early February, a Vanguard review key wandered into my grasp I, as something of a Massively Multiplayer gaming addict, set out immediately with the intent of investing dozens of hours into its three-tiered gameplay structure to construct a fair and well-informed review of the title. I even joined with a colleague in what we termed a "blood oath" to achieve at the very least level 20 so that we had a clear impression of both the solo and grouping content of the game. What happened instead is that I kept finding excuses not to play a game that was mediocre at its best and flatly annoying most of the rest of the time.

My goal was to inform myself to a complete enough degree to write a review. This is not that review. That review will never exist, because I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression of Norrath. No, wait. Norrath was Everquest. What's this place called again? Let me look it up, and I'll get back to you …

… Telon! Right, that's the place I've been avoiding.

Now, I'm going to stop fans of Vanguard right here, because I don't care about your vehement and impassioned emails. I honestly don't. First of all, as I mentioned this isn't a review, and I'm not pawning this off as a complete examination of the entire game, but more importantly I'm under no obligation to like Vanguard, and I'm not going to trot out the tired old conventions of picking out small and often insignificant things that don't suck to balance out against the overwhelming majority of things that do suck.

So, what's wrong with Vanguard? How long you got?

The engine seems tailor made for a Sony Online game – despite Sigil's years of work with Microsoft only to be unceremoniously, and maybe not mysteriously, dumped in 2006 – in that it:

1) Makes everything appear to be made of shiny plastic and,

2) Doesn't work

The landscapes feel lifeless, designed either as great open spaces where oddly shaped creatures wait to be slaughtered and harvested at the whim of the local constabulary, or equally often as tightly confined valleys between vertical cliffs of ridiculous proportions that look exactly like what I'd make with Maya if I wanted to try my hand at cliff making. Also, between these cliffs of insanity, are the same oddly shaped creatures, the slaughtering, and lazy constables. The quests come verbatim from The Big Book of MMOG Quests, and every phase of character development feels awkward. On any given swing of a sword a character might gain familiar skill increases for usual offensive and defensive attributes, but along with those one might receive upgrades in tactic recognition, spell recognition, perception, detection, light fandango tripping and smoothie making. Every conflict fills my chat bar with information that I don't really understand, and ultimately don't care about.

Much of Vanguard seems intentionally obtuse and as counter-intuitive as possible while at the same time wrapping itself in tired trappings that have been done far better. Judging an enemy's relative difficulty is itself a multi-layered exploration in cryptography. For example, a level 5 – 2 dot creature is actually less difficult than a level 4 – 3 dot creature. Do you know what that means? Well neither did I for about nine levels, and let me tell you it makes more than a marginal difference! Would it surprise you to know that, where at level 1 you hit creatures for the traditional handful of hit points, by level 6 you might have a critical hit for several hundred damage? Would it further surprise you to find that those hundreds of points of damage against a newbie mob won't do much serious damage, you know unless it's a level 6 – 1 dot. Obviously I'm talking about a level 4 – 4 dot or level 5 – 3 dot, which are clearly far more difficult that some 6-1!

Death is a fact of life for the early adventurer, and not just the kind of death that comes from hyper-fast respawns and wandering creatures several levels higher than you, but the really annoying death that can only be achieved by not understanding what the holy hell is going on. Fortunately characters are not "eligible" for death penalty for the first few levels. I put eligible in quotes because I was always struck on my many young deaths by not being eligible to be penalized by a game. I wondered if there were people at level 5 running around anxiously anticipating that glorious day when they, like their fathers before them, would be "eligible" for in-game punishment.

But, of course, adventuring, such as it's called, is only one of the spheres of Vanguard's three-sphere gameplay model. There is also Crafting and Diplomacy in which, theoretically, one could invest themselves entirely without paying much attention to improving their Bleeding From Puncture Wounds skill. Of the two spheres, Diplomacy most intrigued me with its collectible card style play.

