| 97 posts found | ||
|---|---|---|
|
12/07/06 6:21:43 PM#41
Exactly =\ The avarage people is stupid and thats just the way it is. Not that knowing a lot is good, Ive had my fair share of deceptions...sometimes ignorance can be a bliss, but its just sad beign stupid. Anyway, topics for another debate. Its like products designed for class C-D people, they can make way more money than "elite" products. Masses sometimes = win. Which doesnt really translates into quality, on the contrary.. Although WoW did accomplish some stuff, it has its merits, but in the end its just "meh". |
||
|
12/07/06 6:24:44 PM#42
Well simple is pretty much what attracted people to the game, package
an incredibly simple to play game inside a colorful pretty world,
simply to attract the graphic whores, with an allready proven game
system pretty much taken directly from EQ.
Blizz simply pulled the best things from the genre of MMO's rather than risk trying something new, which has shown by many other games to be a terribly risky venture. The end result imho though is akin to going from playing some awesome pen and paper roleplaying game to "Choose-Your-Own" adventure dvd's cause its got pretty pictures. WoW has at best of times very standerd pvp, many other games have provided both more rewarding and immersive pvp elements. The pve content is very limited, in less than a year my 60 priest has done every single quest that was available to her, lets compare that to EQ for a minute. Hmm...ok there are more quests FOUND in the Basic EQ than in wow with horde and alliance combined and more than 30% of the games content in EQ (items quests story) is still undiscovered. Its sad to say that a game could be called great if everything its has to offer can be discovered and completed in the span of 9 short months. Is WoW bad game, god no, but it is a rehash of allready used mechanics inside a pretty shell. Its saving grace was its simple gameplay, WAY simpler than EQ2, and i tihnk that is the 1 and only thing that truely drove the games success. Most players i have seen that have emerged during the age of WOW are seriously put off by real challanges and dont have any true drive to overcome them, waiting on someone else to devise a strat or find a high level to do it for them, or skipping it completly On the bright side with BC coming out all the silly lil noob players that suddenly became MMORPG players with wow will stay for the expansion allowing the actual gamers to head out into a few of the newer games which have more game content in the starting city than in all of WoW. |
||
|
12/07/06 6:48:59 PM#43
Don't know why anyone would regard it as dumb, it is just simplified and made more accessible. So what it doesn't have a steep learning curve, it still can be quite fun. Just if you want a more in-depth game, or more challenging one you have to find something else. |
||
|
12/07/06 6:51:05 PM#44
Bah wow was succesfull before they even started making it,
the HUGE fun base of warcraft and starcraft loved blizzard and all thier story driven games. How many of you played the WC3 and WC3:FT 3 or 4 times just to experience all that storyline again? And yes all they did, was take the best from MMORPGS without innovating(a chance to actually go wrong) and make a game where quests are so irrelevent that if you change the storyline of WOW to contradict one of the quests, noone would even notice. Tumbs up for blizzard for expanding the MMORPG gamer market for us, now all turn your heads to Vanguard, as it is going to move WoW off it's pedistal(ones people hit 70 with BC and will look for something better). |
||
|
12/07/06 7:04:20 PM#45
We're talking about something that is piece of entertainment. And entertainment is very subjective. But the art-movie snob analogy for hardcore gamers iis completely accurate. I don't really care if an arrogant movie critic thinks some tedious, black and white film spoken in Russian is the greatest film ever. If no one wants to see it, if most people who do see it think it's garbage, then it will be lost and forgotten regardless if some tiny percentage of viewers think otherwise. In the end, games are like movies. A game that fails to entertain most of the people who try to play it isn't a success and the company that made it will suffer for it. MMORPGs are at last entering the world of real gaming numbers instead of only existing in a little niche market. Frankly, it's past time the MMMORPG genre grows up and evolve the way single-player games have evolved over the last decade. MMORPG's have been stagnant following the tired old UO and EQ models that only a small percentage of gamers ever found entertaining (and based on the amount of complaints from those same players over the years, one wonders how entertaining those games really were even for them) The MMORPGS for the 21st century will entertain far more gamers, because they will be better designed, better-made and based on better game play. The art-snobs types will cling to the old ways, refusing to see the inevitable change, they'll say this is a step backward never seeing that they're the ones who have always held the genre back in the first place. |
||
|
12/07/06 8:08:03 PM#46
For all the explanations on why WoW is so bad lets take the best thing from WOW. The combat.
