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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Women Gamers and The Power of the Feminine

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110 posts found
  Keridwan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/06
Posts: 123

"Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO"

 
OP  1/03/07 4:19:06 AM#1



Femmes Fatales


There has been much discussion in these forums about gender and women and girl gamers. Inevitably there have been some very considered and constructive views, and there have naturally been immature, narrow and silly comments. There is, however, an alternative view that has been expressed in the activities of a "feminine only" group called Femmes Fatales who played Dark Age of Camelot for some five years, and later moved to World of Warcraft, GuildWars and Lineage 2. Femmes Fatales adopted a radically different perspective on gaming values. We wanted to emphasize the "power of the feminine" in MMOs and made no apologies for being separatist and exclusive in this respect. We felt that men as well as women are able to express and appreciate these qualities and in turn adopted an "anti feminist" stance.

Please see the following Blog entry for a brief discussion

http://keridwanthompson.spaces.live.com/

Femmes Fatales will be relocating to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and eventually Age of Conan and Warhammer in 2007. Our web site is currently under going an overhaul, details to be published later.

Please note that our policy is "feminine" or if you prefer "female only" characters.






  jezvin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 830

1/03/07 4:32:30 AM#2
Do you let people play male chars?
just wondering

at least we don't have to assume a guy on the other end for these gals


or do we
jk



any way good luck with your guild.

-------------------------------------------------
Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%

EKSA
-------------------------------------------------

  War_Dancer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/06
Posts: 936

1/03/07 4:38:51 AM#3
Originally posted by jezvin
Do you let people play male chars?
just wondering

at least we don't have to assume a guy on the other end for these gals


or do we
jk



any way good luck with your guild.

Which could be a pity, the way some people ask I've been tempted to lie and claim I'm a guy in real life

  Rikimaru_X

Guru

Joined: 6/06/04
Posts: 11957

Facts about Riki: I'm a ninja & one of the sexiest guys on this damn site.

1/03/07 5:07:05 AM#4
I don't know. Why not have the discussion right here, rather than just going to look at it though a blog. Do you want a discussion or are you just advertising this? If you want the discussion, bring it on, but talking about the discussion of females playing video games then going about a guild/clan of females who play mmorpgs...it just seems like an Ad. I'll view the blog tomorrow. I was looking forward to the discussion in here.

-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
|
RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

  Keridwan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/06
Posts: 123

"Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO"

 
OP  1/03/07 5:17:30 AM#5
Originally posted by Rikimaru_X
I don't know. Why not have the discussion right here, rather than just going to look at it though a blog. Do you want a discussion or are you just advertising this? If you want the discussion, bring it on, but talking about the discussion of females playing video games then going about a guild/clan of females who play mmorpgs...it just seems like an Ad. I'll view the blog tomorrow. I was looking forward to the discussion in here.

Hello Rikimaru, thanks for your reply. I was tempted to go into the details here and as you suggest open the debate with some key arguments. However, the full discussion on the blog is long and a bit technical, so I decided to provide a brief overview here and give those interested a link to the fuller discussion. In the Blog we define what we mean by "the feminine". I am hoping that those who read the Blog will either message me or include some of the (more controversial) claims here. I am sorry if it appears like an AD it wasn't intended that way.

If I may offer a small corrective Rikimaru, this is not really a discussion about "females playing video games" it is more about distinctions between feminine and masculine MMO players and how this maps out in guilds, character development and design and how gamers develop an on-line identity or role.

  Asamof

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 740

1/03/07 5:24:14 AM#6
Why do you feel the need to create barriers between sexes in online games that revolve around the social aspect?

Well, hopefully you don't act like the fragdolls and scream out "U GOT KILLD BY A GUUUUUUUUUUURL!!11" everytime you kill a male avatar...
  War_Dancer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/06
Posts: 936

1/03/07 5:53:22 AM#7
Originally posted by Asamof
Why do you feel the need to create barriers between sexes in online games that revolve around the social aspect?

Well, hopefully you don't act like the fragdolls and scream out "U GOT KILLD BY A GUUUUUUUUUUURL!!11" everytime you kill a male avatar...

Well just speaking as a grrl gamer and not as a member of the femme fatales (never been a member) but women only guilds for me wouldn't be about barriers. They're about creating a comfortible atmosphere and getting away from the attitude that some guys have towards women and after all it doesn't stop the members of the guild interacting with men outside of the guild.

