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Originally posted by GRIMACHU
Events that have changed the world

1. Various events revealing lore.
2. Tryton's departure for the Prime Roots.
3. Semi-factional fighting over Trytonist agents revealing info about Jena.
4. A vote to determine the direction of the Fyrosian senate.
5. A vote to determine the next Tryker leader and their stance.
6. Invasion events.
7. The opening of the passageway between Zorai and Fyros.
8. The Temple War.

Others that I've likely missed due to occasionally being busy.

The events are not always run on saturdays and sometimes there are lead-in smaller events run in the days and weeks leading up to the major event.

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Let's see ....

1. Okay, this isn't bad, I'll give you that.

2. What exactly did this affect? Did certain NPCs disappear with this, possibly removing the ability to do something in-game (ie. quests, faction gain, buying items)?

3. Okay, this sounds like Lore again. Not bad.

4 & 5. This sounds about as fun as real voting. Again, did this affect anything? NPC prices, available missions, faction reputations, NPC/creature spawns, etc? If it didn't change anything, this is like voting in a new government in RL, only to have them do exactly the same thing as the last one.

6. Okay, now you're actually talking about something interesting. With noticable affects on the gameworld. A similar event happened in SWG way-back-when, when Imperial troops were spawned and attacked a known Rebel town. Everyone I talked to really enjoyed things like this.

7. Here you go, another event that /actually/ changed something. But what I'm wondering is: Is it always possible for the players to affect the outcome of this? ie. On one server the players manage to open the way, and on another they fail? Cause if it all ends up the same, that doesn't count as affecting the gameworld. There has to be more than one outcome for the players otherwise it's just masking the fact they are being "railroaded".

8. What exactly did this accomplish? Like I said before, did it affect the availability of factional items/missions/etc.?

You've stated a bunch of events, but unless they've changed the gameworld in some recognizable sense, it's not the same as tabletop. If nothing's changed a player who played at launch could come back now and not find anything different. Game mechanic changes and the addition of PvP doesn't count, as they were added by Nevrax, and weren't affected by players at all.

I'd really like to hear how these events shaped the world of Atys, in concrete terms. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, if I am. But what you've said so far hasn't proved that at all. Dynamic content does not mean temporary static content, ie. content that lasts for a set period of time. Dynamic content is content that persists until some point where the actions (or inactions) of the players changes it. So far, I haven't seen any of this in MMOs.

Your turn.

Originally posted by RevMrBlack

 

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6. Invasion events.
7. The opening of the passageway between Zorai and Fyros.
8. The Temple War.

Others that I've likely missed due to occasionally being busy.

The events are not always run on saturdays and sometimes there are lead-in smaller events run in the days and weeks leading up to the major event.

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Let's see ....

2. What exactly did this affect? Did certain NPCs disappear with this, possibly removing the ability to do something in-game (ie. quests, faction gain, buying items)?

Well, I regard these as negative effects to the game overall, but they are effects. It sucked credibility and direction away from the neutral 'faction' and placed a very important (almost another 'god') NPC in limbo. Since then the influence of the NPC guild of that individual has been noticably less though there may be some kind of payoff in the future, we don't know. Some of this is on trust as I've seen that future events often seem to be influenced by prior events.

I think it's important to note that far reaching effects on the gameworld aren't necessarily dependent upon a hard, in game effect (such as missing NPCs) in order to have a long running effect.

4 & 5. This sounds about as fun as real voting. Again, did this affect anything? NPC prices, available missions, faction reputations, NPC/creature spawns, etc? If it didn't change anything, this is like voting in a new government in RL, only to have them do exactly the same thing as the last one.

See above. Again it's hard to tell but a 'dove' was elected to the senate in Fyros and this has probably resulted in less incendiery rhetoric coming from the Fyros leaders as compared to if the other candidate (a hawk) had won.

Similarly the candidates in Tryker covered a spectrum and the winner seems to refect Tryker nationalism and independence that is/was reflected in the Tryker players. Given that some players do operate and RP according to what these leaders say and do, and that events may have been different according to which leaders got these positions, yes I'd say it had an effect.

7. Here you go, another event that /actually/ changed something. But what I'm wondering is: Is it always possible for the players to affect the outcome of this? ie. On one server the players manage to open the way, and on another they fail? Cause if it all ends up the same, that doesn't count as affecting the gameworld. There has to be more than one outcome for the players otherwise it's just masking the fact they are being "railroaded".