Do I want all these ideas that the so-called "hardcore" gamers wants, absolutley. However it seems like every game that I try with these ideas (SWG, EQ2 etc...) the combat really sucks. If some developer will just put a combat system in like WoW with the player housing and all the other fun stuff, the will probably get my money. |
||
|
12/07/06 8:12:45 PM#47
This was the first editorial on mmorpg.com that actually hurt to read. Poorly written and executed. -Ashyn Edited: Was not trying to be a prick with the comment,it just was not one of the better editorials. Mr. Wilson may have had a bad day. I think it lacked clarity on some points and maybe would have been written better on a different day. |
||
|
12/07/06 8:15:54 PM#48
" The art-snobs types will cling to the old ways, refusing
to see the inevitable change, they'll say this is a step backward never
seeing that they're the ones who have always held the genre back in the
first place. "
I have to disagree on this point, i agreed with what you were saying about how video games are like other entertainment, and movies were the perfect anology, but on this point i must say that most players look for intricate games, that include alot. Games such as WoW are one timers, the only thing you can improve on is the story and graphics. The problem is with the MMORPG genre, is that you can't really improve on the story without completely changing the way the game plays. Thats why the MMORPG universe is growing, people are starting to see the potential stored within just waiting to be unlocked. Although you may be right about some companies copying what WoW did, it will get boring very fast, i mean if you play the MMO for its pve and storyline just go play a single player. Bottom line is that MMORPG's are still in their youth, and it will be a very long time before pvp and community, the parts that set MMO's apart, grow. SWG is a prime example of a game way ahead of its time...precu of course...and yes it did have its bugs, but it also gave the player tons of possibilites. People play MMORPG's, or at least i do, to live in another world and live out your dreams. And thats what games like SWG do, they allow you to do almost everything and it wasn't complicated, i only played a few hours during the week and a few hours on the weekend and i had the most fun ever. I tried WoW and immediatly got bored with it, because of the limits that are placed on you, I felt like i was a slave to Blizzard which technically i was. I mean Blizzard obviously made a choice of cutting down on content to have an easy to run game for them, i.e. very few bugs and not much combat to balance. But they also sacrificed all the content that could've been there  .Bottom Line: All players are looking for lots of content with simply Interface, and so don't make stupid generalities that make no sense what-so-ever. And don't tell me that players aren't looking for content, just use your imagination and think about if you had the power to make a game and what you would put into it, and i mean really use your imagination and be original!  http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Tabatron/Fading-SWGEMU.gif |
||
|
12/07/06 8:19:51 PM#49
"Most players do not have their ego tied up in achievement, in games at least."
That alone proves he must not play very often in ANY MMO or MMORPG In the shadows for now.... |
||
|
12/07/06 8:30:12 PM#50
Ok, i have to respond to this one!!!!!! SWG had good combat, think about it!, I played precu and i remember people complaining and whining, "mommy the TKA kicked my butt and he looks cool" or " help me mommy the Rifleman killed me" and then suddenly people would master polarm and heavy swordsman and suddenly it would be "o no the polarm killed me!" or "the swordsman killed me" After they died they would cry, "NERF NERF NERF!!!". The reality was that there were some weaknesses and strengths but they weren't that much different. And the diversity of the combat proffessions made it so that there was really no way to compare them since they had so many different strengths and weaknesses, and if you looked at combat there was always a way to counter another proffession.But the biggest downfall to WoW combat is the items and equipment. THey aren't player crafted and this pisses me off, it means that players have no power with items...again Blizzard is trying to control the game and ensure they don't embarass themselves...it also means that money really isn't worth the same as in a game like SWG where money and player trading was the only way to get good. NOt to mention that WoW, and almost every other MMO out there, has a sucky healer system. I think that SWG had it right, where a doctor could craft meds and heal and stuff, but i also think that the doctor and combat medic should be two different careers But i will agree with the second part about combat housing and othere stuff. I just dont' like it when people complain about precu SWG combat, because that was the best combat i have ever seen in a game, and crafting was part of the reason why it was soo good, it diversified it. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Tabatron/Fading-SWGEMU.gif |
||
|
12/07/06 9:05:03 PM#51
Ballsy editorial, considering that so few of the folks that frequent this site were likley to "get" it. And indeed, it seems that few that bothered to respond did. My hat off to you sir
 I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us. |
||
|
12/07/06 9:40:06 PM#52
I agree with some of the editorial but I don't agree with his comments as to casuals at 60. There is little non-raid non-pvp stuff to do. Blizzard has been slowly nudging the game to World of Raidcraft for many months now. Crafting at 60 requires items or recipes dropped from raid areas, essentially forcing the "casual" to raid if he wants to maximize his 300 skill in <whatever>. So the "will explore areas I couldn't before" argument really doesn't hold much weight. I do agree that WoW did show that a more simplified relaxed game can be very profitable. Before the mentality was time sinks to keep them playing, raid mobs to kill them several times before they get anything and slower leveling curve. Well written regardless. |
||
|
12/07/06 10:20:52 PM#53
This is actually a pretty "dumb" article that attempts to put one opinion against others. Some like it....some love it...some hate it...some call it dumb. Such is what makes the world go around. This article would be accurate when read by the vast majority of WOW subscribers....however it would be inaccurate to those that played and quit because they want something different. It's like saying A western MMO is better than a fantasy MMO. Well...obviously that is completely subjective. To quote the guy "I'm glad WoW went with the more entertaining option." To respond...in your opinion and probably about 4-5 million subscribers. However, many that quit and many that still play are looking forward to something else when it does eventually come out.