I fully hope they don't go "U GOT KILLD BY A GUUUUUUURL!!11" too though

 

  Cymdai

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/05
Posts: 1092

It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.

1/03/07 6:07:49 AM#8
While I'm familiar with Femmes Fatales, I for one am not a large fan of drawing lines between people.

This includes race, gender, or religion. These are things best kept out-of-game in my honest opinion, and I for one believe the anonymity associated with virtual reality one of MMORPG's biggest blessings. After all, MMORPG's are one of the few places where intelligence, looks, financial status, and personal background are completely ignored, and I support this! Players should be judged for their in-game abilities and behavior, not external factors. All of this is merely my opinion of course.

Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  buddhabeads

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 118

1/03/07 6:16:40 AM#9
Hey Keridwan

This is a real;ly really interesting post, im really curious about this, unfortunately i could not open the msn space link you have provided, but i would very like to be in contact with you and debate this issue further.

That aside, i have recently written a brief comment on how Asian MMOs are making online gaming more accessible to female gamers and maybe not enpowering them, but certainly bringing them to an equal level.

I have studied femmme fatale theories in film studies and this cerrtainly resonate with some feminist theories i have researched. I'ts no real secret that Western gaming have a 'masculine gaze' There is a clear sex bias involved, (buff heroe and sexy females) and in a way it confronts female gamers with a catch-21. If they play male characters, isn't that subscribing to the male gaze by 'wanting to roleplay a male character' while playing female character on hand also does not escape the male gaze by accomendating to the svelte sexy young female stereotype.

(Maybe should just ignored all that theory rant, maybe you guys just want some 'gemme fatale' PK action)

For a more liberating, non sexist game try Second Life
  Keridwan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/06
Posts: 123

"Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO"

 
OP  1/03/07 6:40:54 AM#10
Originally posted by buddhabeads
Hey Keridwan

This is a real;ly really interesting post, im really curious about this, unfortunately i could not open the msn space link you have provided, but i would very like to be in contact with you and debate this issue further.




Hello Buddhabeads, thanks for the reply. This is certainly the kind of response I was hoping for and will contact you to discuss further. Have to dash now, but will respond to your comments laterz.

You can now access the msn space, sorry but I forgot the syndicalise it for open access. It should be straightforwards now.


The Will to Power is a frugal resource, you don't need to think about it when your walking ....
  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14174

1/03/07 7:45:38 AM#11
I found this guild to be so extremely rediculous, that I'm pretty sure a part of me just died laughing out loud. Not because of the rediculous rule to exclude male avatars, but because you guys focus on things that should not be the main focus of MMORPG gaming.

"First and foremost we wanted to convey a strong relationship between beauty and the virtual body in on-line gaming, We were not interested in ugliness. The avatars we designed and developed in Femmes Fatales mirrored this interest. In fact it is probably true to say that the most ardent feminist is very likely to be an ugly woman. These women resent beautiful women. So how does the beauty of a body detach that body from the contentment of our practical, expressive, and sexual relations and make of that body an object of excessive passions? How does this manifest itself in the world of MMOs? Why and how does beauty organize the body, linking up forms, colors, and movements into a snare for our lusts? Bataille focuses exclusively on the feminine body, inasmuch as it is the supremely erotic object:"

Yes, lets totally concentrate on the "strong relationship" between, ahum, Beauty and pixels, because if there is anything that is important in an mmorpg world, then its that!

and lets not leave out the so called conclussion.

"
So Femmes Fatales as an expression of the sublime feminine as "will to power", shall continue to mesmerize, seduce, tease and provoke. And more than anything else we shall continue to use our power to be wicked, desirable and feminine. MMOs provide us a perfect context to deploy and sustain our ambitions.".

Forgive me for my language, but you DO realize it is a GAME right? Seduce? Tease? Tell you what, get away from your computer and go do that in real life. Its people like you that makes me tell parents in real life to wait untill their children are at a higher age before starting the mmorpg genre. Don't you have anything better to do then to virtually "seduce" people? If your "ambition" is to virtually whore yourself out, then I think you should get your priorities straigth.


  Cymdai

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/05
Posts: 1092

It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.

