What really annoyed me with LOTRO is: boring crafting, lack of character customisation, the size (its tiny! LOTR is about traveling and journeys, in this game your are in minutes nearly everywhere, and ZONES! Yes there are zones in LOTRO). Also, inspite of the robust LOTRO 3d engine (mostly do tue low polygon models, check out the trees, the stumps, the heads of chars), I enjoy more the 3d engine of Vanguard (it has a little more mature touch to it, and how far you can see).

Since I've Vanguard I havent logged into LOTRO (after 4 weeks in LOTRO you had the feeling you've seen it all), gave the key to my young sister, she is new to mmorpgs. Meanwhile I have a lvl 13 blacksmith and am enjoying harvesting also a lot and love the lore provided through diplomacy missions.  The combat missions are on the same level in each game (nothing new here).  Both games have a different target group. LOTRO attracts more youngsters with low end machines, or people who are new to mmorpgs or play multiple mmorpgs and just one and a while log in for 30 minutes.

I agree completely. One of the first things I noticed is all the characters around me looked pretty much the same as I did. The character models are disappointing and look like something from last generation. That's actually kinda funny cause the whole game feels like it's just a rehash of the DDO engine with LOTR content slapped on. Though they don't even have the innovative combat system of DDO . I also found the character animations to be horrible, have you ever seen one of the Elves run? Combat animations were jerky and actually skipped around somewhat.

Honestly LOTRO feels like it's just DDO version 1.5 .

How am I supposed to be motivated to play LOTRO with it's bland and uninspired graphics, settings, engine, and systems, when Vanguard continually blows me away in all those areas? Sure people say  LOTRO runs great, but that doesn't really matter if it looks like ass does it?

For reference, I took some comparitive screenshots (note the Vanguard one is actually from Beta, to be fair):
LOTRO: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4913/screenshot00006qq6.jpg
Vanguard: http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1340/screenshot11ar3.jpg

The difference is worth a thousand words.

everytime someone has something good to say about this game here, the Ringbois come out of nowhere to post their overly bloomed screenshots.

I think im going to start trolling the LotRO forums by posting screenshots of SUN and Huxley in attempt to debunk anything that game might have going for it positively, even if its not relevant like whats going on in this thread.

point is, its a screenshot and while it may look nice and bloomy.. cannot detract from how linear Lord of the Rings Online is and what a fishbowl it is.

just get ready for another 5 or 6 posts with LotRO screenshots showing nothing relevant to the OP's post

rock on you guys!

i am going to quote a post made by someone, mainly cause he wrote everything i wanted to say and i am too lazy to type it all out, but in a nut shell i agree with this guy 100%

Post

Confessions of a Vanguard fanboy...
I was a believer. Vanguard was going to be "The One," the game that would finally bring back the magical days of MMOGs that I hadn't experienced since the first few years of the original EverQuest. I spent three years following Vanguard, absolutely convinced that Brad McQuaid's vision was the holy grail.

Difficult to level? Check.
No instancing? Check.
Realistic, non-WoW-cartoon graphics? Check.
Painful death penalty? Check.
Meaningful travel? Check.
Huge, epic world? Check.

After finally being admitted to VG beta in Beta 4, I anxiously downloaded the client, eagerly awaiting my arrival in the land of Telon. And sure enough, it loaded up and was gorgeous. Buggy and laggy as heck, but gorgeous. All my MMOG veteran friends joined too, very excited to try the game. This was it! Launch day came and went; we started up a guild and prepared to experience the game that was destined to occupy our gaming lives over the next five years.

Or not.

3 weeks later, most of us have left Vanguard, and most others are considering leaving very soon, returning to WoW or awaiting LOTRO. Simply put, despite all the hype, Vanguard is not much fun. My checklist above, which sounded so amazing in theory, results in an incredibly stale gaming experience. Now, I freely admit that part of this may be because I'm not 21 years old anymore and able to pull all-night EQ marathons like I could in college. I'm now married, with other things I like to do besides being absolutely shackled to a game world. I simply have no desire to spend every waking hour playing a game. And that's a problem, because in Vanguard, it takes absolutely FOREVER to do anything. Want to get your guild together for a group? Better get ready to wait an hour while everyone rides their mounts across virtual miles of mindnumbing land mass to meet up. Want to just grind out a bit of experience and level so you can get that new set of spells? In their efforts to combat power gamers, the developers have punished the entire community by reducing leveling speed to the equivalent of watching paint dry. There is so much more to online games than leveling, but the current rate of exp gain in Vanguard is simply torture once you hit the mid-levels.

