oh and dont get me started on how retarded the dancing was and how dumb it looked, which was incorporated into forcing players to watch it.  I cant remember what it was called but SWG had things like that that made you completely rely on others who specialized for everything.  It never was my cup of tea in its initial direction when it came out since like i said it looked to me they were focusing more on forcing people to socialize than playing a fun game.   However that space expansion they had made me think they might've changed philosophies or added to what it might've lacked.   dunno since i havent gone back since those early days. 

Originally posted by rohbshop

oh gimme a break.  SWG's combat was TERRIBLE.  I believe they redid or were planning on redoing their combat system when WoW/EQ2 were being released, just prior to their space expansion because it was so bad, i dont know exactly what became of that.  SWG was also more focused on community than actual fun play and gaming.  Its like they tried to encourage a virtual society more than a fun game. 

I played SWG the first days it was released and there was literally no content in that game.  I know they added alot, and i wanted to try it when the space expansion hit because i thought that was a great and revolutionary idea, the thought of having my own house and then having a space ship sounded awesome(hate the idea of just being limited to a spaceship as you like in Eve).  Altho i never checked back with it. 

anyway SWG imo was a total letdown.  It got so much hype with Raph Koster, UO lead designer leading it, then with Sony and LucasArts, and from what i gather it only gained the playerbase it did mostly because it catered to the online community type of people, who were looking more for social interaction than gaming.

Originally posted by eshi
AAAHHH!!!, will people please stop calling MMORPG's skill,  there is no skill at all, try playing a real skill based game like AOE 3, where you actually have to think every second.  MMORPG's are usually just coming up with a good combo and combining it with a bunch of other people with other combo's and spaming attacks when needed, that takes no skill, unless you count hitting a button as skill.  Although the button is always soo much fun to hit!

edit: make sure you go post about your favorite grind, woot woot!

Originally posted by jimmyman99
I beg to differ, in UO, your armor determins how hard someone hits u, just like your weapon and skill(game skill, not your personal one) determins how hard u hit the opponent... Just like in WoW. With Eve - same story, new char with newbie weapon is in no way competetive vs seasoned player. However, in Eve it is slightly easierto be a noob since you can become a tackler in a group fight, but still, you wont be a real hitter, just someone to suicide but slow down the enemy so your main force can intercept and destroy him. You dont stand a chance against someone in a ship that is 100x times larger then yours (im talking here from the noob, just joined eve and someone with 10 mil SPs perspective, not someone in a noob ship but with 10mil SPs). So this all looks just like WoW, except there is no level dependancy, but rather item, skill or a combination of those 2.

when I PvPed in WoW, sometimes my group of 10 kicked 20-men enemy group, and sometimes 5-men group kicked our 10-men group ass. Sometimes the enemy is dumb and uses basic autoattack *snicker*... but sometimes the basterds use crazy stunts that leave me eyes-out-on-the-monitor-jaw-down-on-the-ground saying "how the F$%^&^ did he do that"? Try being a rogue, a subtiety rogue in wow, I had so much fun because most rogues are combat ones, and those do not have that many options to escape or stun. Subtiety rogues deal less dmg but have many skills (in-game) to escape the fight just to jump right in onto the enemy who though im running away for my life. Takes skills (real ones) to use skills (in-game) to beat an opponent of equal strength.

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by rohbshop

oh gimme a break.  SWG's combat was TERRIBLE.  I believe they redid or were planning on redoing their combat system when WoW/EQ2 were being released, just prior to their space expansion because it was so bad, i dont know exactly what became of that.  SWG was also more focused on community than actual fun play and gaming.  Its like they tried to encourage a virtual society more than a fun game. 

I played SWG the first days it was released and there was literally no content in that game.  I know they added alot, and i wanted to try it when the space expansion hit because i thought that was a great and revolutionary idea, the thought of having my own house and then having a space ship sounded awesome(hate the idea of just being limited to a spaceship as you like in Eve).  Altho i never checked back with it. 

anyway SWG imo was a total letdown.  It got so much hype with Raph Koster, UO lead designer leading it, then with Sony and LucasArts, and from what i gather it only gained the playerbase it did mostly because it catered to the online community type of people, who were looking more for social interaction than gaming.

Delusion WOW fanboy?

