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Open Beta Discussion  » Asian MMORPGs VS Western MMORPGs

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28 posts found
  buddhabeads

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 118

 
OP  12/30/06 7:01:25 PM#1
Over the recent few years there has been an in flood of Korean/Chinese MMORPGs into the Western market, and a slow but steady flow the other way. Yet there is a clear cultural clash at play. In this thread i hope to answer some qualms about why Asian MMORPGs are made the way they are.

1) Grindfest
Personally i think grind is the sole killer to many if not most of all the potentially great MMORPGs. The grindfests restricts players from the exciting gameplay features with a time-based lock. In other words, a player must spend XXX amount of boring grind before the game becomes somewhat enjoyable and the XXX amount of time required does not weigh up to the eventual 'fun'. The finger can be solely at a production line of Korean MMORPGs for making grindfest the norm. The formula of a grind-wall where upon reaching a certain level, the amount of experience gained from kills exponentially drops in conjuntion with an exponential growth in the experience required to level up and in my view this feature has designed for the sole purpose of a turnoff for players. Yet, if grind is such a turnoff why do Asian game makers still persist with this forumla. The answer may be lie in the difference in approach on grinding between Western and Asian players.
For starters, the sheer number of gamers of MMORPGs in Asia is is without comparison in the West. Literally hundreds of thousands of people are logged onto one server at a time. Amongts these people there are surely those who do not mind and have the time to grind, and in turn they are rewarded with better weaponary and fancy armour. They are aslo idolized by the gaming community. The rest of the players, striving and competeting to reach that level of idolization reluctantly or willingly put with the grindfest for the eventual outcome.
Secondly, most Asian MMORPG grindfests are designed to be grounded in groups, with exp bonuses, so players evel up faster when leveling in groups. With the sheer number of players in servers, group play is a constant thing players of all levels. When viewed under this context, the grind becomes quite bearable. If you play the game and level up with a consitent group of online friends, then the grind at least is less tedious as solo play. Asian MMORPGs seems to view the grind as kind of substitute for MSN.
Thirdly, the grind has an outcome, apart from wearponary, armour and skills, many games have group dungeon systems and group PvP systems, so the all the grinding will enable access to these features.

2) Community
For some reason i find there's a much more feeling of community in Asian servers than Western servers. On some Western games in Western servers, there's practically no talk, each player is doing his/her own thing like a solo game, and most of the talk are laced with high-level game vocab and is not really newbie friendly.
This point is interconnected to the grindfest. Better community base makes grindfest less boring and more valid. One of the key differences is once agian down to a numbers issue. In Asia, more people play, so there are more servers and localised. In turn players play with other people from the same region that share the same culture, and similar lifestyles, and could literally be living right next to each other. In contrast the 'West' is almsot an imaginary space, since it's not space that can be localised. Clearly U.S. dominates this landscape, but there's also Canada, U.K. Australia, Carribean, South America, in someway these regions have no choice but to participate in the the conglomerate that is the 'West'.
Already there is a distinct cultural and geographic difference within the 'West', time zone diffences, language barriers and different lifestyle makes community building harder. Most of the time the conversation between a player from Poland is restricted to the game content and thus the feeling of community is disconnected.

3)Gameplay.
There are clear gameplay differences and approach to gameplay between Asian MMORPGs and Western ones. The gaming industry in Korea and China are relatively new in comparison to the rich history of gaming in the West and Japan. In most cases, Korean and Chinese gaming company have simply imitated gameplay features from successful Western games without much ingenuity. Diablo clones and WoW clones are the most obvious case studies. It's quite evident that gameplay of Asian MMORPGs lack behind their western counterpart. Runnning around killing the same looking mobs and gearing up with the same lookin gears is not really gameplay to me.
I think the core difference is the approach to gameplay. While Wetern game developers intend the gameplay to be deeply imbedded in the game content, mainly through storyline, i won't go further into details here but a simple example is the stotybased mssion system of Starcraft, where gameplay features (units) can only be accessed through following through with the story. In Asia however this aspect of the game seem to be overlooked for a mass-based, instant and immediately player gratification. In otherwords, the gameplay between lower levels and higher levels are not really much different. Kill low level mobs with low level weapons Vs killing high level mobs with high level weapons.
Another point of differences is that Asian MMORPGs have a tendency to think of gameplay as some skin-deep extra game features. For example when reading through gemeplay features of most Asian MMORPGS, they list features such as pet system, craft system, extensitve array of skills, fancy weapon and armour as key features. They game features do add an extra dimension to the gameplay, but as great as they sound, they only work on the surface of the gameplay and do not penetrate to the core. In otherwords they are nothing more than mere 'decorations' for the avatar. Sustaining a game on these features alone simply would not work, as the end result is everyone running around with the same armour, using the same skills with the same pets.
However these little quirky features do add an extra dimension to the gaming experience absent in the West, and is certainly an appealing feature for many gamers (mostly female) and should be congratulate upon. Other quirky features such as marriage, blacklist, most wanted, open stall etc that become a norm in Asian MMORPGs certainly departs from the orthodox Western approach to gaming. There are even games developed now purely on quirkiness (Ghost OL, Flyff) and these companies should be praised for making the game more metrosexual and more tailored towards female audiences.
They seem to reflect a cultural difference. While the West is still very much male dominated, the East especially amongst the young people is increaingly moving towards a rather sexually equal society. This social shift is clealy evident in Asian MMORPGs with their female-intended quirky features. In Asian female MMORPG palyers out number if not equal to the amount of male MMORPG players. But then again quirkiness alone does not make a great game.

