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News Discussion  » General: Casual Play: Lowbies of the World Unite

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76 posts found
  hashdh

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 8

12/28/06 12:51:36 PM#21
while im down for players playing their character however they wish (since it's their money), i wouldnt call what is described in this article as a casual gamer, just a indecisive, possibly lazy one. casual gamers of mmos doesnt mean "never getting to level cap", just means they dont want to raid/group/etc every night of the week. i dont know what id call this putzing around on multiple toons and never getting to cap. probably a waste of money. not trying to be a jerk, but there are tons of single player games that dont have a pay-to-play part of it, that you can get a very etnertaining solo experience without the need to get to level cap or beat it. i dont get the point of mmos if your going to be a lowbie the entire time. i have a friend that does this, he has like 10 wow characters, not a single one over level 40. all he does is get frstrated he cant go on raids or pvp groups with us, and whines about it instead of, yanno, actually leveling a character to cap. in wow in particular its NOT hard in any way to get to the current end cap. a casual gamer playing a few hours a week can get to end cap within a few months, the more hardcore within a couple of weeks. so again, WHAT is the purpose of dinking around on a bunch of lowbie chars instead of investing that time into 1-2 and getting to 60? its an mmo, mmos are geared towards end cap, so staying with lowbies is just cutting yourself off to the good parts of the game. not my money so do whatever you want. but seems like a waste of a monthly fee to me. and where the hell is my paragraph breaks on these stupid posts... i swear i put them in.
  foosnark

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/06
Posts: 1

12/28/06 1:05:02 PM#22
This is how my wife and I play too.  In WOW I had a level 52 Rogue and a level 53 Warlock, and that's as close to the endgame as I've ever gotten in any RPG.  To me the endgame wasn't a very attractive goal anyway.  I had many characters in their teens and twenties, all races and classes and often multiple builds of the same class.

Even in hack-n-slash-fests like Diablo II, and paper and pencil RPGing, I'm always wanting to try new characters.  Eventually you get sick of the same content over and over at low levels though, because the games aren't designed for our kind of play.
  vickykol

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/03
Posts: 102

12/28/06 1:05:53 PM#23

I always max out the number of allowable characters, but I think for many different reasons that Mr. Wilson describes.

I agree that it is interesting to see all of the content that a game world has to offer.  I am also a "quest-er," and given the options of a pick up experience group or completing a solo quest, I will always opt for the quest, even if it doesn't give me experience or tangible benefits.  As a result, I sometimes level slowly.

Unlike Wilson, I consider all of my characters as individual characters, and I tend to create at least simple backstories for them.  I like to immerse myself, and to see the world from different eyes (hence a preference for first person viewpoint and deep content).  As a result, I find the term "toon" grating, because it is extremely anti-immersive.

There are three main reasons that I max out the number of alts.  First, I am incredibly indecisive.  At a buffet I take a serving of everything, just in case I miss out on the good stuff.  Multiple alts lets me do a little of everything.  Second, I create my own interconnected support network.  Because I do not level quickly, I tend to go for "family" style guilds who often don't provide a good support network.  It helps to have a stable of crafting and other support specialists that I can rely on.  Third, I am a packrat, and in many games my alts function as a large communal shared bank.

I actually liked SWG in the beginning, even though the one alt per server thang really messed up my normal style.  I liked the original skill based system.

I am also an MMORPG-aholic.  I am down to playing two games regularly (several times a week), another three semi-frequently (one session every other week) and a couple more infrequently (I have SOE's bundle that keeps me with too many games active).  I also renew my subscriptions for a month on two other games about twice a year.  I do get attached to the characters, and I sometimes need to go back and revisit them.

  kspada

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 22

A Ship in Harbor is safe, but that''s not why Ships are built...

12/28/06 1:06:47 PM#24

I must confess I am also an "Altaholic" lol.  You may call it laziness if you like, you can even call it a waste of time and money if that is what you think.  But for myself I really have alot of fun making different characters and trying them on for size.  I have leveled characters up to cap as well, but I love to try out new races and classes.  So I've always had all my character slots filled.  I don't see anything wrong with playing the game this way if that is what you enjoy.  To me it isn't about the money of a monthly fee or trying to be the highest and best player out there... its ALL about what makes the game enjoyable for me at any given time. 