Just want to roleplay and pretend you're living in Telon? You'll be disappointed. This was drilled home to me when my buddy and I took a trip to see the main human city on the high fantasy continent of Thestra. Now, we had our level 10 mounts so the journey from a bit north of the same continent *only* took about 40 minutes. No matter. I was anxious to see this place because I'd heard the city was beautiful and huge, and it was.

It was also absolutely empty, a virtual ghost town 3 weeks after release.

Except of course for the dozens of lifeless NPCs. We could have spent hours exploring this place without running into more than 10 other player characters there. Same with the dwarf city. Gorgeous, yet completely lifeless.

Which kind of sums up Vanguard in general. As a character in that game, I have no purpose. Quests are mindless grind-fests. My character does not feel remotely important, I'm simply another cog amongst thousands of other cogs just grinding away in one giant time-sink. No feeling of accomplishment. No true sense of adventure and fun. Diplomacy? Interesting, until I hit 50 skill and discovered a deck that let me defeat NPCs 50 skill above me. Every. Single. Time. And get this - I only had to play two cards. The NPCs were then powerless to do anything except "listen" to me for 10 more rounds until the diplomacy conversation was over and I skilled up yet again. This was not an exploit. It was a valid deck, played over and over and over again against NPCs repeating the same exact conversation for no other purpose than to ding my diplomacy skill every few minutes. Mindless.

Simply put, friends, I was disappointed and upset that this game I'd been waiting on for years had let me down. Let's not even mention the performance problems that plague it, where even the system I bought explicitly FOR Vanguard, which far exceeded its recommended requirements, still chugged like absolute **** in some areas...

Then, this past weekend, my brother (and Vanguard guild leader) called me. Hadn't I been accepted into LOTRO beta a while back? Well yeah, but I'd never pursued it really. After all, Vanguard beta was in full swing and that was to be THE game, after all. He told me he'd just applied for beta, and been accepted, and urged me to try the beta myself.

I was skeptical. I considered WoW to be very Carebear and was afraid LOTRO would just be more of the same. Simple, mindlessly satisfying at first, but short-lived.

But, I was a Tolkien fan, a huge fan of the films, and wanted to believe in a game like I had once believed in Vanguard, so I agreed to give it a try. I downloaded the client and created a hobbit.

My conversion didn't take long. After weeks of feeling absolutely insignificant and bored in Vanguard, my small hobbit encountered that frightening Black Rider and was quickly rescued by a handful of valiant elves!! I sat there with a huge grin on my face that still hasn't completely vanished. I was PART of this story! I was watching epic events unfold! These quests were story-driven and purposeful. Cities were lively and the NPCs FELT real, not like mindless drones. The charm of the characters that Tolkien created was evident even in the most trivial NPCs in town. I've since created an elf and worked him up to Level 10, and I simply cannot believe how much I've fallen in love with this game.

I'll wrap this up because I've taken up enough of your time already. Friends, LOTRO is the game I have been waiting for, and I didn't even know it. It's shown me that many of my preconceived, elitist views about what was needed for a deep and engrossing online game were completely flawed, while reminding me what great gameplay is all about. LOTRO was hiding right under my nose this entire time, and I consider myself fortunate to have stumbled onto it before release so I can be there at the birth of this wonderful new adventure. I've heard complaints that the LOTRO world is too small. Coming from the vast, barren world of Vanguard, let me tell you that the geographical size of LOTRO at launch, to my mind, is absolutely perfect, with expansions guaranteed to add more amazing territory. As Vanguard demonstrates, virtual real estate means nothing if it's dull and lifeless, and LOTRO is absolutely overflowing with life and adventure every step of my travels! I've discovered that instancing, done in moderation, is almost required for a meaningful gaming experience, and LOTRO incorporates instances brilliantly. The final instance in the introduction for the elves was absolutely amazing. I could go on and on, but I'll conclude with this: I am so happy that my virtual life is going to be spent in the lands of Middle Earth instead of the land of Telon!!! Thanks for listening.

posted by Darklighter1976 : Today at 05:42 AM.

anyway, just my 2 cents.