4)Graphics
For so long Chinese games have been relegated due to technological issues with a 2D/2D isometric graphic interface. And as great as their gameplay maybe, the 2D interface is simply an turnoff for players so accustomed to 3D games. Games such as Conquerer OL and Eudomonia simply would not last.
Also much more Asian games are created in an anime-esque cute graphic style (Yulang, Rose, Maple Story, Seal), and as discussed above this is related to the social shift towards a less male-centric society. Personally i find this graphic approach can be juvenile, but that does not mean the game is not enjoyable or fun. In my view this approach has somewhat rivogorated MMORPGs and made the genre much more accessible to much more people, especially female players but this approach rather creates an opposite effect to an immersive, simularcrum direction most games are heading towards.

To conclude i think Western games will be huge success in Asia, with their emphasis on core storyline based gameplay which would be something totally new to Chinese MMORPGs. I think the GW series will be huge in China, and with the enormous market, more Western games will be heading East. While on otherhand Asian MMORPGs does provide a momentary escape from Western games with their fantasy landscape and quirky gameplay, but in the long term i don't think they will succeed if core gameplay is not significantly improved.
  Lazzaro

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 400

Anything easy ain''t worth a damn.

12/30/06 10:44:01 PM#2

You know by posting this that somebody will leave his opinion. Right?

  sheek80

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 164

12/30/06 10:45:38 PM#3
thank you for your post. i must personally say asian grind fests are more or less a way for western game players to have something to do until the next best western mmorpg comes out. that seems to be the bottom line of it. as for asian gamers, well, they are just used to the grind.

ps, i wish i knew why i loose stars and gain them. neone want to tell me so i dont have to look up the rules of mmorpg
  Vashner

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/06
Posts: 58

12/30/06 10:55:51 PM#4

Online gaming is brining people together.. culturally we have huge gap but online

we have fun and make friends.

 

Asian culture already is part of America and part of video game evolution. It's nothing new

and more customers the better. More products for us to play.

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14173

12/30/06 11:19:43 PM#5
While your post is very well written and detailed, I can not really say it is fully correct, and its completely biased, but you explain your standpoint well
a few examples:

The grindfest: you point out how Asian MMORPG's are all grindfests. Not once do you point out that Western MMORPG's involve just as much as grinding as Asian MMORPG's do. In that same part, you claim that Korean MMORPG's are grounded around group play. This is incorrect. Asian MMORPG's are often open to both solo AND group play. If you want to group, fine, you can do that. if you want to go solo, no problem. Naturaly, grouping has a slight advantage, but in general, I feel that solo and grouping is very well balanced, without games being BASED on grouping.

You also claim that Korean MMORPG's are "behind" western MMORPG's and that are imitated. This is incorrect. Only slightly were some features taken from the smash Hit Diablo, which lead to Lineage 1: the blood pledge. Lineage 1 was a smash hit, and even today, it is the 2nd most successfull mmorpg in the world in terms of subscribers. Obviously, many korean games started to copy Lineage. Yet the EXACT same thing happened in western mmorpg's.Except it used Everquest as an example.even today innovation is rare on both sides.

I also think the community in asian MMORPG's are more "involved" in the game for a complete diffrent reason then you suggested. I think its because of the nature of the game. Asian MMORPG's are usually around a certain event, and this (almost) always a pvp even. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, RF Online, ArchLord, Ragnarok Online,Rohan just to name a few. This usually brings in a lot of politics. Who is your enemy, who is your friend. This is a concept that doesn't seem to work for most western mmorpg players. They don't put themself "IN" the game, to be truly involved. It seems most western MMORPG players just want to log in and have some fun. No arguements, no travelling half a world just because a couple of guild members are having a pvp fight, no showing up at 1 AM just to battle that one guild. Not all that. Just log in, have fun, chat to guild members/party members, maybe do a dungeon. Just plain fun. During my experiences with asian MMORPG's, I found a complete diffrent experience. People are very involved in the game. Clan politics are going on everywhere, alliances are formed & broken, Castle's to take over, PVP fights are held over simple things like a mere hunting spot. things like that.

Its what I believe is the same reason why many korean MMORPG's are letting you fight the same mob for quite a long time. I mean, a quest system like in WoW is all nice and all, but its not going to result to PVP clashes, Because there is no hunting spot or no loot to fight over. Ever wondered why its actually quite rare to see a member of the oposing faction in WoW or Everquest 2?

In the gameplay part, you make mention that killing lower level mobs in Asian MMORPG's is the same as killing mobs at higher levels. While I completely agree with this, just how is this any diffrent from western MMORPG's? Because thats exactly what your doing in western games as well.

I also felt that you missed the key features. surely it has the standard advertisement, awesome weapons, skills, armor, blabla. You see that also with western MMORPG's. The diffrence is, this is actually what western MMORPG's are based on this. Korean MMORPG's are as well, but not completely. What they are really based on is explained above. Also, everyone running around in the same stuff is often done for a technical reason. Many Korean MMORPG's feature massive scale pvp fights. This is hardly avaible in any western mmorpg, hence it can afford more customization.

