Originally posted by DrowNoble

Come to think of if there is a pen & paper rpg I'm surprised never gets mentioned as an MMOG:  Shadowrun 

Your basic elf mage can tac nuke a monster or choose to whip out his Ares Predator II heavy pistol and blow its frikkin head off instead. 

Well, according to the chart here at  http://www.mmogchart.com/  two-thirds of the most subscribed mmorpg's are not high fantasy, so I don't know what to make of the article posted. Was this written around the time UO was launched? Heh those those “greedy” developers!...

And yes I'm ignoring WoW taking the market here, I'm referring to the market as a whole and counting in the fact that WoW throws off statistics at a glance. Other genres do seem to standing on their own.

The Emperor Commands EA/Mythic to submit to his supream authority and develop Warhammer 40k else the Black Templars will start a crusade on their headquarters.

Everquest One had it right till SOE started nerfing things and endless expansions till left of empty zones.

The SOE Progression was great... too bad it progressed. Classic EQ thread had like 1500 posts and SOE

deleted the thread. Nevermind what customers want full steam ahead...

Sometimes things don't need fixin'.

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When will the first real step forward in MMOs step forward and bring us a mainstream title that doesn't have elves or magic swords?

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Tabula Rasa - Closed beta soon - by Richard Gariott (Ultima, Ultima Online), published by NCSoft. You guys really should check out your own web site.

Other sci-fi in development - Star Trek Online, Star Gate Worlds, Huxley and I believe Fallen Earth.

And to quote MMORPGCHART.com on their impression of Tabula Rasa from E3 last year.

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After a series of delays, it looks as though the re-tooled Tabula Rasa will finally make it to market this year, and boy did I like what I saw – and so did nearly everyone else I talked to. Tabula Rasa was not head and shoulders above all the other new MMOGs at E3; there were good reasons to pick other games that were prettier, or had more innovative game play, or had the power of a strong license behind them. But it seemed like Tabula Rasa was the one game being shown that was the most fun to play right now, and the one everyone was looking forward to trying once it comes out. Tabula Rasa no longer has Imperator as potential competition, which means the futuristic sci-fi shooter/RPG will have the genre almost entirely to itself. Huxley has a similar appeal, but is more skill-based and PvP-focused; Tabula Rasa is RPG-based and PvE-centric. When playing missions in the game, there’s always a dynamic battle happening around your character; you really get the feeling that you’re in the middle of an interplanetary war. NCSoft is also making the game easy for the casual player to enjoy – solo play is supported, and as their characters progress, players will be able to experiment with new professions while still preserving their existing character’s level; they won’t have to “re-roll” an entirely new character and spend weeks leveling up all over again just to try something different. I was also impressed with the game’s easy to use interface and integrated voice chat functionality. The bottom line is simple: Tabula Rasa is a fun, refreshing change from the glut of fantasy-based MMORPGs, and if that’s not enough for you, it’s got Richard Garriott behind it. What more could you ask for?

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So maybe instead of debating the lack of non fantasy games coming out - mmorpg.com could actually write some articles on the ones in development, coming out soon.

Originally posted by SUMB44
Am I the only one who thinks that the 'traditional' mmorpg fantasy (dragons, dwarfs, medieval armor, magic, etc.) is a bit overplayed and the market just a bit saturated?  I think it's easier for developers and publishing houses to market fantasy games because there is a large, established industry, clientelle and many pre-existing storylines and 'lore' to build off; some with notable market success (e.g., Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer). 

Personally I feel that the popularity of this 'traditional' fantasy genre breeds successive generations of increasingly similar mmorpg's; drives innovation from the market and is generally bad for the mmo/mmorpg industry and consumers.

Games like Eve Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea, Voyage Century (PotBS's little brother), Silk Road and the like offer welcome departures from the RPG norm. 

Originally posted by Daywolf

Well, according to the chart here at  http://www.mmogchart.com/  two-thirds of the most subscribed mmorpg's are not high fantasy, so I don't know what to make of the article posted. Was this written around the time UO was launched? Heh those those “greedy” developers!...

 

And yes I'm ignoring WoW taking the market here, I'm referring to the market as a whole and counting in the fact that WoW throws off statistics at a glance. Other genres do seem to standing on their own.

Originally posted by WarWolf95

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Come to think of if there is a pen & paper rpg I'm surprised never gets mentioned as an MMOG:  Shadowrun 

Your basic elf mage can tac nuke a monster or choose to whip out his Ares Predator II heavy pistol and blow its frikkin head off instead. 

Two things.  First, Shadowrun is being made not as a MMORPG but as a RPG with FPS elements.  Second, I play CoX and really prefer the general feel of it to the feel of WoW or Archlord or any of that stuff.  It somehow seemed like WoW was an endless grind and I was thinking in CoX.

Having been a hardcore Eve -Online player for years. I am just now discovering how much fun Wow is.

