Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Sorry I cannot agree - having played both Vanguard feels like a true MMO, LoTR does not.

VG has depth, a huge playing area thats well populated... oh christ I won't go on as everyone here has read this again and again and again...

No offense, but well populated? I've tried 3 servers and they all felt like ghost towns, even at Medium population. I always got a response when Shouting, but I saw very few other players. If I stood still, and did a 360, I might see one, possibly two, other players in a given settlement within my field of vision. And in the wilderness? I rarely saw other players. The world is huge, I understand, but a week or two into release and it seems empty. I gotta think that's going to make grouping difficult as you wait forever for people to show up (as I understand it, there's no summoming stones or other expeditious methods of getting to a group?).

Excessive numbers of people is exactly one problem I have had with games like WoW.  Unless you're in an instance, there are people almost everywhere!  It feels like you're playing in a themepark.

I prefer seeing the occasional person unless I am specifically looking to join a group.  I don't mind waiting a bit if neccessary.

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

 

/Stands /clap

you hit the van boys right on the head there well done /cheer

Why is the acceptable excuse for anything lacking "its in beta"??

We had it with VSH, now LoTR - why give the devs the breathing room by using that same tired three line get out?

It just goes to show how boring Vanguard really is when there is a thread devoted to another game.

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Originally posted by Maxzius
It just goes to show how boring Vanguard really is when there is a thread devoted to another game.

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what does it say about other games then, that so many people who hate this game spend so much time on its forums?

Originally posted by fulmanfu

 

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Originally posted by Maxzius
It just goes to show how boring Vanguard really is when there is a thread devoted to another game.

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what does it say about other games then, that so many people who hate this game spend so much time on its forums?

 

I think the situation, more than anything, has struck a cord on both sides.

On one hand, I think alot of people that were looking forward to the release but have subsquently been treated poorly by the game and the community need to get their oppinions of their chest, this is a good thing and it's deserve in my oppinion.

On the other, there's rational people who believe the game needs time and a little caring to be good. They'll not hesitate to point out those flaws but it's not out of spite or hate, it's out of wanting a good game. Unfortunately to many fanbois tend to think those of us like that are attacking them personally and that's when idiocy ensues.

 

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by fulmanfu

 

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Originally posted by Maxzius
It just goes to show how boring Vanguard really is when there is a thread devoted to another game.

---

what does it say about other games then, that so many people who hate this game spend so much time on its forums?

 

I think the situation, more than anything, has struck a cord on both sides.

On one hand, I think alot of people that were looking forward to the release but have subsquently been treated poorly by the game and the community need to get their oppinions of their chest, this is a good thing and it's deserve in my oppinion.

On the other, there's rational people who believe the game needs time and a little caring to be good. They'll not hesitate to point out those flaws but it's not out of spite or hate, it's out of wanting a good game. Unfortunately to many fanbois tend to think those of us like that are attacking them personally and that's when idiocy ensues.

 

Couldn't agree more, I like Vanguard for what it is, but I love LotR for what IT is. When I post about Vanguard flaws and get my head bit off (mainly on other forums) I was just trying to point out that covering up a games flaws will not help the said game at all.....

Nice pic. BTW, on one end of that hall is Bag End and on the Other I think is where Sauron hangs out. In between are all the human settlements. The Elves are just around the block there.

Originally posted by Markaj

However, LOTRO never claimed to create...

LOTRO never claimed it would be ...

LOTRO never claimed realistic graphics...

LOTRO never came big with many classes and never claimed ...

           

So basically, LoTRO never claimed all that much and delivered on it's promises. Hurray for meeting low expectations. :p

Originally posted by Tautology

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

To both "authors" nice, to hear your own personal opinion.  LOTRO will not change much with respect to the issues I mentioned.  Vanguard is perhaps still buggier under certain aspects compaired to LOTRO which still is in beta. However, the statement regarding "not much living content to offer" is far off from the facts.  Content wise Vanguard has much more to offer than LOTRO. 

 

It's not even close. Only thing I give LOTRO credit for is running very smoothly. I wish VG could run that well. But in the area of "stuff to do" LOTRO might have less of it than any MMO I can think of upon release.

LOTRO has been a very polished beta, and the earlier steepish graphics demands improved quite a bit with the release of the beta2 client. It will do very well amongst fans of the IP and those who like 10minute casual & solo orientated quests with a gear upgrade at the end. Grouping is a problem because so many questlines are linear with solo quests at the start and group bits at the end, although the group bits are nearly all easy enough to accomplish solo with any care. WoW is very successful for many reasons, LOTRO attempts to emulate them all, but more so, it's easier, faster, smaller, and less complex - many people will like it for that, and good luck to them. However LOTRO doesn't have much to offer in comparison for PvP or endgame content really, raids & PvP aren't a patch on WoW. LOTRO is very pretty, if graphics will sustain you rather than gameplay for a long time then it's a plus for it.