I also don't think western mmorpg's will do as well in the east as asian MMORPG's do in the west. The Chinese market is roughly the same as the korean one. Close to every western MMORPG that came to the east has closed down (except for UO japan). Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2. EVE and City of Heroes are doing mediocre, and I think its only a matter of time before EVE gets the plug in China. There has only been one western mmorpg that has been a smash hit in the east, and thats World of Warcraft, in fact, its doing better in the east then it does in the west in terms of playerbase. However, almost all eastern MMORPG's are doing great in the west.  close to every eastern MMORPG has been running around for years, and more are to come. Also, keep in mind that its the east, not the west, that is actually starting too try to apeal to both markets. Aion, for example, praises itself trying to fit to both markets. Ragnarok Online 2 has been given a complete new race that, according to Gravity, has been made for the western players. They also took the game into production for another year JUST so they could work a bit more on the graphics to apeal to both western and eastern players.
  Lazzaro

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 400

Anything easy ain''t worth a damn.

12/31/06 1:31:46 AM#6

I knew it.

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14173

12/31/06 9:27:34 AM#7
Originally posted by Lazzaro

I knew it.

Congratulations, nobody cares.
  Lazzaro

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 400

Anything easy ain''t worth a damn.

12/31/06 3:36:54 PM#8


Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Lazzaro

I knew it.


Congratulations, nobody cares.

Haha, somebody can't take a joke.

  Kaedric

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/06
Posts: 33

Live Life, Rock Hard

12/31/06 3:42:29 PM#9
Originally posted by Lazzaro

 


Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Lazzaro

 

I knew it.


Congratulations, nobody cares.

 

Haha, somebody can't take a joke.


uh oh, online tard fight.

live life, rock hard.

  Zerocool032

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 735

12/31/06 3:57:40 PM#10
Originally posted by Gameloading
While your post is very well written and detailed, I can not really say it is fully correct, and its completely biased, but you explain your standpoint well
a few examples:

The grindfest: you point out how Asian MMORPG's are all grindfests. Not once do you point out that Western MMORPG's involve just as much as grinding as Asian MMORPG's do. In that same part, you claim that Korean MMORPG's are grounded around group play. This is incorrect. Asian MMORPG's are often open to both solo AND group play. If you want to group, fine, you can do that. if you want to go solo, no problem. Naturaly, grouping has a slight advantage, but in general, I feel that solo and grouping is very well balanced, without games being BASED on grouping.

You also claim that Korean MMORPG's are "behind" western MMORPG's and that are imitated. This is incorrect. Only slightly were some features taken from the smash Hit Diablo, which lead to Lineage 1: the blood pledge. Lineage 1 was a smash hit, and even today, it is the 2nd most successfull mmorpg in the world in terms of subscribers. Obviously, many korean games started to copy Lineage. Yet the EXACT same thing happened in western mmorpg's.Except it used Everquest as an example.even today innovation is rare on both sides.

I also think the community in asian MMORPG's are more "involved" in the game for a complete diffrent reason then you suggested. I think its because of the nature of the game. Asian MMORPG's are usually around a certain event, and this (almost) always a pvp even. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, RF Online, ArchLord, Ragnarok Online,Rohan just to name a few. This usually brings in a lot of politics. Who is your enemy, who is your friend. This is a concept that doesn't seem to work for most western mmorpg players. They don't put themself "IN" the game, to be truly involved. It seems most western MMORPG players just want to log in and have some fun. No arguements, no travelling half a world just because a couple of guild members are having a pvp fight, no showing up at 1 AM just to battle that one guild. Not all that. Just log in, have fun, chat to guild members/party members, maybe do a dungeon. Just plain fun. During my experiences with asian MMORPG's, I found a complete diffrent experience. People are very involved in the game. Clan politics are going on everywhere, alliances are formed & broken, Castle's to take over, PVP fights are held over simple things like a mere hunting spot. things like that.

Its what I believe is the same reason why many korean MMORPG's are letting you fight the same mob for quite a long time. I mean, a quest system like in WoW is all nice and all, but its not going to result to PVP clashes, Because there is no hunting spot or no loot to fight over. Ever wondered why its actually quite rare to see a member of the oposing faction in WoW or Everquest 2?

In the gameplay part, you make mention that killing lower level mobs in Asian MMORPG's is the same as killing mobs at higher levels. While I completely agree with this, just how is this any diffrent from western MMORPG's? Because thats exactly what your doing in western games as well.

I also felt that you missed the key features. surely it has the standard advertisement, awesome weapons, skills, armor, blabla. You see that also with western MMORPG's. The diffrence is, this is actually what western MMORPG's are based on this. Korean MMORPG's are as well, but not completely. What they are really based on is explained above. Also, everyone running around in the same stuff is often done for a technical reason. Many Korean MMORPG's feature massive scale pvp fights. This is hardly avaible in any western mmorpg, hence it can afford more customization.