I think so.

Please stop commenting on things you obviously (and admittedly) know nothing about.

Please head back to WOW, "a grind awaits".

LAWL like SWG doesnt have 10x's the grind WoW has,

or 1/10th its players.

go have fun in that virtual like you wanna live on Naboo

PS the only thing i wish WoW had that SWG does is housing, but id rather have UO housing than SWG.   Oh and AC's casinos

Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by rohbshop

Its not instance based nearly as much as EQ and it has more diversity according to level than all of them.  For each level period(say every 5 levels) there are at least 3-4+ completely different areas applicable to that person as a change of scenery.  Most other mmorpg's you get a max of 2.   Its got a full world to explore that isnt cutoff by having to finish a quest/leveling to gain access.

WoW is very misportrayed on this forum because its not nearly as 'simple' as many of you lead others to believe.  Like i keep saying i've played YOURE mmorpg's and none of them have that much more depth than WoW and not nearly as much as many of you portray.   The only thing i'll say is a fact is most other games have much longer treadmills to rewards than WoW, and i think thats what many of you prefer, then presume to call WoW 'simple'.

Disagree completely. Firstly, WOW has zones. To me - zoning really sucks especially in the supposedly 'next generation' of MMORPGs.

Secondly, WOWs world isn't cutoff by having to finish a level or quest? You are kidding me right. WOW has a linear or set path that you take all the way to level 60. Now of course you don't have to follow this path if you don't want...but hell, as quests are often restricted by level so your pretty much screwed if you wish to skip ahead a little.

AC1 - you can walk anywhere, anytime, talking to anyone at any level. Think you can handle the quest to kill a level 250 lugian at level 5, give it a shot! See that mountain over there on the horizon - walk there! Newby that wants to explore? Just head off in any direction and you will likely find plenty of changes in scenery, remote dungeons, secluded beaches, huge mountains - did i mention there was no zones? Did i mention you didn't feel like you were often surounded by a mountain range that was simply put there to fence you in? Bahh...

Again, you are simply showing your fanboism for WOW. Give it a rest. You are only fooling yourself.

Originally posted by rohbshop

LAWL like SWG doesnt have 10x's the grind WoW has,

or 1/10th its players.

go have fun in that virtual like you wanna live on Naboo

 

PS the only thing i wish WoW had that SWG does is housing, but id rather have UO housing than SWG.   Oh and AC's casinos

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by jimmyman99
I beg to differ, in UO, your armor determins how hard someone hits u, just like your weapon and skill(game skill, not your personal one) determins how hard u hit the opponent... Just like in WoW. With Eve - same story, new char with newbie weapon is in no way competetive vs seasoned player. However, in Eve it is slightly easierto be a noob since you can become a tackler in a group fight, but still, you wont be a real hitter, just someone to suicide but slow down the enemy so your main force can intercept and destroy him. You dont stand a chance against someone in a ship that is 100x times larger then yours (im talking here from the noob, just joined eve and someone with 10 mil SPs perspective, not someone in a noob ship but with 10mil SPs). So this all looks just like WoW, except there is no level dependancy, but rather item, skill or a combination of those 2.

when I PvPed in WoW, sometimes my group of 10 kicked 20-men enemy group, and sometimes 5-men group kicked our 10-men group ass. Sometimes the enemy is dumb and uses basic autoattack *snicker*... but sometimes the basterds use crazy stunts that leave me eyes-out-on-the-monitor-jaw-down-on-the-ground saying "how the F$%^&^ did he do that"? Try being a rogue, a subtiety rogue in wow, I had so much fun because most rogues are combat ones, and those do not have that many options to escape or stun. Subtiety rogues deal less dmg but have many skills (in-game) to escape the fight just to jump right in onto the enemy who though im running away for my life. Takes skills (real ones) to use skills (in-game) to beat an opponent of equal strength.

Sure, equipment matters but it is not the deciding factor like in WOW.

Oh yeah, killing people with a rogue required lots of skill - stun locks for the win!

you really dont know much since stunlocks arent game over and never were.  mebbe you needed to learn how to play your class better...

People have fun playing World of Warcraft.