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Originally posted by Rayx0r

everytime someone has something good to say about this game here, the Ringbois come out of nowhere to post their overly bloomed screenshots.

I think im going to start trolling the LotRO forums by posting screenshots of SUN and Huxley in attempt to debunk anything that game might have going for it positively, even if its not relevant like whats going on in this thread.

point is, its a screenshot and while it may look nice and bloomy.. cannot detract from how linear Lord of the Rings Online is and what a fishbowl it is.

just get ready for another 5 or 6 posts with LotRO screenshots showing nothing relevant to the OP's post

rock on you guys!

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

To both "authors" nice, to hear your own personal opinion.  LOTRO will not change much with respect to the issues I mentioned.  Vanguard is perhaps still buggier under certain aspects compaired to LOTRO which still is in beta. However, the statement regarding "not much living content to offer" is far off from the facts.  Content wise Vanguard has much more to offer than LOTRO. 

Also, you actually only have combat in LOTRO nothing much more (and the pve is even poorer compared to the complexity Vanguards combat system has to offer). 

Nevertheless we are acting here all like little children which try to compare the size of their toys and cry "mine is bigger"

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Not saying that i dont like what LOTR offers....presently playing beta now...but what are you talking about "living" content? The NPC's stand around in both games... some have some paths that are interesting but overall both games do things with NPC's that are not out of the ordinary...

You mean living in someone else's story? LOTR has lots of written content but might suffer the same problems that SWG had....LOTR already has heroes and an ending...though this really only hampers role players. Its going to be hard to stay true to the story and make content...Lore masters? they are changing things already...and they really could not add mages ... so the story is kinda hampering classes already.

Perhaps your talking about players? Vanguard has enough to keep things operating...dont really want the servers clogged and waiting lines to get in. Players in vanguard are active.

 

Originally posted by Tautology

Originally posted by starman999

Originally posted by shae

LOL, this has to be the most ironic thing ever but the only way I can reply is the exact same way every single Vanguard Fanbois replied  for the 4 weeks before it was released.

LoTRO IS IN BETA!!! Your quite literaly comparing a game that's gone gold, shipped and is on shelves to a game that's only now gearing up for a stress test.

How amazing is it that every single Vanbois would have killed anyone on these forums for comparing EQ2 to Vanguard while in beta but now it's all sorts of acceptable.

Absolutely agree.........

The fact that VG went retail under the dubious condition of the devs begging the gaming community "please buy our unfinished game so we dont go bankrupt" is enough to warn me off about it. Vast areas of landscape do not equal an immersive gaming environment. I feel much more immersed in a small area with lots of engaging characters than with a whole planet that looks and feels empty.

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

To both "authors" nice, to hear your own personal opinion.  LOTRO will not change much with respect to the issues I mentioned.  Vanguard is perhaps still buggier under certain aspects compaired to LOTRO which still is in beta. However, the statement regarding "not much living content to offer" is far off from the facts.  Content wise Vanguard has much more to offer than LOTRO. 

Also, you actually only have combat in LOTRO nothing much more (and the pve is even poorer compared to the complexity Vanguards combat system has to offer). 

Nevertheless we are acting here all like little children which try to compare the size of their toys and cry "mine is bigger"

 

I'm not saying that LoTRO will change drastically in the time between now and release.

What I AM saying is that people were crucified here back when open beta happend and the NDA was lifted if anyone compared the game to anything that was already released.

\But yet, where are those people now when it's another game?

I'm just saying, it's a shame, that's all.

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by starman999

Bottom line is aside from great character customization and pretty landscapes VG doesnt have much living content to offer.

Sorry I cannot agree - having played both Vanguard feels like a true MMO, LoTR does not.

VG has depth, a huge playing area thats well populated... oh christ I won't go on as everyone here has read this again and again and again...

im far from a 'vanboi', im not really that thrilled with the game that has been put out at all.

but i agree 100% with lotro, its pretty in a wow cartoony sort of way, but even that guys screenshot above, doesnt exactly get me excited. its a small game, semi-hardcore gamer is done with it in a month. few classes, no way to diferentiate yourself from everyone else who plays the same class. no customization is what gets me the most. and no, the fact that you have one champion can have a different color beard than another doesn't impress me.

if you buy lotro thinking single player , finish it and move on sort of game its ok. but its no game thats going to hold you for the foreseeable future(not saying vanguard is)