I also don't think western mmorpg's will do as well in the east as asian MMORPG's do in the west. The Chinese market is roughly the same as the korean one. Close to every western MMORPG that came to the east has closed down (except for UO japan). Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2. EVE and City of Heroes are doing mediocre, and I think its only a matter of time before EVE gets the plug in China. There has only been one western mmorpg that has been a smash hit in the east, and thats World of Warcraft, in fact, its doing better in the east then it does in the west in terms of playerbase. However, almost all eastern MMORPG's are doing great in the west.  close to every eastern MMORPG has been running around for years, and more are to come. Also, keep in mind that its the east, not the west, that is actually starting too try to apeal to both markets. Aion, for example, praises itself trying to fit to both markets. Ragnarok Online 2 has been given a complete new race that, according to Gravity, has been made for the western players. They also took the game into production for another year JUST so they could work a bit more on the graphics to apeal to both western and eastern players.


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14173

12/31/06 4:51:02 PM#11
Originally posted by Zerocool032


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.

Another good example of someone who should stick his nose out of debates like this. You obviously did ZERO research on the subject and has absolutely no idea

Yes I played Wow and Everquest 2, and, unless you played since the launch of your server, you will NOT see as many players of the other faction as could be possible. PVP encounters in WoW outside the battlegrounds are actually pretty rare. Because killing the same mob results to certain hunting spots. Everyone wants these hunting spots, which lead to pvp clashes.

Moving on, you state there is no debate and that western MMO's are "clearly" superior. as an example you use how many asian MMORPG's look alike, Oh, you mean just how most western MMORPG's copy Everquest? Face it, your biased, and you can't look at the full picture. Not to mention I will bet my right arm for it that you never played any non-translated asian MMORPG. you only played the few that came to the west. Some people prefer to kill the mob lots of time, combined with pvp clashes. Others, like yourself obviously, Prefer to do 5000 "Go kill XX" quests, followed by doing the same raids over and over again once you reach the endgame. Also, who is talking about asian MMORPG's endgame? Not I.

Asian MMO's have no diversity already gives away you don't have any idea what your talking about. and I think people will make up their own mind what to play, lots of people actually like asian MMORPG's (Just look at the huge success booked in the west by asian MMORPG's). Asian MMORPG's are here, and they are here to stay.
  buddhabeads

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 118

 
OP  12/31/06 5:34:52 PM#12
Originally posted by Gameloading
While your post is very well written and detailed, I can not really say it is fully correct, and its completely biased, but you explain your standpoint well
a few examples:

The grindfest: you point out how Asian MMORPG's are all grindfests. Not once do you point out that Western MMORPG's involve just as much as grinding as Asian MMORPG's do. In that same part, you claim that Korean MMORPG's are grounded around group play. This is incorrect. Asian MMORPG's are often open to both solo AND group play. If you want to group, fine, you can do that. if you want to go solo, no problem. Naturaly, grouping has a slight advantage, but in general, I feel that solo and grouping is very well balanced, without games being BASED on grouping.

You also claim that Korean MMORPG's are "behind" western MMORPG's and that are imitated. This is incorrect. Only slightly were some features taken from the smash Hit Diablo, which lead to Lineage 1: the blood pledge. Lineage 1 was a smash hit, and even today, it is the 2nd most successfull mmorpg in the world in terms of subscribers. Obviously, many korean games started to copy Lineage. Yet the EXACT same thing happened in western mmorpg's.Except it used Everquest as an example.even today innovation is rare on both sides.

I also think the community in asian MMORPG's are more "involved" in the game for a complete diffrent reason then you suggested. I think its because of the nature of the game. Asian MMORPG's are usually around a certain event, and this (almost) always a pvp even. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, RF Online, ArchLord, Ragnarok Online,Rohan just to name a few. This usually brings in a lot of politics. Who is your enemy, who is your friend. This is a concept that doesn't seem to work for most western mmorpg players. They don't put themself "IN" the game, to be truly involved. It seems most western MMORPG players just want to log in and have some fun. No arguements, no travelling half a world just because a couple of guild members are having a pvp fight, no showing up at 1 AM just to battle that one guild. Not all that. Just log in, have fun, chat to guild members/party members, maybe do a dungeon. Just plain fun. During my experiences with asian MMORPG's, I found a complete diffrent experience. People are very involved in the game. Clan politics are going on everywhere, alliances are formed & broken, Castle's to take over, PVP fights are held over simple things like a mere hunting spot. things like that.

Its what I believe is the same reason why many korean MMORPG's are letting you fight the same mob for quite a long time. I mean, a quest system like in WoW is all nice and all, but its not going to result to PVP clashes, Because there is no hunting spot or no loot to fight over. Ever wondered why its actually quite rare to see a member of the oposing faction in WoW or Everquest 2?

In the gameplay part, you make mention that killing lower level mobs in Asian MMORPG's is the same as killing mobs at higher levels. While I completely agree with this, just how is this any diffrent from western MMORPG's? Because thats exactly what your doing in western games as well.

I also felt that you missed the key features. surely it has the standard advertisement, awesome weapons, skills, armor, blabla. You see that also with western MMORPG's. The diffrence is, this is actually what western MMORPG's are based on this. Korean MMORPG's are as well, but not completely. What they are really based on is explained above. Also, everyone running around in the same stuff is often done for a technical reason. Many Korean MMORPG's feature massive scale pvp fights. This is hardly avaible in any western mmorpg, hence it can afford more customization.