The reason so many devs copy Wow is because Wow is so successfull. I believe the reason Wow is so succesfull is because it's fun and it works!

I've been playing Eve for over three years and it's still as buggy as when it started.  I'm now at level 44 in Wow and haven't encountered a bug yet.

I never would try Wow because of the screen shots. The game just looks so silly, and in many ways it is, but it's also part of it's charm.

I think to many mmo's take themselves to seriously.

Blizzard figured it out. It's a game, it should be fun!

It doesn't matter what the genre is as long as it's fun.

Originally posted by Amorphism

Originally posted by Daywolf

Well, according to the chart here at  http://www.mmogchart.com/  two-thirds of the most subscribed mmorpg's are not high fantasy, so I don't know what to make of the article posted. Was this written around the time UO was launched? Heh those those “greedy” developers!...

 

And yes I'm ignoring WoW taking the market here, I'm referring to the market as a whole and counting in the fact that WoW throws off statistics at a glance. Other genres do seem to standing on their own.

I urge you to go straight to the excel tables at Mmochart - - > Link
And see by yourself the tab called Sheet 3. You'll notice the percentage for Fantasy based MMOs is *huge*.
There's much more info in that excel file to prove without a question that fantasy is the choice of 9 from 10 game companies, even
if you don't include WoW (which is in my opinion a very absurd way of defining a trend).

I'm speaking of the top percentile that people like. There will still be plenty of lower ranked games centered on high fantasy, but they are just far easier to make in many cases which results in a quicker development turnout and probable survivability in regards to quicker revenues earned.

If you look at the pie chart for all mmorpg genres, that is what I'm referring to with throwing off the statistics at a glance (first impression) since WoW takes ~60% of the overall market. That is just a single mmorpg though and many agree is fueled simply by marketing, not playability. From the top ranked or most subscribed games, one third of them are not high fantasy and a couple are probably only there because they are f2p.

Well if you look at the pie chart by game (and ignore wow) you will see that 84% of people playing MMORPG's are playing Fantasy MMORPG's.

So I think your research needs a bit more work.

And people get serious - if you were a developer or publisher wanting to make a MMORPG - would you ignore WOW and the people playing it? Ignoring WOW would you ignore the fact that over 80% of everyone else playing a MMORPG are playing a fantasy MMORPG?

That fantasy pie is a big pie, and those companies want a slice of that pie so of course they make a fantasy MMORPG.

Would you make another EVE? Why bother - EVE already has that market stitched up.

As for the sci-fi its easier to target a well known I.P eg Stargate , Star Trek, Star Wars with a existing target audience, so thats already done.

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

Well if you look at the pie chart by game (and ignore wow) you will see that 84% of people playing MMORPG's are playing Fantasy MMORPG's.

So I think your research needs a bit more work.

And people get serious - if you were a developer or publisher wanting to make a MMORPG - would you ignore WOW and the people playing it? Ignoring WOW would you ignore the fact that over 80% of everyone else playing a MMORPG are playing a fantasy MMORPG?

That fantasy pie is a big pie, and those companies want a slice of that pie so of course they make a fantasy MMORPG.

Would you make another EVE? Why bother - EVE already has that market stitched up.

As for the sci-fi its easier to target a well known I.P eg Stargate , Star Trek, Star Wars with a existing target audience, so thats already done.

Again, I am referring to the top percentile. Among the top games that have the most subscriptions, 33% are not high fantasy. As I stated, there are a lot of high fantasy games because they are easy to make for the most part. There are a lot of issues regarding this that I'd rather not get into here.

As for the over all subscriber base pie chart, it is dominated by a single game, this is not the issue or the discussion of the mmorpg article, it was more so referring to the volume of other games in contrast to high fantasy. But if we look at the genre categories of the most popular games, it is not as one sided in favor of high fantasy as the article portrays. The only one sidedness is the current craze with a single game.

No one is overlooking anything, if it were the topic than why not call it “Why does WoW have so many subscribers?” but WoW still only counts as one game.

Maybe you could name the top 33% of games that arent fantasy so we all are talking about the same thing. As I have no idea what games you mean.

But it still doesnt change the fact that aside from WOW 84% of players are playing Fantasy MMORPGs. If we include WOW its like what 90+%.

Which is why developers have a hard time getting publishers to fund a non-fantasy game, as the western market are all playing fantasy.

So what's the difference between Sci-fi and Fantasy genre's anyways? I mean, when you get right down to it, it's all some made up fantastical world with races other than human and weird weapons. Hey, sci-fi is a type of fantasy when you get right down to it.

Of course I realize this is more a "high fantasy" vs. Sci-fi debate... but I think it might be a good idea for a company to try out some new fantasy-genre's. Someone mentioned steam-punk or werewolves and vampires styled. I'm sure if done really well (seems hard for most companies to do), and with the right IP helping them along, they'd have plenty of fans.