The servers have diverged in various ways, like the election results and like the temple war (see below). Every server managed to open the passageway though. The divergence in other events suggests that this could have taken a different route. Server divergence hasn't lived up to initial promise, but it is there.

8. What exactly did this accomplish? Like I said before, did it affect the availability of factional items/missions/etc.?

It affected whether a temple (and the lore available at it) were available in each land, along with temple guards and reward givers. Whether the temples will do anything else in the future remains to be seen.

I'd really like to hear how these events shaped the world of Atys, in concrete terms. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, if I am. But what you've said so far hasn't proved that at all. Dynamic content does not mean temporary static content, ie. content that lasts for a set period of time. Dynamic content is content that persists until some point where the actions (or inactions) of the players changes it. So far, I haven't seen any of this in MMOs.

See above.

They could do more, but it is there.

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Originally posted by GRIMACHU
I think it's important to note that far reaching effects on the gameworld aren't necessarily dependent upon a hard, in game effect (such as missing NPCs) in order to have a long running effect.

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The servers have diverged in various ways, like the election results and like the temple war (see below). Every server managed to open the passageway though. The divergence in other events suggests that this could have taken a different route. Server divergence hasn't lived up to initial promise, but it is there.

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Example: Server A voted Bob in. Server B voted for Dave. If nothing is affected, who the @&$%# cares?

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It affected whether a temple (and the lore available at it) were available in each land, along with temple guards and reward givers. Whether the temples will do anything else in the future remains to be seen.

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You have shown that some of the events can shape the game, but it seems that it's mostly limited to how the players decide to act on the changes. Now, for you, it seems that this is enough to say the events shape the world. I, on the other hand, can't say this is true at all. Some events have, but most of those you mentioned have done nothing to make a visible impact on the game.

And lastly,

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Well, I regard these as negative effects to the game overall, but they are effects.

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I'm sure we could go on for ages on this. But I'm going to stop here.
Feel free to respond though.

Originally posted by RevMrBlack

 

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Originally posted by GRIMACHU
You left yourself open to it.

 

Look.

MMORPGs stem from RPG roots, they've forgotten a lot of what made/makes tabletop RPGs great and substituted things contrary to the model that makes them a less satisfying experience but one of the things that crosses the boundary is the satisfaction of making your own way in whatever world has been created, putting your own spin on it. That's more important than what power you get at level 62 or what the optimum warrior 'build' is. If you don't get that, you've missed the point of the 'RPG' bit. You get out what you put in, if you'd rather be spoonfed there's plenty of options but don't come in slagging or you'll get slapped.

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Grim, I don't know why you seem to have a problem with anyone who says Ryzom is lacking content. It's true. It lacks what most games have, ie. "traditional content". I know there is a strong RP aspect in Ryzom, and that's good (I'm actually a RPer in MMOs), but stop comparing it to tabletop RPGs. They are completely different formats. I've played (and RPed in) lots of MMOs and lots of tabletop so I think I can tell the difference.

In Ryzom (or any MMO even) there's no GM to craft the world around your group of characters. (I know you'll say the Ring is like the GM, but it's barely even usable at this point so it doesn't count) There's usually little to no impact on the MMO gameworld, where in tabletop you can affect everything (with GM permission). In Ryzom there's nothing more than generic, repeatable missions, where in tabletop the GM can have any number of things happen, hooking you into scenarios, or even letting you go explore the ruins the local townsfolk spoke of.

MMOs are NOT like tabletop. They share minor similarities, that's it. And Ryzom is no different. Sure you can do whatever you want, but how is that like a tabletop RPG? When was the last time the characters went hunting for wolves/spiders/dragons/etc. so that they could make a piece of armour or craft a sword? Cause that's all I there seems to do in Ryzom. Different creatures, but the same thing nonetheless.

The only game out there that is even close to tabletop is NWN. And that requires a good DM (or multiple DMs, like in a PW) to make it work. Only then can they make the players feel like their characters are making a impact on the gameworld. Perhaps once the Ryzom Ring allows people to host scenarios without having to be online it'll be a closer approximation of tabletop. But then, it'll still be an /approximation/.

Tabletop is dynamic. MMOs are static. There's no way you can compare the two.

Flame on!