1/03/07 7:57:00 AM#12
Gameloading, I thoroughly agree.

But look on the brightside, for every guild like this, where women seek to exploit guys in video games, there's at least 3 other guys already acting like women.

I can't think of a guild I've been in where at least 1 male player didn't pretend he was a female, solely to get items.

Congrats, femmes fatales, but you guys are a few years behind the rest of the MMO world.

Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  PeterRJG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/03
Posts: 1024

1/03/07 8:15:45 AM#13

If I was twenty years younger, I could empathise with what's being said in this thread - sentiments and the like. But I can't. I've out-grown such antics.

Time for some of you to out-grow them too.

  Hadesprime

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/04
Posts: 303

1/03/07 8:23:48 AM#14
females and gaming

a totally over rated issue

Women gamers are no different than men and should not be treated as such. The thing is so many guys are hardup for action in real life they think seeing a female gamer is ooh ahhh and a chance for cyber ;)

Who cares its all gamers and this like many other issues is an over bloated floating pig.
  buddhabeads

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 118

1/03/07 9:04:15 AM#15
Originally posted by Gameloading
I found this guild to be so extremely rediculous, that I'm pretty sure a part of me just died laughing out loud. Not because of the rediculous rule to exclude male avatars, but because you guys focus on things that should not be the main focus of MMORPG gaming.

"First and foremost we wanted to convey a strong relationship between beauty and the virtual body in on-line gaming, We were not interested in ugliness. The avatars we designed and developed in Femmes Fatales mirrored this interest. In fact it is probably true to say that the most ardent feminist is very likely to be an ugly woman. These women resent beautiful women. So how does the beauty of a body detach that body from the contentment of our practical, expressive, and sexual relations and make of that body an object of excessive passions? How does this manifest itself in the world of MMOs? Why and how does beauty organize the body, linking up forms, colors, and movements into a snare for our lusts? Bataille focuses exclusively on the feminine body, inasmuch as it is the supremely erotic object:"

Yes, lets totally concentrate on the "strong relationship" between, ahum, Beauty and pixels, because if there is anything that is important in an mmorpg world, then its that!

and lets not leave out the so called conclussion.

"
So Femmes Fatales as an expression of the sublime feminine as "will to power", shall continue to mesmerize, seduce, tease and provoke. And more than anything else we shall continue to use our power to be wicked, desirable and feminine. MMOs provide us a perfect context to deploy and sustain our ambitions.".

Forgive me for my language, but you DO realize it is a GAME right? Seduce? Tease? Tell you what, get away from your computer and go do that in real life. Its people like you that makes me tell parents in real life to wait untill their children are at a higher age before starting the mmorpg genre. Don't you have anything better to do then to virtually "seduce" people? If your "ambition" is to virtually whore yourself out, then I think you should get your priorities straigth.


Dont bother with this guy. It's quite obvious that he does not know what hes talking about, and is completely out of context. Doubt he'll ever get it.

  Apocalyptica

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 489

Reality? What is that? Where can I download it?

1/03/07 9:14:52 AM#16
Originally posted by Hadesprime
females and gaming

a totally over rated issue

Women gamers are no different than men and should not be treated as such. The thing is so many guys are hardup for action in real life they think seeing a female gamer is ooh ahhh and a chance for cyber ;)

Who cares its all gamers and this like many other issues is an over bloated floating pig.

Indeed, I totaly agree with you there. It totaly does not matter I find if you are a boy or girl gamer. I am female and realy do not give a toss if peeps I am playing with are male or female so long they are friendly and respectufull and one can have loads of fun doing pvm or what not together.
Some women make me think of George Orwells Animal Farm...just substitute the pigs for women. You know, all animals are equal, but ....

------------------------------------------------------
Do I ever sleep?

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14174

1/03/07 9:25:56 AM#17
Originally posted by buddhabeads
Originally posted by Gameloading
I found this guild to be so extremely rediculous, that I'm pretty sure a part of me just died laughing out loud. Not because of the rediculous rule to exclude male avatars, but because you guys focus on things that should not be the main focus of MMORPG gaming.

