Originally posted by Gooney
I think one must remember Microsofts experiance with MMOs. 

I think they simply came to the conclusion that MMOs werent nearly as profitable as operating systems.  I also think that the twin happenings of AC2s melt down and WoWs sky rocket made a couple of things clear to them.

1. Making, Maintaining, and Running an MMO is a business in and of itself, requiring infrastructure, capital and talent.
2. Making a real hit would require double-diget millions invested.

Remember that MS cut Asherons Call loose after a long run, I dont think that game ever produced for MS what they were hoping for.  I think there was a time early on where MS fancied a place as a MMO power house and was going to use AC as a proof  of concept.  WoW showed them that it could be done but the investement was far far more than MS was willing to dedicate. 

MS produces very very few games themselves, Blizzard on the other hand has games as thier core business, so WoWs creation made sense to them.  MS just wants to acquire things and milk them for a moderate investment.

For Microsofts games are made to sell thier operating system.  Just like MS Office or any of the other thousand products with the MS sticker on them.  If they can pick up a product "on  the cheap" fine, they will do it with the understanding the product offer is what keeps MS Windows dominant.  If they find they all the sudden must have a 100 million dollar investment in hardware, software and people....

It simply wont add up for them.

For SOE on the other hand, MMOs ARE their core business, they have the infrastructure, capital, and talent.  VG is an easy fit.

In short, the last year made MS reconsider the viability of MMOs in thier whole product line and to re-evaluate just how much would a success MMO actually mean for them and thier core business.

-Gooney

Originally posted by Chieftan
Here's my theory:

In the summer of 2006 MS audits their Sigil/Vanguard investment.  They see that VG is a mess.  The game is still in very rough form and alot of the gameplay concepts are not only flawed but poorly implemented.

MS convenes on the subject and decides to pull the plug.

Brad calls up his old buddy at SOE and asks for a big favor. 

Smed thinks about it and tells Brad OK, but those funky gameplay devices have to go in favor of a more mainstream design.  In other words, do what SOE did; when in doubt, copy the competition. 

Quest icons begin appearing over the heads of NPCs all over Telon.

Sigil and Microsoft part ways, MS sighs relief and SOE starts working with Sigil to smooth over the gameplay and get VG on store shelves asap.  Smed tells Brad to quit posting on MMO message boards. 

Well, he can still post but he has to use alternyms.

I went with BURN SOE... etc. Basically because I detest the americanisation of FAVOUR. Spell it right folks. Christ...

Oh yeah, and because SOE are somewhere between the gaming equivalent of the Republican party, and the Devil incarnate...

Originally posted by Gooney

Originally posted by Chieftan
Here's my theory:

In the summer of 2006 MS audits their Sigil/Vanguard investment.  They see that VG is a mess.  The game is still in very rough form and alot of the gameplay concepts are not only flawed but poorly implemented.

MS convenes on the subject and decides to pull the plug.

Brad calls up his old buddy at SOE and asks for a big favor. 

Smed thinks about it and tells Brad OK, but those funky gameplay devices have to go in favor of a more mainstream design.  In other words, do what SOE did; when in doubt, copy the competition. 

Quest icons begin appearing over the heads of NPCs all over Telon.

Sigil and Microsoft part ways, MS sighs relief and SOE starts working with Sigil to smooth over the gameplay and get VG on store shelves asap.  Smed tells Brad to quit posting on MMO message boards. 

Well, he can still post but he has to use alternyms.

Somehow I doubt that.  To accept that you'd have to hop on the conspiracy wagon, while Im sure a certain segment of fans/former fans would love to believe that there was a ton of personal intrigue with this it boils down to one thing with MS.  Dollars, plain and simple.  MS realised that to be competitive in the MMO market you have to be focused and go "whole hog".  This only became apparent to them after a combination of circumstances (although the writting was on the wall for a while).

1.  Incredibly crowded market, korea-imports, one-offs, indies, and big brands.
2.  Realisation that in order to dominate they would have to build a whole MMO specific department.
3.  If they were going to build a whole department they would have to move development "in-house".
4.  The realisation that they did not NEED an MMO to sell their flagship product (OS).

As I said, Vanguard wasnt the first MS MMO Collaboration there had been other attempts, AC, AC2, Mythica, and finally Vanguard...that we know about Im sure there were others.  All of them were created by other shops, not MS themselves.

I dont think people fully understand the impact that Blizzard has had on the industry, they forced a total re-evaluation of how much investment was required.  Heck, even Mythic Entertainment voluntarily became assimilated by EA because of this.  SOE exists solely for MMOs, MS wasnt prepared to go that far in light of the poor MMO performance of every title other than WoW.

-Gooney

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Gooney

Originally posted by Chieftan
Here's my theory:

In the summer of 2006 MS audits their Sigil/Vanguard investment.  They see that VG is a mess.  The game is still in very rough form and alot of the gameplay concepts are not only flawed but poorly implemented.

MS convenes on the subject and decides to pull the plug.

Brad calls up his old buddy at SOE and asks for a big favor. 

Smed thinks about it and tells Brad OK, but those funky gameplay devices have to go in favor of a more mainstream design.  In other words, do what SOE did; when in doubt, copy the competition. 

Quest icons begin appearing over the heads of NPCs all over Telon.

Sigil and Microsoft part ways, MS sighs relief and SOE starts working with Sigil to smooth over the gameplay and get VG on store shelves asap.  Smed tells Brad to quit posting on MMO message boards. 

Well, he can still post but he has to use alternyms.

Somehow I doubt that.  To accept that you'd have to hop on the conspiracy wagon, while Im sure a certain segment of fans/former fans would love to believe that there was a ton of personal intrigue with this it boils down to one thing with MS.  Dollars, plain and simple.  MS realised that to be competitive in the MMO market you have to be focused and go "whole hog".  This only became apparent to them after a combination of circumstances (although the writting was on the wall for a while).

1.  Incredibly crowded market, korea-imports, one-offs, indies, and big brands.
2.  Realisation that in order to dominate they would have to build a whole MMO specific department.
3.  If they were going to build a whole department they would have to move development "in-house".
4.  The realisation that they did not NEED an MMO to sell their flagship product (OS).

As I said, Vanguard wasnt the first MS MMO Collaboration there had been other attempts, AC, AC2, Mythica, and finally Vanguard...that we know about Im sure there were others.  All of them were created by other shops, not MS themselves.

I dont think people fully understand the impact that Blizzard has had on the industry, they forced a total re-evaluation of how much investment was required.  Heck, even Mythic Entertainment voluntarily became assimilated by EA because of this.  SOE exists solely for MMOs, MS wasnt prepared to go that far in light of the poor MMO performance of every title other than WoW.

-Gooney

 
No.  MS looked at what was done of VG and decided that it was too buggy, unfinished and inferior to the competition to be worth sinking any more money into.  Kendrick just recently said on the FoH boards that VG would only need 120k subscribers to turn a profit.  That's the business model they've had from the get go.

Microsoft apparently did not think it was going to even reach 120k.  They went through that with AC2 and they were not going to repeat the same mistake.  Without SOE's help Vanguard would most likely have been cancelled entirely.

I expect SOE to completely buy out the rights or quietly assimilate Vanguard within the next 6 months.  Graphically the game is complete and now it's just a matter of firing Brad and the incompetent Sigil team and installing some decent gameplay mechanics.