In Diplomacy parleys you and your mob opponent both start with a pool of points. The first person to get rid of all their points wins the conversation. There is a marker that is moved by playing cards, and at the end of each turn whichever side of the board the marker is on gets rid of one of their points. If you, as the player, remove a point from your own pool then the conversation progresses.

Here are the problems:

1) Despite having names like Forceful Demand, Complimentary Comment or Obfuscating And Slightly Suggestive Imperative, the cards themselves do nothing to altar the static flow of conversations. Even as you play Angry Non-Sequiter, your side of the conversation may end up being conciliatory and diplomatic.

2) Card Gameplay gets redundant. It's one thing to hit the millionth local bandit with a sword, but grinding a card game is a whole new level of hardcore that I'm just not prepared to explore.

3) Vanguard doesn't do a great job of drawing you into the stories. Names of places and people seem so equally unfamiliar as to be interchangeable, and proper nouns suffer from more apostrophes than an all-night marathon viewing of Conjunction Junction. I can only care for so long that the Jaa'bba'lly of F'za'nnnjj province want Kwagzatz of the Hoohanie dead, which is why they are hiring Zv'ii'tz of the K's'tt''ll clan to concoct a slow acting poison to be applied to Kwagzatz's F'oo'd', and it's your job to convince nine different people to give you the nine different components of the poison.

4) There's no real sense of advancement. Occasionally you get a new card, or some new piece of diplomatic clothing that grants you an extra green dot at the beginning of each parlay, but who cares?

Diplomacy is a clever idea that's not nearly engaging enough at lower levels to encourage the player to move forward. The Diplomacy game lacks the levels of nuance and strategy that make CCG games so addicting, and the actions of parley seems only barely related to what's transpiring in the game. It would be like giving your character all kinds of interesting combat skills, but every time you activate those skills you just swing your sword the same way.

But, so what? Right? Tired and redundant gameplay, barely interesting story, artificial environments populated with lame quests and an over population of sword fodder; I could be talking about any MMO on the market. The whole damn genre has run off the rails and become a parody of itself. Click the button and a gamer-treat rolls occasionally down the little pipe activating neurotransmitters in the brain that beg endlessly for more tiny little gamer-treats. So why pick on the little guy?

Fine, you want to know what really pisses me off about Vanguard; what voices me with the attitude that Sigil stole my lunch money? Vanguard sets a bad precedence for development and product release. In the months to launch Brad McQuaid made it very clear that regardless of whether Vanguard was actually ready for launch Sony, which had saved the game from cancellation following Microsoft's parting of ways, had set a firm timetable for retail, and come hell or high water the game only had enough money and time to reach that date. So, now that the game has released in its incomplete state, in a state that McQuaid himself describes as requiring patches, bug fixes and new feature implementation on par with a beta product, Sigil essentially comes to the consumer as the third investor in the process of the development cycle, and that is not just a terrible way of doing business, but an irresponsible step in the wrong direction for complicit consumers.

Let me put it bluntly, if a game is not ready for retail when the money runs out find another investor or shut the doors. We are customers, and the retail end of the industry is bad enough about not supporting incomplete or inoperable products without developers and publishers assuming we are investors in the development process. Your job as the industry is to create product, and then, and only then, we buy it.

So, what to say in capping off my thoughts on Vanguard. First, to you Vanguard faithful who, even now, are anxious to point out all the little things that make Vanguard great on which I completely missed the boat possibly because I'm just some World of Warcraft lamer who can't handle a man's MMO, go suck a sock. I don't care about the stuff I missed because the larger picture, the game itself that's supposed to facilitate my giving a crap about the exploration was barely functional, obtuse and uninspiring. To the guys who made Vanguard and for whatever reason maybe put themselves through reading this, I'm sorry to kick your baby down the stairs, but too many game writers these days are so busy tap dancing around offending someone in the industry that they've lost sight of telling consumers not to buy mediocre games. And, finally, to the reader who is wondering if Vanguard is worth playing, had I to do it all over again I sure wouldn't, and my copy was free.