People are always entitled to think what they will.  I agree with the article and its point.  Enjoy the game by doing what YOU like to do, not what others dictate you should do.  I am also a "Casual gamer"  I am 36 years old, married, full time job and not alot of time.  On different nights I play different ways depending on my mood.  There is no "indecisiveness" involved.  Just like I'll have spagetti one night for dinner and turkey on another night, all depends on the mood of the day. 

Aspire to Inspire before you Expire...

  Anofalye

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7423

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

12/28/06 1:14:51 PM#25

Well, I see his "obsession" with the need to try and check everything, which is fine, but which is definitely different from my obession to be the best and reach the top and master what I am doing.  Yet, he is just as obsessed as I am, with a different point.  My it is refining 1 character to perfection.  His is to play everything and master everything.  Opposite way of thinking of the same spectrum.

 

GW is a game I would never consider to even try (unless I am been paid to, this is that painful to even consider been stuck that way), I like to refine my action, a thousands time or more, to PROGRESS and evolves.  I am pretty sure he would love GW, while me, I would not even grant it my presence, I know I would not enjoy it.

 

He seeks perfection in diversity, in doing everything.  I seek perfection by mastering 1 aspect  "eternally".  Who is right, the specialist(me) or the generalist(him)?  Prolly both, in their own way.  However, most designs are to weak to encompass both logics and usually have to stick with either.  Lately, most logics go toward the generalist, which leave me starving for a specialist minding...

 

In most games I play, most of my toons are either, max level or level 10-.  I can't stick to alternates, to entirely new stuff.  I like to IMPROVE; to PROGRESS.  Would I go camp UK in EQ NOW?  I would if it was not for raiding...as long as the progression would be linked there again somehow.  To stop playing a character in mid level?  It mean I dislike that character and give it more chances than I should.  Otherwise, the character will reach MAX levels and beyond before I switch...or never bypass level 10 or so.

 

Personnally, I never have enough of MY main avatar, could always take more, and more, and more, and more.  Unlimited levels?  I am already drooling.  Refining and progressing ad vitam eternam! 

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)

  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 210

12/28/06 1:18:32 PM#26
I am a dabbler, but that has more to do with me never really finding a class I like and a short attention span.
  Dreneth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/05
Posts: 709

12/28/06 1:31:19 PM#27

Someone a few posts back referred to the author of the article as lazy rather than casual... which I find to be rather amusing, due to the fact that you can't get any more casual than lazy.

Wikipedia's take on "Casual Gamer": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_gamer

Personally... if you aren't a hardcore gamer, you are casual.  It doesn't matter if you level or not, if you raid or not, if you are playing a game once in a while, or do not take a hardcore position in gaming... you are a casual gamer.  Everyone has their own play style, we are after all talking about PLAYING a GAME here, not competing in the Olympics.

The idea that people feel the author of this article is too casual... when writing about casual play... definitely a good chuckle.  :)

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  Kane

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/04
Posts: 775

12/28/06 1:48:00 PM#28
Lets just say I've had WoW since launch. Highest level is 33. I know exactly where he's coming from.
  cyberlettuce

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 18

12/28/06 2:22:28 PM#29

Yep another dabbler here. In fact to this date I have never reached the level cap in any MMORPG. I tend to hit a wall with characters and get bored with them and generally after I have tried every conceivable mix of race and classes I tend to get bored of the game altogether. Having said that giving the character's a personality and a bit of roleplay spice tends to extend the boredom threshold a lot.

-------

"At the very least, doing the wet towel snap should disconnect the nerves of the spinal column, causing total paralysis, thus enabling you to skin the bastard alive."

  Dragonmuse

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 12

100 characters max?!? Whatever will I do with my spare time?

12/28/06 3:11:02 PM#30

Interesting article. It gives me a little insight on my son's playstyle. His highest in DAoC was 36, and his highest in WoW is 53 and he has tons of really low alts. I swear he just likes playing with the character creators more than the game.

I completely understand the desire to try other classes and races.. I always do that. Only I tend to get many to max level and beyond.
In DAoC, I have 19 level 50s, most are at least Master level 5, one is ML 10. I am not a huge PvPer, but still managed to get a few close to RR5, and 1 to RR8.