Originally posted by Vinzent

Originally posted by roadwarriors  

And to the person who said perfection is a pov. Well th at is some F* up logic. That's like hitlotorian subjectivism. You can't argue that a mangled body is perfection even though it might be sadisitc perfection. We have discriptive language for a reason and that is to differentiate between frames of reference and universality. In terms of universal perfection, wow is the closest out of any mmorpg.

Sadistic perfection is a POV too. How about women. Some men like skinny women. Some men like fat women. Perfection is a POV.

Some basic philosophy for someone who is 30 and well educated. If you concede that there is such a thing as a point of view then you must also concede that there is an objective frame of refrence for to say something is subjective is to imply that the objective exists because without objectivism there is no subjectivism, the two exist because of each other. In essence to say that everything is a relative point of view and that there is no meaning to existence is a paradox since the statement itself is purposive and dictates a purposive being as a statement from the being which is you. In other words what is cannot be unless there was before and if there was before then there was and forever will be after. IT's that simple. Your argument is essentialy saying that something comes from nothing which can never happen and never has but enough sequencing arguments based on your perception of time. The truth is all men prefer a more fit woman as it is our genetic predispositiona nd evolutionary trait to want to mate with the best choice for survival but this also entails intellect and other qualities. Youa ccuse me of being narrowminded yhet your statement about the fact that women are chose solely based on their looks is narrowminded in itself. No man dates a women based on the way she looks. No matter what they say........and you can try to disprove me but until you come up with real evidence and not statements of opinion then your logic is flawed. All of the above is logical fact proven within the realm of the paradox of which we exist. For example no man wants to bang a big girl but it happens for reasons other than the reason responsible for wanting to bang and that is the paradox applied to this argument. install WOW.

Obviously you come from a third world country. Nearly every household in America has a computer and the kids do know how to use them.

Actually only the upper and middle class families of america generate enough income to afford a computer on an increment of a new one every 4 years even less for more than that and more units. For your information this is a total of at most 15 percent of our country, but as technology grows and the chasm between rich an dpoor grows the percentage of people who can afford computers goes down. I am talking about 15 year old kids here not college students who take out loans and buy crappy 800 dollar systems.... The number was taken out of a sociology book written many years ago so now it's probably like five percent...

Anyone over 30 has limited scope with computers and anyone under 20 does as well too. It's just facts man.

Made up facts. I'm over 30, I work in the video game industry, and I am well versed in computers. My generation grew up with them. My generation is making them. My generation is programming them.

Finally to correct you on the statement you made above yoru generation is not responsible for making and programming computers it is actuallyt eh generation above and bellow you. Your generation is actually, next to mine, the one that knows the least about computers...as refrenced from popular science...

edit: Just thought I'd also mention. If WoW is perfection, then weep all ye gamers. For there is nothing more to make, nothing more to play.

Originally posted by rohbshop

you really dont know much since stunlocks arent game over and never were.  mebbe you needed to learn how to play your class better...

Originally posted by roadwarriors
Once again I consolidate my position and make the outrageous claim that WOW is the closest thing to perfection any of you ahve ever experienced in terms of a mmorpg......i say close because it is lacking in certain areas but PVE wise it's the best...pvp second and all the rest is pish posh...

Originally posted by roadwarriors
Once again I consolidate my position and make the outrageous claim that WOW is the closest thing to perfection any of you ahve ever experienced in terms of a mmorpg......i say close because it is lacking in certain areas but PVE wise it's the best...pvp second and all the rest is pish posh...

Lets run down the list now PVE wise........for wow  and compare it to other games......

UO - Close but pve was slow and not very entertaining...A statement of fact. Neurologists study neuroactivity and link the activity to feeling sof excitment. More neuroactivity means more excitement hands down you can't argue this.

EQ - Same as above plus half hour down times = really really bad game. Any game where your staring at the screen doing nothing waiting almost a half hour for your mana and life to recharge is pathetic. And if your grouped you still have downtime but lets be fair and cut it downt o 25 minutes instead of 30...

EQ II - Well considering combat is still broken we can't even go here..........bad game mechanics = unfinished game.

Vanguard - Haven't played but from what I hear very uninspiring...

WOW. No downtime. Constant movement means constant thinking constant decision making but not intense to the point that causes anxiety which can slowly kill you like someo f the other games. Perfection achieved.

