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Originally posted by Robotix
If you're an uncreative, lazy pleb who can't think for themselves.. then ryzom isn't your game

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Originally posted by EggFtegg
Aye, if you lack imagination, have no sense of discovery and need someone to tell you what to do, Ryzom can seem somewhat dull. I occasionally have uninspired days when I'm better off playing a FPS or a single player, quest driven RPG. I'm yet to see a mmorpg I'd rather play though.

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Aye, if you lack friends in real life so much that you have to imagine a different world to escape to.  I Occasionally have uninspired days when I actually believe i Live inside a computer game.  I often find myself waking waiting to enter this virtual world.  If this sounds like you then ryzom is a must for you.

P.S anyone can do this. Its just a biased unevidenced opinion and shouldn't even be bothered posting.  If ryzpm is so good then explain why.  Maybe this is why your game is dead/.

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Aye, if you lack friends in real life so much that you have to imagine a different world to escape to.  I Occasionally have uninspired days when I actually believe i Live inside a computer game.  I often find myself waking waiting to enter this virtual world.  If this sounds like you then ryzom is a must for you.

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Originally posted by Neas

Aye, if you lack friends in real life so much that you have to imagine a different world to escape to.  I Occasionally have uninspired days when I actually believe i Live inside a computer game.  I often find myself waking waiting to enter this virtual world.  If this sounds like you then ryzom is a must for you.

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Not only is this "just a biased unevidenced opinion", it is an ignorant, personal attack on virtually every registered member of this site. Why not change "Ryzom" to "MMORPGs" and put your post after every post on every forum of this site?

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Originally posted by Neas

P.S anyone can do this. Its just a biased unevidenced opinion and shouldn't even be bothered posting. 

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Isn't that just a biased unevidenced opinion?

When responding to a question about if something is "good", the whole concept can only be subjective and therefore a matter of opinion. The way I saw best to answer such a question (which was not asking for a long description of the game) was to descibe the sort of people who might enjoy Ryzom, as clearly some do and some don't.

Why you saw that as being a "biased" opinion, makes little sense to me, when you ignored comments such as "This game sucks..." and "If you wanna get really bored with a game that has hardly any content" which hardly describe Ryzom's gaming experience or give any indication of what they disliked about the game. Is an opinion only "biased" when you disagree with it?

Unfortunately, the post I wrote a few days ago which went into some depth about some of the aspects of Ryzom, vanished when this site lost a few days of database changes, however, I would be glad to expand on the points I made earlier in this thread...

Ryzom has a strong back story and in-depth lore and players with a good imagination will find it easier to immerse themselves in the story and are the ones more likely to enjoy the game and stick around.

Atys is a large, beautiful and dangerous world. There are plenty of places to explore and things to learn about the world. Even after well over a year of play, one can still be discovering new things. There are lots of interesting creatures each with different behaviour and migration patterns meaning that by spending time learning about them, a player can know the best methods for fighting different beasts or the ideal seasons to travel in certain regions. If you want to craft the best items, you will need to discover the ideal recipes and also learn where to find the best materials, whether they are made from the body parts of certain creatures or the place, weather and season they can be dug up. A player who has a sense of discovery may well love all of these aspects.

Other than for the tutorial, Ryzom is not a quest driven game where you follow a story that is laid out for you. There are hundreds of (mostly pretty basic) missions, but you can choose which you want to do and which NPCs to do them for. You choose your own path and set your own goals. Some call this freedom, some call it lack of content, but if you expect a game to give you direction and tell you what to do, there's a good chance you will find Ryzom dull.

These are of course still my own "biased unevidenced opinions", but I hope they might give people looking for such a game an idea of if it might be something they want to have a look at.

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Originally posted by Neas

 Maybe this is why your game is dead/.

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And talking  about "biased unevidenced opinions"....

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Originally posted by Archaos
How childish. You people act like robotix is attacking your religion. He just stated his opinion of ryzom and your first reaction is to insult him? This whole thread is sad. I didn't care much for ryzom either. I must be an "uncreative pleb."

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Originally posted by GRIMACHU

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Originally posted by Archaos
How childish. You people act like robotix is attacking your religion. He just stated his opinion of ryzom and your first reaction is to insult him? This whole thread is sad. I didn't care much for ryzom either. I must be an "uncreative pleb."