Currently in WoW I have 3 level 60s, one has full tier 2, part of her tier 2.5 and is just starting Naxx, another has about half of her tier 2 and the third has all of her tier 1.. And my 58 lock hit her first raid yesterday.   I love raiding with different characters.. playing from the different angles. That to me is true exploration. (The ultimate exploration and accomplishment is PvP, but that is not my forte.. I only ever do that to enjoy the company of my guildmates and/or to accomplish certain goals - in DAoC, that was to gain certain abilities - WoW's reward system holds no enticement for me at all.)

I feel not getting to the max level shuts me out from way too much. It has been my experience that the game becomes much more interesting once my characters have all of their abilities.. sometimes I even have more than one of the same class but with different specs. In DAoC, I have 3 midgard healers, 2 hibernian druids, 3 bards, 2 Alb necromancers. Right now in WoW, my main is a hunter and I am raising another one on the opposite side. I also will explore similar classes.. My second in WoW is a druid, third is priest.. in DAoC, 12 of my characters were healer types, most of the rest were pet/caster classes. I also have a skald and minstrel as well as the bards. The hero is a definite exception.  (All are 50)

I do make and play every class and try to play them to  at least 24 in DAoC and 30 in WoW, even if I don't like them. It helps give me some insight into the mechanics of the class and hopefully allow me to understand where the players of those classes are coming from. This is useful in raiding (especially as a healer and for the occaisional raids I lead) and very useful in PvP.

All this said though, when I am tired and need to just wind down, I find nothing more pleasurable than to explore on a lowbie. That might be why I love beta testing :)

Oh, and I agree about Sony's policy of minimal character slots.. I refuse to play their games because of it. It just strikes me as them being cheapskates.

  wormywyrm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1468

12/28/06 3:27:02 PM#31

wI highly disagree with the comments about SWGs one character per server policy...

You did not have to 'give up' a profession to achieve another profession, although I'm not sure if you do or not in the NGE.  You could have several of the the lowbie professions at once in SWG, which if anything, made it a lowbie players wet dream.  Since leveling in pre-cu SWG was about skill point allocation, you could use up all your skill points without ever reaching into the grind-heavy skill trees.  This makes your lowbie character much more powerful than a typical lowbie character would be...  It also means you can become comfortable with your character, and continue to use some skill trees while you are modifying others.

The one character per server is a great community builder...  It allows for familiarity-  As opposed to seeing new characters wandering around every day, you will find yourself seeing the same characters in the world day after day.  There was a time in SWG where I could easy recognize players by seeing their avatar.  Every day I would log in and on my way to whatever I decided to do that day, I would see familiar players doing their thing around the game cities or  run into them while running missions in their favourite spots.  You get to know other players, and become familiar with their characters, as well as becoming very familiar and attached to your own character.

I got annoyed and bored with the end game in World of Warcraft; I can certainly see why someone would want to replay the first thirty levels in that game.  They are by far the most fun part of WoW...  They are also incredibly solo-friendly though, which could be or not be a bad thing.  I have to admit that I was unable to get very far in EQ2, because it is pretty difficult to level in EQ2, and I dont enjoy grinds very much.  I also left EVE after trying it for a couple months, mostly because I didnt have the detication to become a major player in the game world, I didnt have the patience to endure the slow gameplay, and I became bored with the lack of human avatars...

Right now I am playing Guild Wars, which is a very lowbie friendly game, because almost all players have many characters.   The complete lack of level or item grinding leaves lowbies open to a very competitive situation.  I really do enjoy GW, but I really miss the sense of community, familiarity, and attachment to SWG and my SWG character (may he rest in peace).  They are very different games, so a sense of lost is expected I suppose.

Play as your favorite retro characters: www.cnd-online.net and read my blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com/

  delateur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 145

12/28/06 4:06:22 PM#32

I certainly fall into the category of an alt-lover, but I have reached the endgame in CoH (but not CoV). Really, as games go, it's more due to the strong feelings of work/grinding that arise more than any lack of desire to reach that level of "greatness." Even the most enjoyable gameplay eventually becomes boring when you've logged hundreds of hours of it with very little change as you slowly advance and add another notch to your level or skill belt.