I also don't think western mmorpg's will do as well in the east as asian MMORPG's do in the west. The Chinese market is roughly the same as the korean one. Close to every western MMORPG that came to the east has closed down (except for UO japan). Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2. EVE and City of Heroes are doing mediocre, and I think its only a matter of time before EVE gets the plug in China. There has only been one western mmorpg that has been a smash hit in the east, and thats World of Warcraft, in fact, its doing better in the east then it does in the west in terms of playerbase. However, almost all eastern MMORPG's are doing great in the west.  close to every eastern MMORPG has been running around for years, and more are to come. Also, keep in mind that its the east, not the west, that is actually starting too try to apeal to both markets. Aion, for example, praises itself trying to fit to both markets. Ragnarok Online 2 has been given a complete new race that, according to Gravity, has been made for the western players. They also took the game into production for another year JUST so they could work a bit more on the graphics to apeal to both western and eastern players.


You make some good points and i take them aboard. I guess i attempted to give a balanced overview of both Western and Asian MMORPGs, But i do think Asian games have much more of a grindfest which is really suited to Western audience. And group play is critical in Asian MMORPGs especially at higher levels and as you pointed out Asian gamers seemed to be more 'invovled' in the game politics, while Western players tend to seek a kind of immediate action.
By the way i don't claim that Korean/Chinese game industry are behind, but rather havve a shorter history and therefore i don't think the games are as well-rounded as Western games, but they certainly improving at a rapid rate.
I think the future of MMORPG lies in mass-scaled PvP, which i think Asian games will be the forefront of, a kind of mass -scaled war game scenerios that will make all the leveling worth it. I'm some people will claim that Western games have the same, but the forefront is in Asia
As for my conclusion i have a feeling that GW will do pretty well in Asia, because its' something to different to the other games on offer
  Yoishiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/02/06
Posts: 19

12/31/06 5:58:34 PM#13

Well , from my experiences , all games are a copy of a sucsess idea from another game , Wester Estern Asian all . But some games have unique ideas games have tried to copy and failed . Thats the problem of Estern MMOs , they are all the same (basicly) because they are succsesfull , if aint crooked dont fix it .

The wester Games (American ones) are kinda more questy (new word lol) . Im not saying that Estern games doesnt have quest , what im saying is that Wester games tend to have TONS of quests , thats all

My opinion is that the MMO market is OWNED by estern , "...and thats a scientific fact"

wanna play realy "Outside the box" games , play ZerA , Granado Espada

and look for more rare games like Project Wiki from Webzen co. the same from Huxley and SUN

Belive me , there are more Estern games than Western games , and i can tell you that there are more sucses titles from Estern than Western ....

Western :  Everquest I and II , Ultima . Anarchy Online , Eve Online , WoW , star Wars Galaxies

Estern    : u post them

  applepi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/06
Posts: 14

12/31/06 7:03:35 PM#14
Ok you guys all sound biased and favor one or the other (some more biased than others), but here is a simple conclusion. Western MMORPGs good. East MMORPGs are good. Both are different, but share common traits also. Neither is better than the other. Most people that play Western MMORPGs and the occasional Eastern MMORPG translated to English will find those to be mediocre. If you were to play the ones that have not been translated, you will find that they are quite fun and innovative, but different. Just like WoW is different too and just as fun and innovative. However observations of the population these MMORPGs are being marketed to must also be taken into consideration and thus can influence the popularity of each.
  thedude42

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 7

1/01/07 8:49:30 PM#15
I don't understand this...

Someone comes in to my post about my first impressions of Cabal closed beta, and I mention I don't feel like there's much community interaction int he game, and I get flamed for bashing Asian MMO's (which I most definitely wasn't).  Then I see in here that one of the premises for Asian MMO differences is the feeling of community.... which leads me to ask one question:

Is there honestly a difference between "western" and "asian" MMO's?  Or have the markets evolved as such that the majority of players who like one set of features lie in the west, and the majority of players who like another set of features lie in asia, but in reality successful games with both sets of features exist in both places?
  buddhabeads

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/06
Posts: 118

 
OP  1/01/07 11:05:34 PM#16
what i meant was that Asian MMOs on Asian servers have a much better sense of community. The translated games with their servers are just trash
  Asamof

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 728

1/02/07 4:16:21 AM#17
Originally posted by Zerocool032
Originally posted by Gameloading
While your post is very well written and detailed, I can not really say it is fully correct, and its completely biased, but you explain your standpoint well
a few examples:

The grindfest: you point out how Asian MMORPG's are all grindfests. Not once do you point out that Western MMORPG's involve just as much as grinding as Asian MMORPG's do. In that same part, you claim that Korean MMORPG's are grounded around group play. This is incorrect. Asian MMORPG's are often open to both solo AND group play. If you want to group, fine, you can do that. if you want to go solo, no problem. Naturaly, grouping has a slight advantage, but in general, I feel that solo and grouping is very well balanced, without games being BASED on grouping.

You also claim that Korean MMORPG's are "behind" western MMORPG's and that are imitated. This is incorrect. Only slightly were some features taken from the smash Hit Diablo, which lead to Lineage 1: the blood pledge. Lineage 1 was a smash hit, and even today, it is the 2nd most successfull mmorpg in the world in terms of subscribers. Obviously, many korean games started to copy Lineage. Yet the EXACT same thing happened in western mmorpg's.Except it used Everquest as an example.even today innovation is rare on both sides.