- Elysium


Bravo.  The third to the last paragraph through the last paragraph really sums things up nicely.  Stop paying good money for incomplete crap.  We've trained the developers to do it.  They see us as Rubes to be rolled.  Stop panting like Pavlov's dogs people and force the developers to do more and better with their money.  Not fritter away 5 years of developement so Brad or any other developer "God" can say...."Ehh...the fools will buy it anyway".

 

Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.

  Dis_Ordur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 1514

Nothing good to play.

2/23/07 2:34:46 PM#3

Scathing, brutal and honest.

The last three paragraphs show how truly complacent and apathetic our gaming populace is...  It isn't our fault though, companies shouldn't take advantage of our wantonness for new games...

Best review yet of VGSoH...  I am still playing it, but apparently my tolerance for bugs and incomplete products are much higher than him.  What this means, I don't know...

 

  Shoal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/04
Posts: 1163

2/23/07 2:44:28 PM#4

Yup.

All true.

Damn Skippy !

  2hawks

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/07
Posts: 106

2/23/07 2:59:12 PM#5
Elysium nails it... nice...
  acmtalk

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 403

2/23/07 3:04:15 PM#6
Originally posted by Aildrik

Let me put it bluntly, if a game is not ready for retail when the money runs out find another investor or shut the doors. We are customers, and the retail end of the industry is bad enough about not supporting incomplete or inoperable products without developers and publishers assuming we are investors in the development process. Your job as the industry is to create product, and then, and only then, we buy it.

So, what to say in capping off my thoughts on Vanguard. First, to you Vanguard faithful who, even now, are anxious to point out all the little things that make Vanguard great on which I completely missed the boat possibly because I'm just some World of Warcraft lamer who can't handle a man's MMO, go suck a sock. I don't care about the stuff I missed because the larger picture, the game itself that's supposed to facilitate my giving a crap about the exploration was barely functional, obtuse and uninspiring. To the guys who made Vanguard and for whatever reason maybe put themselves through reading this, I'm sorry to kick your baby down the stairs, but too many game writers these days are so busy tap dancing around offending someone in the industry that they've lost sight of telling consumers not to buy mediocre games. And, finally, to the reader who is wondering if Vanguard is worth playing, had I to do it all over again I sure wouldn't, and my copy was free.

- Elysium

WOW.... Just  QFE!

  TedDanson

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 523

2/23/07 3:13:41 PM#7

I enjoyed this review for one reason, and one reason only...

The man starts it off by saying very plainly and very honestly that he didn't even play enough of the game to give it an actual review. The rest of it was very well written, and often times pretty funny.

A good read!

  anarchyart

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/04
Posts: 5420

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink: that's the best they'll feel all day."
-Frank Sinatra

2/23/07 3:26:30 PM#8
Originally posted by Aildrik

 I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression......

- Elysium

Uhh, yeah. If this is a gamer you listen to, I'm so very glad you aren't playing Vanguard, both of you Aildrik.

If the original writer gets to see this, spellcheck is your bestest friend.


anarchyart Xfire Miniprofile
  Lidane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 2251

2/23/07 3:33:46 PM#9
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435

Vanguard - The Anti-Review

Elysium – Thu, 02/22/2007 – 7:38pm

Fine, you want to know what really pisses me off about Vanguard; what voices me with the attitude that Sigil stole my lunch money? Vanguard sets a bad precedence for development and product release. In the months to launch Brad McQuaid made it very clear that regardless of whether Vanguard was actually ready for launch Sony, which had saved the game from cancellation following Microsoft's parting of ways, had set a firm timetable for retail, and come hell or high water the game only had enough money and time to reach that date. So, now that the game has released in its incomplete state, in a state that McQuaid himself describes as requiring patches, bug fixes and new feature implementation on par with a beta product, Sigil essentially comes to the consumer as the third investor in the process of the development cycle, and that is not just a terrible way of doing business, but an irresponsible step in the wrong direction for complicit consumers.