Some have said that Steve cannot claim to be an "expert" on this subject because he's only got one character that reached 60 in all of the MMOGs he's played. I fail to see the attempt to do so. He is merely relating the experience he's had reaching the endgame, and how it felt in doing so. Sure, there is a large bit of content he's missed by not endgaming every MMOG he's played, but the points he's making remain valid. As you advance, the grind to level becomes longer and more noticeable. As you try various alts, your general knowledge of gameplay increases dramatically as you begin to see the benefits and drawbacks of various character choices one makes while advancing. Lastly, because you are not locking yourself into one character, you're able to introduce variety in gameplay that would not exist if you stuck to one character in a typical "your choice is final" kind of game.

Personally, I like to have 2 or 3 characters to switch between that play very differently from each other. Having this, I find I can devote myself to each one and move around if one particular grind becomes too painful. However, sometimes I simply start over, because I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. The grind has become all-encompassing, and I just need to begin again. Other times, a character doesn't turn out as I intended, so I will remake that character with this new knowledge, making some key changes in my choices as I advance. This is not to imply that endgamer-types are wrong in how they play. If they're enjoying the experience, then that's the right way to play. However, for me, I think I'll forever have a case of incurable altitis, unless of course, a MMOG manages to make the progression all the way to endgame virtually grind-free and fun.

  dadown

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/04
Posts: 194

12/28/06 4:37:13 PM#33
I identified with the article as I also like to try out most skills in games.  Thise that critisize the author just because they have different play styles are being narrowminded.
 
I thought the '1 char/server' on SWG was stupid too.  I had to play on 3 different servers just to get the variety of skills that I was interested in.  And then being on different servers, they couldn't share items between them.
 
On WoW, I had a full set of characters on my main server (Alliance PvE) where I had char of each class and 2 mule chars.  I got my favorite (a hunter) to level 60 and then found it less interesting to play.  My other characters were in 50s and 40s.  I did max out most of the professions as I enjoy crafting a lot and wish there was more variety in WoW.  I considered them a family and would play different ones depending on the mood I was in.  Having a full set of crafters allowed me to be self-suffient in making my own stuff.  For me, grinding madly to 60 is missing half of the game.  The fun of getting there is much more interesting than arriving at the destination.
 
I also had sets of characters on other servers (horde PvE, alliance PvP and horde PvP), but the PvP chars were all under 30 because I'm not in a PvP mood very often.  Being on other servers also allowed me to play when my main server wasn't available.
 
I'd been playing WoW since beta and finally quit when the WoW 2.0 patch ruined many of my mods.  I've since started playing Guild Wars, but it lacks the crafting that I enjoy so I don't play it regularly like I did WoW.  I also got ES4: Oblivion and really enjoy the features but miss the multi-player aspect.  I have yet to find my "ideal" game, but have found a variety of games with different features that I like, so maybe one day I find a game with most of the features in the same game.
  JadedDragon

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/06
Posts: 21

12/28/06 4:40:50 PM#34
All hail the Alt-a-holic! My MMO poison of choice is CoH/CoV and I think I have some 80 characters ranging from level 4 to 50 with the majority being in the 10 to 20 range.....that 50...that one 50, took 2 years to get and was mainly done to open up two more character types. ;) Peace my Alt brothers and sisters....continue the fight!
  brenth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 289

12/28/06 4:50:21 PM#35

while I agree with what you said  you didnt go far enough....

most of the time   once youve played the games to about 20   you have seen everything that is interesting in a game.  Games dont get any "better" the higher you go  it doesnt get more complex or interesting   just a bigger hammer and a bigger mole.

if you view a game like a river  games are just as narrow  at 5th level as they are at 55th level there is rarely something that makes players go WHOA!   whole games are cought in this currsed sucking vortez of leveling that  draws all energy away from other content that is why you end up with every game with the same  arcade kill/level grind.

also once you hit max 60  all you have left to do is "raid"  or "pvp" both of which are prety darn pointless  why raid for gear you dont need its not like you still have to level or anything!   why isnt their some things to do that are WORTHY of a level 60 talent  like being a warlord or ruler of a kingdom  or  leading a wizard guild  or being head of a church  with  definite goals and direction  for example  a cleric  could become part of a church  and work their way up to  bishop or pope  with the goals of helping people and gaining converts to his god      a warrior could become a mayor and work their way up the ranks to king  with the goal of trying to make his kingdom prosper and kuell  rebels or bandits

players dont make a difference in these static games so whats the point in leveling for the sake of leveling

games need to be able to evolve both foward and backward players should be able to build bridges and aquaducts  and wells  and towers  but on the reverse side  nothing is imune to chaos  this might mean that  certain places  can get overrun or even destroyed by the enemy   it gives players a reason to care about their village  not just get out of the way when its attacked and wait for the enemy to predictably withdraw after such a mechanical attack.