I also think the community in asian MMORPG's are more "involved" in the game for a complete diffrent reason then you suggested. I think its because of the nature of the game. Asian MMORPG's are usually around a certain event, and this (almost) always a pvp even. Lineage 1, Lineage 2, RF Online, ArchLord, Ragnarok Online,Rohan just to name a few. This usually brings in a lot of politics. Who is your enemy, who is your friend. This is a concept that doesn't seem to work for most western mmorpg players. They don't put themself "IN" the game, to be truly involved. It seems most western MMORPG players just want to log in and have some fun. No arguements, no travelling half a world just because a couple of guild members are having a pvp fight, no showing up at 1 AM just to battle that one guild. Not all that. Just log in, have fun, chat to guild members/party members, maybe do a dungeon. Just plain fun. During my experiences with asian MMORPG's, I found a complete diffrent experience. People are very involved in the game. Clan politics are going on everywhere, alliances are formed & broken, Castle's to take over, PVP fights are held over simple things like a mere hunting spot. things like that.

Its what I believe is the same reason why many korean MMORPG's are letting you fight the same mob for quite a long time. I mean, a quest system like in WoW is all nice and all, but its not going to result to PVP clashes, Because there is no hunting spot or no loot to fight over. Ever wondered why its actually quite rare to see a member of the oposing faction in WoW or Everquest 2?

In the gameplay part, you make mention that killing lower level mobs in Asian MMORPG's is the same as killing mobs at higher levels. While I completely agree with this, just how is this any diffrent from western MMORPG's? Because thats exactly what your doing in western games as well.

I also felt that you missed the key features. surely it has the standard advertisement, awesome weapons, skills, armor, blabla. You see that also with western MMORPG's. The diffrence is, this is actually what western MMORPG's are based on this. Korean MMORPG's are as well, but not completely. What they are really based on is explained above. Also, everyone running around in the same stuff is often done for a technical reason. Many Korean MMORPG's feature massive scale pvp fights. This is hardly avaible in any western mmorpg, hence it can afford more customization.

I also don't think western mmorpg's will do as well in the east as asian MMORPG's do in the west. The Chinese market is roughly the same as the korean one. Close to every western MMORPG that came to the east has closed down (except for UO japan). Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2. EVE and City of Heroes are doing mediocre, and I think its only a matter of time before EVE gets the plug in China. There has only been one western mmorpg that has been a smash hit in the east, and thats World of Warcraft, in fact, its doing better in the east then it does in the west in terms of playerbase. However, almost all eastern MMORPG's are doing great in the west.  close to every eastern MMORPG has been running around for years, and more are to come. Also, keep in mind that its the east, not the west, that is actually starting too try to apeal to both markets. Aion, for example, praises itself trying to fit to both markets. Ragnarok Online 2 has been given a complete new race that, according to Gravity, has been made for the western players. They also took the game into production for another year JUST so they could work a bit more on the graphics to apeal to both western and eastern players.


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.


You did a fine job describing WoW!
  Zerocool032

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 735

1/02/07 2:46:40 PM#18
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Zerocool032


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.

Another good example of someone who should stick his nose out of debates like this. You obviously did ZERO research on the subject and has absolutely no idea

Yes I played Wow and Everquest 2, and, unless you played since the launch of your server, you will NOT see as many players of the other faction as could be possible. PVP encounters in WoW outside the battlegrounds are actually pretty rare. Because killing the same mob results to certain hunting spots. Everyone wants these hunting spots, which lead to pvp clashes.

Moving on, you state there is no debate and that western MMO's are "clearly" superior. as an example you use how many asian MMORPG's look alike, Oh, you mean just how most western MMORPG's copy Everquest? Face it, your biased, and you can't look at the full picture. Not to mention I will bet my right arm for it that you never played any non-translated asian MMORPG. you only played the few that came to the west. Some people prefer to kill the mob lots of time, combined with pvp clashes. Others, like yourself obviously, Prefer to do 5000 "Go kill XX" quests, followed by doing the same raids over and over again once you reach the endgame. Also, who is talking about asian MMORPG's endgame? Not I.

Asian MMO's have no diversity already gives away you don't have any idea what your talking about. and I think people will make up their own mind what to play, lots of people actually like asian MMORPG's (Just look at the huge success booked in the west by asian MMORPG's). Asian MMORPG's are here, and they are here to stay.

 

All Western MMO's copy everquest?  Are you blind? Name 1 western MMO that uses the exact same, interface, engine, ect. ect.  And PvP clashes for hunting spots?  Haha thats the lamest thing ive ever heard of.  Ive played L2 for an extended period of time to know that there are a million other spots a player can grind.  Rather than being flaged red for killing somone in a hunting spot.

And honestly, what would you rather do?  Click 2 buttons to kill 5k mobs to level up, rinse and repeat.  Or quest, grind, instance, raid, PvP, ect. ect??

And stop using the argument that every western MMO copys everquest.  They might have the same playstyle, for example, questing, grinding, pvp, instance, ect. ect.  But do they all use the same game engine? interface? grindfest gameplay? 4 armor/weapons every 10 levels? Diversity?  I think not.