Now for my actual reaction to playing it. Well I'd far rather pay for VG, bugs and all than spend any more time in the LOTRO beta, there's a few weeks of gameplay there at best for my demographic of gamer tbh, and all of that past the initial few days felt a chore. It's just so laughably easy, it feels a little like one of those well meaning but slightly patronising activity fairs for the less gifted where everyone who turns up gets a medal saying Participant! There's no viable character customisation, gear is pointless as it has negligible  effect and there's no upsides to playing well or badly as there are no meaningful rewards or consequences to either. Dungeons are sad and generic, mobs simply hit you or occasionally shoot arrows and are devoid of tactics, all classes are massively overpowered, quests can't be begun until they are trivial etc.

My opinion seems to be echoed by all the guildies who tried it, including the ones happily playing WoW, so it's not for everyone. I'm sure plenty will enjoy it for a while, it is very pretty and does welcome you in nicely, if you have very short amounts of online time it will help to stretch the shallow gameplay and rather tired content.

Some of the initial quest-lines in the solo bit let you feel like you are going to be part of a story, but once the prologue is over the truth gradually drags you down, you get directed to a new zone where you harvest boar feet, teeth, hides & snouts, then the same for lynx, then bears then mosquito's, then you move onto a new zone where you harvest boars then lynx then bears then mosquito's then a new zone etc etc. there are a few quests on a par with the questlines in VG, but the LOTRO decent ones are so drowned out by the deluge of drivel and constant new equipment rewards for basically being able to run to a spot on a map you find it very hard to care about them.

Originally posted by Markaj

What little Vanbois fail to grasp is the difference between design and failure, potential and reality, lies and facts. First of all, LOTRO is not as tiny and crampy as you are trying to misrepresent. It is huge and it is only smaller “in comparison” to Vanguard

However, LOTRO never claimed to create the “humongoustest” world of the gaming scene anyway. Unlike Sigil who made bigger claims than they could chew. LOTRO’s world is full of “active content”; villages, quests, npcs, points of interest, etc everywhere. Your big ass world in Sigil is meaninglessly empty, tediously uninteresting and terribly bland. Have fun running in it! Ah, that is if you can run from stuttering, hitching, crashing or chunk loading! Btw, have fun with the “.ini” tweaking craze!

Oh, did I say chunk loading? LOTRO never claimed it would be without instances. VG made a big ass claim and fell on the face again. Your chunks (deceptive version of “zone loading”) take longer to load than LOTRO instances, not to mention the fact that they are buggy to load. Oh my God, this “no instance” thing is a pure lie and even the lie itself is buggy! (Ya ya, don’t attempt the “visual distance” on me!)

LOTRO never claimed realistic graphics, unlike Sigil who gave us realistic trees and realistic grounds for a realistic world… sadly full of barbie doll characters in atari claymation, meaningless structures that is completely incongrous with a fantasy setting and dead looking npcs. What is VG anyway? A fantasy world? Another planet in Milky Way? Don’t pay for generic games my friend, they are free!

LOTRO never came big with many classes and never claimed that. So, you can have your 100 races and zillion classes whacked completely out of balance! I will be happy with the few balanced, polished, distinctive and working classes, thank you!

Ah, forgot to mention “depth” Describe depth! Your little card grindfest? Boring to the point of suicide crafting? %500 times slowed down xp? I wouldn’t call these depth. I wouldn’t call level loss, corpse runs, slow ass traveling “depth”. These are sad old little timesink tricks to prevent you from getting to the endgame quickly, so that you would pay 2 more months before you see what is there… which is nothing! 

            Not a penny here anymore to unfulfilled promises, unmaterialised potential or big ass empty claims   

 

Bravo my friend, you hit Vanguard: Saga of being bored off you ass for hours on end... right on the head

Originally posted by Invidious

Originally posted by Tautology

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

To both "authors" nice, to hear your own personal opinion.  LOTRO will not change much with respect to the issues I mentioned.  Vanguard is perhaps still buggier under certain aspects compaired to LOTRO which still is in beta. However, the statement regarding "not much living content to offer" is far off from the facts.  Content wise Vanguard has much more to offer than LOTRO. 

 

 

 

It's not even close. Only thing I give LOTRO credit for is running very smoothly. I wish VG could run that well. But in the area of "stuff to do" LOTRO might have less of it than any MMO I can think of upon release.

Well I am pretty sure the LotRO players would like to know the fun and exciting things you and some of the other players have been doing in VSoH so please do tell?

I assume your not near building a house or a boat, so please tell us all the features that Vanguard offers that makes it have so much more content.......

Originally posted by squeaky1

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Sorry I cannot agree - having played both Vanguard feels like a true MMO, LoTR does not.

VG has depth, a huge playing area thats well populated... oh christ I won't go on as everyone here has read this again and again and again...

No offense, but well populated? I've tried 3 servers and they all felt like ghost towns, even at Medium population. I always got a response when Shouting, but I saw very few other players. If I stood still, and did a 360, I might see one, possibly two, other players in a given settlement within my field of vision. And in the wilderness? I rarely saw other players. The world is huge, I understand, but a week or two into release and it seems empty. I gotta think that's going to make grouping difficult as you wait forever for people to show up (as I understand it, there's no summoming stones or other expeditious methods of getting to a group?).