I think every player should have  plots of land  even if they must be instanced to include a house plot,workshop plot, barn plot,farm plot

what they do with these plots is up to them  they could even rent them to another player maby one that likes to grow corn :)

in sumation  theres nothing in games to justify leveling any farther than about 20.

why do you not level very high?

you love tinkering with diverse charactors
not enough time to play high
the game content at high level doesnt interest you
your not into raiding or PVP
you have a low attention span so you change charactors often when you get bored
other game reason
other non game reason
(login to vote)

make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.

  DijonCyanide

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/03
Posts: 228

12/28/06 5:10:01 PM#36
  A couple of years ago when I still played EQ I only played (1) character till a couple of months knowing I was probably going to quit.  Then I achieved a few characters into the tweens & low 20s.  Of course I used my MNK to "twink" their gear making it far easier.  I'm more of a one toon player.  Since then the only onliner I've played is my dabbling in Guild Wars where I play a couple of toons from time to time whcih are both 20.  I haven't done the multiple server playing yet either.  If Vanguard has extreme requirements like EQ2 did then I'll probably plow into WoW since so many playing are evident that it has to be somewhat fun.  I could go back to EQ, I always wanted to try that duel-player playing, via Station Access till I get the neccessary machine for Vanguard, but the Earth might get hit by an asteroid before that happens too. 
  nodamnspam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/05
Posts: 41

12/28/06 5:58:07 PM#37
I too suffer from the desire to sample the entire buffet offered in a game. I played the original EQ and leveled 6 characters to around 30, switching between them every couple days. I also got in a good group everynight while I was working at nights so my Druid actually made 46. My beastlord made 62 - only because I promised guildies to play one character until I made the level cap at 65. The guild died before I made it lol. In all my 5 years of playing Everquest I raided a total of 3 times. It just wasn't for me. I prefer the small group dynamic. Same story for most games I've played.. City of Heroes, Anarchy Online, Wow, and even Eve-Online. I like to mix it up. And when I do make it to the endgame it ends up being raiding.. and move on. Seems like more people are soloing than grouping and many games nowadays are being tamed to be more solo friendly.
rivethead23 Xfire Miniprofile
  Stratus8

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/04
Posts: 163

Professional Lowbie

12/28/06 6:43:27 PM#38
In Anarchy Online I've never had a character leveled above level 61. I've tried every profession available up to around 30-50 and stopped then. Its kind of sad that I dont have the mindset to level one character all the way to level 220 but at the same time I learned alot about different professions and their core skills, much like the article said. Woot for all Professional Lowbies!
  Brynn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/03
Posts: 262

12/28/06 6:52:49 PM#39

I'm an alt junkie; I fill every character slot, even if I don't level them up very far. I like diversity. I don't like the way online games end up in raiding and PvP, so I don't care to level a character that high.

There are some good points in the posts in this thread, largely pointing out how boring the higher levels are. If you've seen and done almost everything, then all that's left is the grind up to the boredom. That is, unless you enjoy that endless achievement of nothing.

  nomadian

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/05
Posts: 3485

12/28/06 7:10:47 PM#40



From my newfound and lofty position of having finally reached level cap I have to wonder, how many others are out there like me, playing a little more than they like to admit but diluting the accomplishment across an entire cast of characters? Whose lowbie characters have little value beyond their ability to offer different ways to solve the same sets of problems? How many people love to have an entire family of characters all fairly low level from spreading the love out among too many? How many people out there are professional lowbies?

Reading the column I'm relieved to see this because I was about to say having so many alts doesn't necessarily constitute casual but as hardcore as the people who are 60. I am very familiar with it, having myself many alts in WoW that I never got one to 60. Having so many alts while gave variety was quite a pain in the ass as you would have to kind of be firm and schedule x amount of time with a character so that he would at least progress as the temptation would be just to go onto another.

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