|
||
|
12/07/06 10:23:33 PM#54
P.S. Some people think Tetris is a dumb game.
|
||
|
12/07/06 10:29:21 PM#55
If it were not for those cartoony graphics (and now raiding ) in WoW I'd prolly be there among the 6 million. : ) Spiritglow |
||
|
12/07/06 11:09:46 PM#56
what makes WOW dumb are DUMB people who make articles about MMORPGS while have no idea what that really means and try to defened the "dumb" wow as a super cool new MMORPG.
|
||
|
12/07/06 11:14:21 PM#57
"WoW has also appropriately done away with stat management, one of the
most useless conventions carried over from pen and paper games."
I disagree with this opinion. I find stat management to be one of the best ways to give meaningful custimization to a character with the most interesting results. I agree that custimization on a cosmetic level is fairly overrated, but to say that stat management is useless makes no sense. It means the difference between offensive or defensive styles, it means choosing to make a glass-cannon or an off-beat hybrid just to see if it works. It means an increased sense of ownership and control over a playstyle, which results in more fun. The min/max crowd gets to tweek, the RP crowd gets to customize, the PvE and PvP crowds get to manage spec groups, and the casuals get to play. This generally means more fun, even WoW players enjoy it to the extent allowed through the talent trees(they didn't totally do away with it). As long as there are mechanisms in place to rectify mistakes fairly painlessly, I've found that stat management becomes at least a quarter of the fun of playing a game. |
||
|
12/08/06 12:06:50 AM#58
I personally feel WoW did a lot of things right, but just as many things wrong. Some of which I will not go over because they were talked about in the article, such as death penalty, and some are talked about all the time in forums, such as gear.
But the problem I find with WoW is the lack of depth. I have a level 60 of every character, most are at least outfitted with the dungeon 1 set, a couple with the dungeon 2 set, and 2 with tier 2, and 2 with tier 1. I quit for good when Naxx came out and I did not want to do another raid instance grind. The problem I had with WoW, is that there were so few classes, and with the classes so little depth. I made 1 of a class, I didnt want to do it again, even on the other side, why do it again? There was no real discernable difference between my undead mage and if I had rolled an alliance mage. So why? Also there was no other way to make my character better than doing the raid instances. People like to talk about how getting the gear is work and they should be rewarded bla bla bla. Well I will tell you that when I got my rogue decked out in tier 2 and a couple of asinine daggers, which I forgot (I guess I could look up what I had but I am too lazy), PvP go so easy it got boring. I literally ran around stealthed 1 shotting clothies. I had a butt ton of health and it took almost as long to kill my rogue as it did my pally when she was still in dungeon 1 set. I literally lost any skill I had with the class because I no longer needed to be on the top of my game. This really showed when I actually came up against a team that was as well geared as my guild. I couldnt believe how sloppy and pathetic I had gotten, it was really sad and I was actually ashamed of myself. WoW 1 - 60 was a blast I will admit, the first couple of times through on each side that is. But doing the same instances for a .000000000001% chance of a drop then rolling on it, or bidding on it just got stupid. Then it wasnt fun anymore, the funny thing is Blizz spent all that time making BWL, Naxx, and AQ 40 and how much of the playerbase has actually seen it? What a waste of development time, time they could have spent making the game as a whole, especially the PvP better. Edit - Also there is nothing good out for MMOs. Once we start seeing some of the newer "promising" MMOs come out we will see how well Blizz does. I am talking about the NA and European market, I think Blizz will keep big numbers because their end game grind leans heavily toward the asian style of play. So I think Blizz will keep millions of asians in the asian markets playing, but I am interested in seeing what happens with NA and Europe. Kinda funny they stopped giving out the break ups of the numbers by regions a while back when people started to really complain about the end game grind. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. |
||
|
12/08/06 12:21:11 AM#59
Different needs, different products. *shrug* I guess that's just a sign the MMO market is coming to maturation, which is just a good thing to any fan of the genre.
To me, the whole thing is an non-issue for now. If it ever comes to the point that every MMO is the same, or cater to the same (casual) audience, then I'll be worried. However, refering to the movie industry, while Hollywood is big and fat and all-emcompassing, there are still lots of independants and fringe producers giving us the movie diversity we need and crave for. Can both co-exist ? Definitely -- and the market has proven it. As long as people will encourage/sustain alll those types of products, they will thrive. Fyrr Deerdan - Capsuleer of all trades |
||
|
12/08/06 1:37:44 AM#60
Dude what cave did you just crawl out of??? All of these forums are basically debating gladatorial arenas to begin with...i.e. pitting one opinion against another. So, get over it already...not to mention it's the job of the one writing the editorial to spark controversy and discussion. Hence, why you and everyone else responded. 
|
||