Excessive numbers of people is exactly one problem I have had with games like WoW.  Unless you're in an instance, there are people almost everywhere!  It feels like you're playing in a themepark.

I prefer seeing the occasional person unless I am specifically looking to join a group.  I don't mind waiting a bit if neccessary.

And /who always gets capped at 40 results on Varking

Every outpost, village or town i come accross have people in them. 

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by squeaky1

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Sorry I cannot agree - having played both Vanguard feels like a true MMO, LoTR does not.

VG has depth, a huge playing area thats well populated... oh christ I won't go on as everyone here has read this again and again and again...

No offense, but well populated? I've tried 3 servers and they all felt like ghost towns, even at Medium population. I always got a response when Shouting, but I saw very few other players. If I stood still, and did a 360, I might see one, possibly two, other players in a given settlement within my field of vision. And in the wilderness? I rarely saw other players. The world is huge, I understand, but a week or two into release and it seems empty. I gotta think that's going to make grouping difficult as you wait forever for people to show up (as I understand it, there's no summoming stones or other expeditious methods of getting to a group?).

Excessive numbers of people is exactly one problem I have had with games like WoW.  Unless you're in an instance, there are people almost everywhere!  It feels like you're playing in a themepark.

I prefer seeing the occasional person unless I am specifically looking to join a group.  I don't mind waiting a bit if neccessary.

And /who always gets capped at 40 results on Varking

Every outpost, village or town i come accross have people in them. 

Indeed, some areas are almost crowded. When I do my crafting in Leth Nurae, there's always a bunch of people there. Even at Konarthi Point, which most people don't have a reason to go to, I saw people.

The only reason Vanguard doesn't feel like it's crowded ala ironforge, is because the game is so huge.

Originally posted by Rayx0r

everytime someone has something good to say about this game here, the Ringbois come out of nowhere to post their overly bloomed screenshots.

I think im going to start trolling the LotRO forums by posting screenshots of SUN and Huxley in attempt to debunk anything that game might have going for it positively, even if its not relevant like whats going on in this thread.

point is, its a screenshot and while it may look nice and bloomy.. cannot detract from how linear Lord of the Rings Online is and what a fishbowl it is.

just get ready for another 5 or 6 posts with LotRO screenshots showing nothing relevant to the OP's post

rock on you guys!

Hey, everyone has a right to their opinion.  I'm sure there actually are some of you that think Vanguard is better than LOTRO.  I'm sure some of you like large open empty monotonous landscapes with little real artistic appeal or style.   If that's you and you feel that way about Vanguard, great, you have every right to feel that way.

However, those of us who've played vanguard, got suckered into buying the game, also have a right to express our dissapointment in all of the things you like.  We also have the right to say that we prefer a game that doesn't force us to spend hours of wasted time travelling through empty uninspiring landmasses.  We have the right to ask for a game that gives us depth of story, quality artistic style that varies and makes sense to the story and world around us.  We have the right to not be forced to find others of a like mind simply to be order to make any real progression.  We also have the right to not put up with penalties for deaths due to shoddy coding, poor mob ai and poorly designed world geometry.

We also have the right to a quality piece of software with a graphics engine that operates effeciently and a server infrastructure that doesn't warp the NPCs we are fighting all over the place. 

Yeah, we all have our rights.

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Sorry I cannot agree - having played both Vanguard feels like a true MMO, LoTR does not.

VG has depth, a huge playing area thats well populated... oh christ I won't go on as everyone here has read this again and again and again...

You know, Nvidia was known for their forum marketing efforts.  They, or their marketing firm, had people who were paid to troll forums and post positive things about their video cards, often critising the competition without actual facts, just baseless "untruths" if you will.

I am starting to see some similar trends here.  Having played VG since early beta and having seen it degrade into the mess it is today, and knowing without a doubt that these claims of "huge playing area that's well populated (that one made me laugh) I have to wonder.... are you paid marketing bots?

And yeah we've read it again and again and again because of the few of you who post this stuff.   What's got me curious is if this game is so great that you can't pull yourself away from it, why are you here posting when you can be playing? 

As for the rest of us we have good reason to post our opinions.  We paid and got taken.  Maybe not intentionally but certainly this game isn't ready for release and it certainly isn't ready to be paid for.

Yes, all people who don't share your opinion mut be paid to have different taste as part of some conspiracy.

The only money relevant to me is I pay to play VG because even it's bug ridden state right now it is a vastly more satisfying experience for me than the shallow chore-grind of LOTRO. Bugs can get fixed, but design you pretty much have to live with, so I can't see a future where LOTRO would be an acceptibly complex & engaging product. Anyway who cares, make up your own mind.

Oh and right now I've got time to post because I'm sailing, to our next place to explore, on our boat, and I'm not driving :P