SWG - Combat not impletment yet even three years after release SWG is still using it's beta combat system....

Ever - No combat what so ever. Entirely micromanaged. Better then the rest for those who have trouble making spontaneous decisions but not more exciting.

Guild wars- Anxiety level = cancer. Too much luck involved no skill required what so ever. Started a pvp char joined a guild wooped on tricks like crazy the first day got 10,000 faction in less than three hours...couldn't ever do it again. Prognosis...game of luck.  Multiply the above by 20 since all 20 of my guildmates from uo experienced 99.9 perecent similar results. I'll show you the spread sheet later.

Now let's get to lineage - You basically get two attacks for 75 levels which equals 200 wow levels.  These types of games are usually better in the east where people think less on there own and more collectively. I.e. my suffering is his gain and this is good because society improves where as us westerners think entirely differen.t

Originally posted by Winkyman

WoW PvP is skilless. The Rock, Paper, Scissors example makes sure of this. If you (class X) attack (Class Y) you'll win (if class Y == your class killer). That said, if (class Y) has T3 gear and you have T1 or less, your loose again. Its the FORCED GRIND I think most are talking about. I HAVE to PvE so that I can just compete in PvP. The fact that my guild rolled Horde and DID NOT GET PALLADINS or D0rf Preists with Fear ward and therefore nerfing our own PvE potential makes it all the worse.

WoW is, as an above poster said, all about the grind. And thats true. World PvP is more or less dead. So what do they do, put in cross server battlegroups. Now there is allways enough people to make the next BG (AkA Honor Grind zone) spawn. You have to grind items to grind PvP honor, grind grind grind grind. meh.

As for the whole, skill in PvP argument. Wow requires a lot of button mashing, they have not make the classes simple to play at all. From a technical standpoint its actually a fairly complicated game toplay. That said, IMO, complex character control is not skill. The use of tactics to win the 1 v 1 battles that exist are more akin to skill than deciding what button to mash. An example. In a more 'pure' PvP game, casters (mage for this example) are fodder. If a melee class gets near the caster he dies. (in WoW the casters have 'get out of jail free cards to negate this (PoM Polly, Frost Nova, Blink, in a more skillfull game they would require people to guard them so they can rain down holy terror on the enemy). The skill here is multifold. As a group, you have to fight the 1 v 1's, take out enemy healers/casters while protecting yours. Collsion detection makes this even more skill based. It requires group tactics in order to win. That said I feel that my group of 5 (or 6 or 8 depending on game) is better than most. In WoW, its almost purely zerg on zerg, honor grinding, random PuG people etc. So, go play WSG you'd say!. We actually did that. And after going I would honestly say 500-50, it A got old and B lost its allure. AB was fun as I could organize 15 of us to Play together, and we also did well here, prolly 300 or 400 to mebbe 40 or 50 losses. But that got old too. AV.... we do Preform AV's but the map just makes it too hard, and waiting around for a queue when I can get all 40 of my people in sucks. I yearn (as does most of my guild) for Emain Macha again.

Im not knocking WoW PvP, hey if you did the Naxx grind to get 9/9 Naxx gear, I guess, you deserve something for it. What i've found after 20 years of gaming (ya im old) is that PvP'ers make the absolute WORST PvE'ers.

Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by roadwarriors
Once again I consolidate my position and make the outrageous claim that WOW is the closest thing to perfection any of you ahve ever experienced in terms of a mmorpg......i say close because it is lacking in certain areas but PVE wise it's the best...pvp second and all the rest is pish posh...

To you.

TO YOU.

You are forgetting that not everyone likes meaningless, zero risk PVP experiences which outcomes are mainly dictated by your grinding ability (read equipment, read level).

Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by rohbshop

you really dont know much since stunlocks arent game over and never were.  mebbe you needed to learn how to play your class better...

mebbe he does
mebbe he doesn't
mebbe fighting an opponent that can't fight back for more than half the fight isn't a good example of 'player skill'

mebbe if stunlock was game over and nobody could fight back from it everyone would roll rogues and there would be 11000000 rogues and none of every other class.

thank god alot of the stuff people believe about wow here are either lies or misconceptions from nubs

Originally posted by roadwarriors
WOW is the closest thing to perfection any of you ahve ever experienced in terms of a mmorpg