"First and foremost we wanted to convey a strong relationship between beauty and the virtual body in on-line gaming, We were not interested in ugliness. The avatars we designed and developed in Femmes Fatales mirrored this interest. In fact it is probably true to say that the most ardent feminist is very likely to be an ugly woman. These women resent beautiful women. So how does the beauty of a body detach that body from the contentment of our practical, expressive, and sexual relations and make of that body an object of excessive passions? How does this manifest itself in the world of MMOs? Why and how does beauty organize the body, linking up forms, colors, and movements into a snare for our lusts? Bataille focuses exclusively on the feminine body, inasmuch as it is the supremely erotic object:"

Yes, lets totally concentrate on the "strong relationship" between, ahum, Beauty and pixels, because if there is anything that is important in an mmorpg world, then its that!

and lets not leave out the so called conclussion.

"
So Femmes Fatales as an expression of the sublime feminine as "will to power", shall continue to mesmerize, seduce, tease and provoke. And more than anything else we shall continue to use our power to be wicked, desirable and feminine. MMOs provide us a perfect context to deploy and sustain our ambitions.".

Forgive me for my language, but you DO realize it is a GAME right? Seduce? Tease? Tell you what, get away from your computer and go do that in real life. Its people like you that makes me tell parents in real life to wait untill their children are at a higher age before starting the mmorpg genre. Don't you have anything better to do then to virtually "seduce" people? If your "ambition" is to virtually whore yourself out, then I think you should get your priorities straigth.


Dont bother with this guy. It's quite obvious that he does not know what hes talking about, and is completely out of context. Doubt he'll ever get it.

Ofcourse I don't get it. I don't understand why people feel the need to "seduce" and "tease" people in a friggin GAME.
  cyanhide

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 139

fck that shit

1/03/07 9:30:30 AM#18
ey keridwan ,i played DAOC bout 2 years ago ,and i was in ur guild ,it was vrry small then ,i was the only male lol ^^
i'l be playing WAR end vangaurd perhaps ,maybe i'l join u again if i may ^^ had a realy good time with u girls ,u had a pretty good guild ,but i doubd they same people i played with in daoc are still in the guild

i was kirami a little necromancer ^^
  Keridwan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/06
Posts: 123

"Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO"

 
OP  1/03/07 9:36:30 AM#19



Originally posted by Gameloading

I found this guild to be so extremely rediculous, that I'm pretty sure a part of me just died laughing out loud. Not because of the rediculous rule to exclude male avatars, but because you guys focus on things that should not be the main focus of MMORPG gaming.

oh dear I am sorry to have stoked up such controversy  especially when the main focus should be just gaming.

poor Gameloading ... he's gone ballistic ... calm down dear ... if you're good, you can pop around later and I'll make you a nice cup of tea, offer you some lovely homemade cakes, with lashings of fresh cream ... maybe even find your gaming slippers for you eh?

Incidentally, nothing at all Freudian implied in my reply.  Pardon me but I simply can't resist ..... was that "rediculous" or ... red something else? Which "part of you died"? Do you need a nurse dear? Did you ever imagine that some things are said slightly tongue-in-cheek? I believe its called "irony".

never  mind I know already this is falling on deaf ears .... oh well ... trallalalalalalaa

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14174

1/03/07 9:41:43 AM#20
Originally posted by Keridwan



Originally posted by Gameloading

I found this guild to be so extremely rediculous, that I'm pretty sure a part of me just died laughing out loud. Not because of the rediculous rule to exclude male avatars, but because you guys focus on things that should not be the main focus of MMORPG gaming.

oh dear I am sorry to have stoked up such controversy  especially when the main focus should be just gaming.

poor Gameloading ... he's gone ballistic ... calm down dear ... if you're good, you can pop around later and I'll make you a nice cup of tea, offer you some lovely homemade cakes, with lashings of fresh cream ... maybe even find your gaming slippers for you eh?

Incidentally, nothing at all Freudian implied in my reply.  Pardon me but I simply can't resist ..... was that "rediculous" or ... red something else? Which "part of you died"? Do you need a nurse dear? Did you ever imagine that some things are said slightly tongue-in-cheek?


never  mind I know already this is falling on deaf ears .... oh well ... trallalalalalalaa

Nice troll reply, You didn't even comment on any of the arguements, instead, you added a load of sarcasm to try to make my post look rediculous. pretty sad. but oh well, Kind of what I expected of someone who seems to hold virtual fashion shows.
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