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Quite possibly yes.
Perhaps you'd be better off with static media?

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Delightful. You've zinged me. Congratulations. Instead of being pulled down to your level, I think I'm going to leave. Please enjoy the remainder of this thread in my absence.

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Originally posted by Archaos
How childish. You people act like robotix is attacking your religion. He just stated his opinion of ryzom and your first reaction is to insult him? This whole thread is sad. I didn't care much for ryzom either. I must be an "uncreative pleb."

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If Robotix had just stated his opinion on the game, I think the reaction would have been quite different. What was actually implied was that those who enjoy Ryzom, enjoy being bored, at least that's how I perceived it. To say "personally, I found the game boring" would have been vastly different and less insulting to the current player base and highly unlikely to provoke that kind of reaction.

Then you start your post with insults and are put out when they come back at you?

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Originally posted by GRIMACHU
You left yourself open to it.

Look.

MMORPGs stem from RPG roots, they've forgotten a lot of what made/makes tabletop RPGs great and substituted things contrary to the model that makes them a less satisfying experience but one of the things that crosses the boundary is the satisfaction of making your own way in whatever world has been created, putting your own spin on it. That's more important than what power you get at level 62 or what the optimum warrior 'build' is. If you don't get that, you've missed the point of the 'RPG' bit. You get out what you put in, if you'd rather be spoonfed there's plenty of options but don't come in slagging or you'll get slapped.

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Grim, I don't know why you seem to have a problem with anyone who says Ryzom is lacking content. It's true. It lacks what most games have, ie. "traditional content". I know there is a strong RP aspect in Ryzom, and that's good (I'm actually a RPer in MMOs), but stop comparing it to tabletop RPGs. They are completely different formats. I've played (and RPed in) lots of MMOs and lots of tabletop so I think I can tell the difference.

In Ryzom (or any MMO even) there's no GM to craft the world around your group of characters. (I know you'll say the Ring is like the GM, but it's barely even usable at this point so it doesn't count) There's usually little to no impact on the MMO gameworld, where in tabletop you can affect everything (with GM permission). In Ryzom there's nothing more than generic, repeatable missions, where in tabletop the GM can have any number of things happen, hooking you into scenarios, or even letting you go explore the ruins the local townsfolk spoke of.

MMOs are NOT like tabletop. They share minor similarities, that's it. And Ryzom is no different. Sure you can do whatever you want, but how is that like a tabletop RPG? When was the last time the characters went hunting for wolves/spiders/dragons/etc. so that they could make a piece of armour or craft a sword? Cause that's all I there seems to do in Ryzom. Different creatures, but the same thing nonetheless.

The only game out there that is even close to tabletop is NWN. And that requires a good DM (or multiple DMs, like in a PW) to make it work. Only then can they make the players feel like their characters are making a impact on the gameworld. Perhaps once the Ryzom Ring allows people to host scenarios without having to be online it'll be a closer approximation of tabletop. But then, it'll still be an /approximation/.

Tabletop is dynamic. MMOs are static. There's no way you can compare the two.

Flame on!

Originally posted by RevMrBlack

Grim, I don't know why you seem to have a problem with anyone who says Ryzom is lacking content. It's true.

Because it isn't true.

It lacks what most games have, ie. "traditional content". I know there is a strong RP aspect in Ryzom, and that's good (I'm actually a RPer in MMOs), but stop comparing it to tabletop RPGs. They are completely different formats. I've played (and RPed in) lots of MMOs and lots of tabletop so I think I can tell the difference.

The difference is that MMOs make a huge number of mistakes, introduce PvP into a game type that doesn't really do it very well and haven't learned from 30 years of tabletop games. Yes. it does lack meaningless repeatable 'Quests' but this is a bonus, not something that takes away from the game. The game advances through live events, invasions and player interaction which is far more dynamic and interesting than any amount of what passes for content in standard MMOs.

They did make the mistake of thinking PvP was 'infinite cheap content' though, same as pretty much every other MMO has.

n Ryzom (or any MMO even) there's no GM to craft the world around your group of characters. (I know you'll say the Ring is like the GM, but it's barely even usable at this point so it doesn't count) There's usually little to no impact on the MMO gameworld, where in tabletop you can affect everything (with GM permission). In Ryzom there's nothing more than generic, repeatable missions, where in tabletop the GM can have any number of things happen, hooking you into scenarios, or even letting you go explore the ruins the local townsfolk spoke of.