Let me put it bluntly, if a game is not ready for retail when the money runs out find another investor or shut the doors. We are customers, and the retail end of the industry is bad enough about not supporting incomplete or inoperable products without developers and publishers assuming we are investors in the development process. Your job as the industry is to create product, and then, and only then, we buy it.

So, what to say in capping off my thoughts on Vanguard. First, to you Vanguard faithful who, even now, are anxious to point out all the little things that make Vanguard great on which I completely missed the boat possibly because I'm just some World of Warcraft lamer who can't handle a man's MMO, go suck a sock. I don't care about the stuff I missed because the larger picture, the game itself that's supposed to facilitate my giving a crap about the exploration was barely functional, obtuse and uninspiring. To the guys who made Vanguard and for whatever reason maybe put themselves through reading this, I'm sorry to kick your baby down the stairs, but too many game writers these days are so busy tap dancing around offending someone in the industry that they've lost sight of telling consumers not to buy mediocre games. And, finally, to the reader who is wondering if Vanguard is worth playing, had I to do it all over again I sure wouldn't, and my copy was free.

- Elysium


QFT

Every single word here is both brutally honest, and completely true. Thank goodness someone is out there saying it.
  Aildrik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/05
Posts: 271

 
2/23/07 3:34:45 PM#10
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Aildrik
 

 I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression......

- Elysium

Uhh, yeah. If this is a gamer you listen to, I'm so very glad you aren't playing Vanguard, both of you Aildrik.

If the original writer gets to see this, spellcheck is your bestest friend.


Isn't there some coolaid  you should be drinking Anarchy?
  User Deleted
2/23/07 3:40:35 PM#11

That site loves console games, and single player games, of Corse they do not like MMO's, and Vanguard.

  maxpfaff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/03
Posts: 42

2/23/07 3:53:35 PM#12
very nice
  grinreaper

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/05
Posts: 512

2/23/07 4:04:15 PM#13

here, let me try:

I didnt actually read most of this review, cuz lets face it, I could see where it was going from the opening quote...but I still know this review sucks...if the reviewer didnt have enough time or stomach lining to tough out actually playing the game, he should have outsourced his review or closed his doors, and shame on the MMORPG.com readers for accepting this POS 'review' from a typical hater.

 

see, I should be getting paid to write crap too...grin

  Grunch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 379

2/23/07 5:39:32 PM#14

I think people are just getting pissed off at developers making mmorpg's and selling them before they are finished. Some players are so addicted to the genre they don't care however many wiser shoppers do care and thanks to reviews like this it saves those people money.

 

Some fanbios say it will be good within 2 years so I will check back around that time.

  User Deleted
2/23/07 5:40:04 PM#15
I still can't see why all the fuss abou this article.
Vanguard now as it stands has a limited appeal since the inherent problems in its design make it hard to play unless certain parameters
are met.
Sure you can say that a lot of people are haters or forum trolls since they are more vocal than others, but that hardly changes the facts.
A game that has good ideas doesn't mean that it can make them reality that easily.
Also keep in mind that yes if someone has gave 50$ he sure will feel cheated if the game doesn't live up to the hype. So it's not a surprise that many of the people who  are more vocal just feel cheated so they raise the issues.
And yes bringing on retail a game that still has problems which affect fuctionality majorly, is bad move no matter what you or me think of it's quality.
The article is just a more intense than others but still has a good point. And i doubt when it comes to games, it matters if you play single, console or whatnot.
  takaris7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 146

2/23/07 6:04:42 PM#16
Originally posted by Grunch

I think people are just getting pissed off at developers making mmorpg's and selling them before they are finished. Some players are so addicted to the genre they don't care however many wiser shoppers do care and thanks to reviews like this it saves those people money.

 

Some fanbios say it will be good within 2 years so I will check back around that time.


So the guy is too lazy to do his actual job and give his readers a real factual review ... except what he gives us is the excuse he uses "not to write his review." Make sense? I knew it would.

At least I can depend on X-play to review and play games they dont even like.

Geeee.

  smg77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/06
Posts: 685

Just wait until SOE ruins *your* game...