And yes, ive played both WoW (beta) and EQ2 since launch,  Yeah PvP in EQ2 might be rare. But in WoW it happens all the time.  Maybe you never got past lvl 20 in WoW, but in the higher lvls PvP happens all the time. (Not in BG's either)

Im sorry but Asian MMOs just have very bold content.  They are almost the exact same in looks too.  And to say that all Western MMOs copy EQ, is just complete ignorance.

  Gameloading

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 14173

1/02/07 6:29:35 PM#19
Originally posted by Zerocool032
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Zerocool032


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.

Another good example of someone who should stick his nose out of debates like this. You obviously did ZERO research on the subject and has absolutely no idea

Yes I played Wow and Everquest 2, and, unless you played since the launch of your server, you will NOT see as many players of the other faction as could be possible. PVP encounters in WoW outside the battlegrounds are actually pretty rare. Because killing the same mob results to certain hunting spots. Everyone wants these hunting spots, which lead to pvp clashes.

Moving on, you state there is no debate and that western MMO's are "clearly" superior. as an example you use how many asian MMORPG's look alike, Oh, you mean just how most western MMORPG's copy Everquest? Face it, your biased, and you can't look at the full picture. Not to mention I will bet my right arm for it that you never played any non-translated asian MMORPG. you only played the few that came to the west. Some people prefer to kill the mob lots of time, combined with pvp clashes. Others, like yourself obviously, Prefer to do 5000 "Go kill XX" quests, followed by doing the same raids over and over again once you reach the endgame. Also, who is talking about asian MMORPG's endgame? Not I.

Asian MMO's have no diversity already gives away you don't have any idea what your talking about. and I think people will make up their own mind what to play, lots of people actually like asian MMORPG's (Just look at the huge success booked in the west by asian MMORPG's). Asian MMORPG's are here, and they are here to stay.

 

All Western MMO's copy everquest?  Are you blind? Name 1 western MMO that uses the exact same, interface, engine, ect. ect.  And PvP clashes for hunting spots?  Haha thats the lamest thing ive ever heard of.  Ive played L2 for an extended period of time to know that there are a million other spots a player can grind.  Rather than being flaged red for killing somone in a hunting spot.

And honestly, what would you rather do?  Click 2 buttons to kill 5k mobs to level up, rinse and repeat.  Or quest, grind, instance, raid, PvP, ect. ect??

And stop using the argument that every western MMO copys everquest.  They might have the same playstyle, for example, questing, grinding, pvp, instance, ect. ect.  But do they all use the same game engine? interface? grindfest gameplay? 4 armor/weapons every 10 levels? Diversity?  I think not.

And yes, ive played both WoW (beta) and EQ2 since launch,  Yeah PvP in EQ2 might be rare. But in WoW it happens all the time.  Maybe you never got past lvl 20 in WoW, but in the higher lvls PvP happens all the time. (Not in BG's either)

Im sorry but Asian MMOs just have very bold content.  They are almost the exact same in looks too.  And to say that all Western MMOs copy EQ, is just complete ignorance.

Good sir, I recommend you actually READ my post first , Because NOT ONCE did I say all western MMORPG's copy Everquest. NOT ONCE. You want me to name a few that do? Sure thing, Dark Age of Camelot is heavily based on Everquest. World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, CoH,AO. Later 2 use a diffrent theme but at the core, they are the same thing as EQ1.

You once more prove that you are completely biased on this subject. You pretend like all asian MMO's are click 2 buttons to kill 5 mobs, then you claim that western MMO's have "quest, instance,raid & pvp". Sorry to inform you, but most asian MMORPG's have these features as well. In fact, In most asian MMORPG's, PVP stands at the center of attention, and Lineage 2 for example contains raids of 200 people at the same time.  Do they all use the same game engine? they don't, neither do asian MMORPG's. Interface is diffrent in every mmorpg. Grindfest also counts for western MMORPG (Example, the grind in EQ2 and WoW is exactly the same) and most of them do have roughly the same itemization.

You stating that WoW's pvp outside BG's happen all the time proves to me your too biased to be taken seriously.

And again, I NEVER said all western MMORPG's copy Everquest. You stating that all asian MMORPG's are the same is ignorance. You didn't play all of them, you are in NO POSITION to claim they are all the same.
  Zerocool032

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 735

1/02/07 9:10:08 PM#20
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Zerocool032
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Zerocool032


  Your saying questing in WoW is good, but it doesnt result in PvP clashes?  Then explain how killing the same mob 2k times results in PvP clashes.  You also said that you rarley ever see the opposing faction in WoW and EQ2.  What are you talking about?  Have you even played WoW?? 

There is no debate.  Western MMO's are CLEARLY superior.  Why?  Well open your godamn eyes!  Look at 90% of Asian MMOs.  They copy each other and slap on different content (models, maps, weapons, ect.) And on top of all that, the content that the game DOES have, is VERY limited. Few quests, VERY few armor and weapons, almost everybody looks the same!  Not only that, who would want to kill the same mob a thousand times just to level up?  Oh here come the fanbois, "But pvp in asian MMOs is awsome at endgame!!!"  Well sorry, but it if requires months of mindless clicking, its just not fun.