The GM in this case is the devs and the 'GMs' and CSRs. There should be feedback back and forth and adjustment of the gameworld. That's why these are interactive media. Yes, the missions in Ryzom are repeatable but they're also more like day-to-day tasks than quests, so this isn't as jarring as, say, WoW's quests. You're looking in the wrong place. You SHOULD be looking at the guide events, the player events, the Ring scenarios and the encyclopaedia missions.

MMOs are NOT like tabletop. They share minor similarities, that's it. And Ryzom is no different. Sure you can do whatever you want, but how is that like a tabletop RPG? When was the last time the characters went hunting for wolves/spiders/dragons/etc. so that they could make a piece of armour or craft a sword? Cause that's all I there seems to do in Ryzom. Different creatures, but the same thing nonetheless.

The one stems from the other, but there's been some translation errors which is why most MMOs are extremely unsatisfying and overrun with people who'd probably be better off playing counterstrike. Of the genuine MMOs Ryzom comes the closest to providing RPG satisfaction.

Tabletop is dynamic. MMOs are static. There's no way you can compare the two.

As I said, Ryzom's plot advances through live events and special events, not empty meaningless quests. It's here you can make an impact and a name for yourself and those events ARE dynamic.

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Originally posted by GRIMACHU
The difference is that MMOs make a huge number of mistakes, introduce PvP into a game type that doesn't really do it very well and haven't learned from 30 years of tabletop games. Yes. it does lack meaningless repeatable 'Quests' but this is a bonus, not something that takes away from the game. The game advances through live events, invasions and player interaction which is far more dynamic and interesting than any amount of what passes for content in standard MMOs. They did make the mistake of thinking PvP was 'infinite cheap content' though, same as pretty much every other MMO has.

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I know you really dislike PvP, but remember, that's your view. Everyone has their own opinion, and MMOs don't have to cater to just one type of player.

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The GM in this case is the devs and the 'GMs' and CSRs. There should be feedback back and forth and adjustment of the gameworld. That's why these are interactive media. Yes, the missions in Ryzom are repeatable but they're also more like day-to-day tasks than quests, so this isn't as jarring as, say, WoW's quests. You're looking in the wrong place. You SHOULD be looking at the guide events, the player events, the Ring scenarios and the encyclopaedia missions.

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It's true, player events can be an exciting thing and allow the player to feel like they are affecting the gameworld, but they don't count towards an MMO having content. Plus, the whole experience can be cheapened when the mobs simply respawn (assuming the event was to kill/capture/whatever some creature/NPC. There are many more types of events, but that's the only one the game has any mechanics for. Otherwise people are just standing around typing. You might as well use MSN/ICQ/etc. for that)

As for encyclopedia missions, I never was able to find any, so I can't see how that is content, or how it allows the player to affect the gameworld.

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The one stems from the other, but there's been some translation errors which is why most MMOs are extremely unsatisfying and overrun with people who'd probably be better off playing counterstrike. Of the genuine MMOs Ryzom comes the closest to providing RPG satisfaction.

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As for the Counterstrike comment, yes, there are quite a few undesirables in MMOs today. Mostly due to WoW. But you can't really blame them. MMOs are just the combat part of an RPG, and as these players simply want to run around killing stuff, it suits them fine. It's more the people like me who expect far more from an MMO who don't belong. What I expect from a genre with "RPG" in its name, is far more than MMOs currently present. I think MMOs whould be called "MMOGs", strip out the "RP". There's barely a sense of RP in them, aside from the classes and levels I mentioned before.

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As I said, Ryzom's plot advances through live events and special events, not empty meaningless quests. It's here you can make an impact and a name for yourself and those events ARE dynamic.

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All I heard was an NPC won a vote and became a new race's leader. Wooooo ...

Again, keep the tabletop references for the table. MMOs are games. Nothing more. Treat them as such.

Originally posted by RevMrBlack All I heard was an NPC won a vote and became a new race's leader. Wooooo ...

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Again, keep the tabletop references for the table. MMOs are games. Nothing more. Treat them as such.