Forget Grimachu and his opinion and dont waste your time on his posts.. he loves to post all day and trys to defend his religion. Here or on the Ryzom Forums doesnt matter...

Forget Grimachu and his opinion and dont waste your time on his posts.. he loves to post all day and trys to defend his religion. Here or on the Ryzom Forums doesnt matter...

Originally posted by Vanguarde
This game sucks compare to other MMOrpg out there. Why is this still alive is beyond me.

Originally posted by Beery
Basically, if you like combat or crafting, and if you don't mind a fairly hefty grind, this is probably the best game out there.  BUT if you need a bit more in terms of roleplaying and social gameplay, avoid this game like the plague.

I notice that the one trolling and throwing around accusations (without any quotes or links to any supposed accusations of mine) is you. 

If I hate the game, why do I say it's the best game for crafting and combat?  If I hate the game it seems rather a counterproductive thing to say.

By the way, 'illiterate' is not spelled the way you spelled it (it only has one 'A').  Similarly, you missed the 'O' in 'ridiculous'.  Could it perhaps be that, if I called someone illiterate, the accusation had some merit? ;)

Enough said.

Originally posted by Beery

I notice that the one trolling and throwing around accusations (without any quotes or links to any supposed accusations of mine) is you. 

If I hate the game, why do I say it's the best game for crafting and combat?  If I hate the game it seems rather a counterproductive thing to say.

Enough said.

Again, accusations and ad hominem attacks without a hint of a source or a quote.  How brave of you to engage in such bullying.  I'm sure you must be much feared in the schoolyard.  Sadly, on an internet forum it's hard to spot a coward or a liar, but happily it's easier to defend against them.

Not surprisingly, you both graduate to my blocked members list.  I wonder, since you think I'm 'notorious', why I'm not on yours?  Could it be that you're just a troll who enjoys flaming folks like me who hold a different viewpoint than yours?  It seems so.

Many others here have noted a tendency of the Ryzom fanboys to blindly lash out at anyone who voices any level of criticism of the game.  Let's get one thing clear - attacking players doesn't help the game, and stifling criticism doesn't help the game either.  In fact stifling critical thought is the worst thing anyone can do for the health of a game.  You don't help a person to stay healthy by ignoring symptoms of disease and insisting that the patient is perfectly fine.  In fact that's the quickest way to kill someone.  It's the same with a game.  Blind praise is a game's worst enemy.

Originally posted by Beery
Again, accusations and ad hominem attacks without a hint of a source or a quote.  How brave of you to engage in such bullying.  I'm sure you must be much feared in the schoolyard.  Luckily, on an internet forum it's easier to spot a coward or a liar.

I recently downloaded the free trial of ryzom. Although you can only lvl up in fighting, magic, harvesting, and crafting, each branches off into hundreds of different skills. The players were unexpectedly nice, unlike many of the ryzom players who leave posts on this website. People were eager to help and teach, although i wouldn't recomend cursing on the public chat channels (i recieved several messeages to stop =p). The ruins of silan "island" thing is full of quests if you are the kind who enjoys doing what your told. If you're more of the independent type, you don't have to follow the quests to be just as good as eveyone else. And if you're the creative type, there's an "editor" option, where you create your own mini-map and scenarios. I thought the game was great, but i don't think its worth paying $15.00 a month for the normal version.  have fun and enjoy!

Originally posted by irish_monk

The ruins of silan "island" thing is full of quests if you are the kind who enjoys doing what your told...

Originally posted by GRIMACHU

Originally posted by Beery
Again, accusations and ad hominem attacks without a hint of a source or a quote.  How brave of you to engage in such bullying.  I'm sure you must be much feared in the schoolyard.  Luckily, on an internet forum it's easier to spot a coward or a liar.

Or a blowhard refusing to take responsibility for their actions.

Behold...

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25221

My oh my.. i came here to get some information about this game because i was interested in becoming a payed member after enjoying the trial. But this Grim guy makes me so..so sad.

Dude.. cool down. It's not like people abused your mother. it's a video game for fu*** sake. Whats wrong with you? i have some questions for you..

How old are you?, When was the last time you went out of your room?, Do you have a job?  because you really really creep me out for some reason.

No sane person would defend a bloody game like this.. damn some people can be really scary. THERE IS LIFE OUTSIDE THIS WORLD MADE OF PIXEL!!