Asian MMOs have no diversity.  Just let the asians play their game, and let us play ours.

Another good example of someone who should stick his nose out of debates like this. You obviously did ZERO research on the subject and has absolutely no idea

Yes I played Wow and Everquest 2, and, unless you played since the launch of your server, you will NOT see as many players of the other faction as could be possible. PVP encounters in WoW outside the battlegrounds are actually pretty rare. Because killing the same mob results to certain hunting spots. Everyone wants these hunting spots, which lead to pvp clashes.

Moving on, you state there is no debate and that western MMO's are "clearly" superior. as an example you use how many asian MMORPG's look alike, Oh, you mean just how most western MMORPG's copy Everquest? Face it, your biased, and you can't look at the full picture. Not to mention I will bet my right arm for it that you never played any non-translated asian MMORPG. you only played the few that came to the west. Some people prefer to kill the mob lots of time, combined with pvp clashes. Others, like yourself obviously, Prefer to do 5000 "Go kill XX" quests, followed by doing the same raids over and over again once you reach the endgame. Also, who is talking about asian MMORPG's endgame? Not I.

Asian MMO's have no diversity already gives away you don't have any idea what your talking about. and I think people will make up their own mind what to play, lots of people actually like asian MMORPG's (Just look at the huge success booked in the west by asian MMORPG's). Asian MMORPG's are here, and they are here to stay.

 

All Western MMO's copy everquest?  Are you blind? Name 1 western MMO that uses the exact same, interface, engine, ect. ect.  And PvP clashes for hunting spots?  Haha thats the lamest thing ive ever heard of.  Ive played L2 for an extended period of time to know that there are a million other spots a player can grind.  Rather than being flaged red for killing somone in a hunting spot.

And honestly, what would you rather do?  Click 2 buttons to kill 5k mobs to level up, rinse and repeat.  Or quest, grind, instance, raid, PvP, ect. ect??

And stop using the argument that every western MMO copys everquest.  They might have the same playstyle, for example, questing, grinding, pvp, instance, ect. ect.  But do they all use the same game engine? interface? grindfest gameplay? 4 armor/weapons every 10 levels? Diversity?  I think not.

And yes, ive played both WoW (beta) and EQ2 since launch,  Yeah PvP in EQ2 might be rare. But in WoW it happens all the time.  Maybe you never got past lvl 20 in WoW, but in the higher lvls PvP happens all the time. (Not in BG's either)

Im sorry but Asian MMOs just have very bold content.  They are almost the exact same in looks too.  And to say that all Western MMOs copy EQ, is just complete ignorance.

Good sir, I recommend you actually READ my post first , Because NOT ONCE did I say all western MMORPG's copy Everquest. NOT ONCE. You want me to name a few that do? Sure thing, Dark Age of Camelot is heavily based on Everquest. World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, CoH,AO. Later 2 use a diffrent theme but at the core, they are the same thing as EQ1.

You once more prove that you are completely biased on this subject. You pretend like all asian MMO's are click 2 buttons to kill 5 mobs, then you claim that western MMO's have "quest, instance,raid & pvp". Sorry to inform you, but most asian MMORPG's have these features as well. In fact, In most asian MMORPG's, PVP stands at the center of attention, and Lineage 2 for example contains raids of 200 people at the same time.  Do they all use the same game engine? they don't, neither do asian MMORPG's. Interface is diffrent in every mmorpg. Grindfest also counts for western MMORPG (Example, the grind in EQ2 and WoW is exactly the same) and most of them do have roughly the same itemization.

You stating that WoW's pvp outside BG's happen all the time proves to me your too biased to be taken seriously.

And again, I NEVER said all western MMORPG's copy Everquest. You stating that all asian MMORPG's are the same is ignorance. You didn't play all of them, you are in NO POSITION to claim they are all the same.

First off, Yes im aware the Asian MMOs have those features aswell.  But like i said they are all the exact same throughout most asian MMOs.  And the questing / instancing thats done with them are half - assed compared to Western MMOs.

And have you actually played most asian MMOs?  Im guessing not by that statement because you must be blind if you cant see how all asian MMOs look alike.

And you just mentioned most popular western MMOs and said they copy EQ, but im sorry most of them DONT HAVE THE SAME INTERFACE, GAME EGNINE, OMFG ect. ect.  Thats the point your not getting, they all look the F^^^^ing same!!  I would know.  Ive played nearly all of those games youve listed for atleast 3 months.  ( Cept DAoC played that for 3 years)


Ive been playing WoW since launch, i KNOW what im talking about when i say Pvp happens all the time outside of BGs.

I have played the majority of asian imported games, and YES they are basically ALL the same.  But there are some that follow a different playstyle, voyage century online, pirate king online, MU online.   But the majority of the most hyped asian MMOs are the ones with the grindest, same shit gameplay.

And gameloading, tell me why almost all asian MMOs give VERY few armor/ weapons per 6-10 levels?  Im sorry and the character custimization is extremely limited and dull.  Face it, Asian MMOs offer no diversity.

And also, by saying the grind in EQ2 and WoW are exactly the same, Im not sure exactly what you mean.  And im sure most people would rather do other things than the constant grind we see in most asian MMOs

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