2/23/07 6:09:35 PM#17
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Aildrik
 

 I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression......

- Elysium

Uhh, yeah. If this is a gamer you listen to, I'm so very glad you aren't playing Vanguard, both of you Aildrik.

If the original writer gets to see this, spellcheck is your bestest friend.



So tell us, then, what is wrong with his statements about the game? Everything that he wrote about the game is what I have heard on other forums by other people playing the game.

There is no lore, the game is unfinished, diplomacy serves no purpose except as a timesink, the world itself is empty and the graphics are strange looking. Those are the things I keep hearing about the game.
  gatheris

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/06
Posts: 800

2/23/07 6:19:17 PM#18

wow

simply wow

a completely honest impression of the writers attempt at playing this game

he states it is not a review - he probably started out with the intention of writing one but couldn't stomach the effort necessary to complete it

he did write a review of sorts though - one of the state of MMOs - pretty sad, isn't it

  takaris7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 146

2/23/07 6:21:46 PM#19
Originally posted by smg77
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Aildrik
 

 I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression......

- Elysium

Uhh, yeah. If this is a gamer you listen to, I'm so very glad you aren't playing Vanguard, both of you Aildrik.

If the original writer gets to see this, spellcheck is your bestest friend.



So tell us, then, what is wrong with his statements about the game? Everything that he wrote about the game is what I have heard on other forums by other people playing the game.

There is no lore, the game is unfinished, diplomacy serves no purpose except as a timesink, the world itself is empty and the graphics are strange looking. Those are the things I keep hearing about the game.

 

What i suggest and have been suggesting to other people on this forum ... is to go on Stratics, Warcry or Silky Venom and get other opinions about the game ... people are so twisted to the left here on this board its hard to sift the truth out of this mess.

There is lore ... You can find it through diplomacy and questing ... dont know what they mean ... give examples. Diplomacy is fun for some just like crafting is fun for some ... purpose? What kind of purpose are you looking for? It can give crafting and experience bonuses for groups and whatnot ... give you more lore ... soon it will open up writs. I have gotten some quest  items from diplomacy.

Graphics are subjective ... I think WOw graphics are horrible ..scratch out my eyes and fill it with acid...that is how i see them ... LOTR graphics are brite and kinda remind me of Wow graphics. Its all in the eye of the beholder. 

Empty to some ... busy to others .. I find some area full of things ... while honestly .... on my travels i found one city to be "empty" in a way....but it was just HUGE ... i had never seen any NPC city in a game any  bigger ... it was HUGE .. so perhaps that is why it was empty....but there are mobs about ... I know I have been killed by them ... Vangaurd database has listed over 10 thousand mobs of different types ... Ill be honest and say i dont know how many are repeated ... but ive seen a few different types.

All subjective.

  Gules_Aspen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 282

2/23/07 6:25:01 PM#20
Originally posted by smg77
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Aildrik
 

 I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression......

- Elysium

Uhh, yeah. If this is a gamer you listen to, I'm so very glad you aren't playing Vanguard, both of you Aildrik.

If the original writer gets to see this, spellcheck is your bestest friend.



So tell us, then, what is wrong with his statements about the game? Everything that he wrote about the game is what I have heard on other forums by other people playing the game.

There is no lore, the game is unfinished, diplomacy serves no purpose except as a timesink, the world itself is empty and the graphics are strange looking. Those are the things I keep hearing about the game.
1. There is a TON of lore. You just have to learn it.
2. Diplomacy is the vehicle to learn the lore everyone says isn't there.
3. If the world is empty, please tell me why I can't go 30 seconds without being aggro'd by something that wants to kill me.
4. The graphics are by far the best ever seen in a game of this type. In my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

There's a trick, see, to forming an opinion. It's to actually PLAY THE GAME. I hated Vanguard a week or so after release. But I stuck with it, and by doing so have discovered the most compelling MMO since EQ1. it's just not served up in a cardboard tray like a TV dinner, which seems to be what is expected now.
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