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DeserttFoxx
 Advanced Member
Joined: 5/11/04
Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war. Si vis pacem, para bellum |
11/23/06 1:38:36 PM#61
I like this article. I feel that new mmos should start pushing for a slider system when it comes to character creation. Its time to get rid of the whole "Ideal" man and woman and let players create whatever they want. We still belive the ideal man and woman is what we see in games now but in all honesty, the gamer hasnt been given the option to make much else, never given the option to make a tall, short, fat or skinny. Farthest games go is usually old or young. Hopefully new MMOs will go that extra mile and stray away from preset body types and allow players more freedom when it comes to their character, and lets see if everyone finds the same look appealing when given the chance to do more. Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson |
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11/23/06 6:19:56 PM#62
Has everyone lost sight of reality...or lack of reality. These are games, an escape. From the beginning of recorded history the heros and gods of stories were described as "perfect", "handsome", "beutiful". If Homer had to worry about how it would be thought of politically when he wrote about Aphrodite or Helen of Troy, the Odessy would have never been written. Egyptian hieroglyphs portrayed the people as physically perfect, this was their writing. Comic books have always portrayed their heros as better than perfect. If you think back on most fiction books, the protagonist is rarely "ugly" and the antagonist is many times portayed as less than perfect in the physical department. Why? Because people want, and have always wanted, to take themselves out of reality for a while, escape and enjoy themselves. Political correctness is making us question everything, down to our entertainment, it's a shame we can't just enjoy what is in front of us for what it is without stamping it politically correct, incorrect, offensive, sexist, demeaning, or whatever else. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
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kspada
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/03/05
A Ship in Harbor is safe, but that''s not why Ships are built... |
11/23/06 9:34:13 PM#63
I personally go into the game world as a fun escape from reality just like alot of other people do. I usually don't spend alot of time looking closely at other peoples' avatars, I usually do look more at the armor they have and the weapon they wield. That being said, I do however like to look pretty in the game world as far as hairstyle, skin, facial and body features go because it is just another part of the fantasy fun. I am female in RL and average looking and yes I would love to look like Angelina Jolie, but it isn't happening lol. So when I am in the fantasy realm I would like to look like the fantasy me. If other people don't like it thats fine, its what I think of it that counts. Fantasy game = Fantasy avatar = fun for me. This is just my opinion. I don't see it as being sexist in any way, just plain fantasy fun.
Aspire to Inspire before you Expire... |
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RainStar
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/08/05
I will always miss pre-CU but I still enjoy the game. |
11/24/06 5:34:23 AM#64
Korvass brings up a good point here, it's not always about the physical aspects of how a person looks, it's also the way they dress that draws a person's attention. The only difference I see in how I interact in game with scruffy looking guys or scantily clad females is that I'm more tolerant of them ( depending on how they act) than those I see in real life. |
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11/24/06 6:26:58 AM#65
Here is a new concept why not make the character Fully customisable that way we can all make our char our own fantasy person weight height and so on you will find most will choose to make their selves with abs of steel buns of steel yet not so overly skinny that one feels like a spokes model for some magazine or a sex idol there are a few but most of mens that ive met worry more about their male anotomy which isnt ever protreyed in games that height but thats just my opinion and we all have one and our own just a thought
Kattria Floret Majestas(Let Majesty Flourish) |
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11/24/06 10:02:18 PM#66
yeah in ryzom you can make huge breasts, or board breasts, you can also make l;arge chars in the waist or skinny rails, you can also make the faces really fraky or really pretty, i like a well rounded option to my toons
playing eq2 and two worlds |
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Beatnik59
 Novice Member
Joined: 11/23/05
"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977." Now Playing: |
11/25/06 12:37:17 AM#67
I'm not so sure. Men are about three times more likely than women to die in their teens to mid-twenties and the two leading causes of death in these cases are suicide, and accidents. Which is, ironically, the same demographic that encompasses most of the MMORPG gaming public. Now don't mistake me for Thompson. I'm not saying that violence in video games causes violent death, and suicide. What I am saying though is that violence, danger, and hazardous lifestyle choices is a large part of what society says is "masculine." We praise heroes on the screen and TV who use violence, or participate in violence, and come back unharmed, who are almost always male. We praise heroes who fight and die in the line of duty, like police, fire, and military, who are almost always male. Girls dig the guys in fast cars or bikes who race on back roads. Remember the song, "you have to be a football hero to get along with the beautiful gals?" It is because the culture somehow thinks it is appropriate for men to kill themselves, and eachother to make people happy, and it is not a suprise that that young men and teens are killing themselves, and eachother in disproportionally large numbers. Working to death for respect, hazarding death for respect, and causing death for respect. It seems to me that the male sexism in the MMOs has less to do with the avatars, and more to do with the things the avatars do: which are generally, fight, kill, and die. It seems almost every MMO is centered around the expectation that young men will be doing these things, most likely to eachother, which is a misrepresentation. Young men and teen men do fight, kill, and die in larger proportions than others, but perhaps that is due to the fact that the culture equates violence with masculinity, and peacefulness with weakness. The truth be told though is that the vast majority of men are not as violent as the culture makes them out to be, and like to build, rather than destroy. Violence is a last resort in men, and not a first response. Yet we have a disproportionate emphasis on destruction in MMOs, and an underemphasis on things like tradeskills, crafting, and other things that help build virtual communities. Again, don't mistake me for Thompson. I am not saying that the game violence causes real violence. What I am saying is that the MMO genre exploits cheap generalizations of masculinity just as it exploits cheap generalizations of female stereotypes. It is just that when feminists look at sexism, they have the tendency to see it in terms of the avatars only, and not what the avatars are actually doing. However, I would argue that the stereotypical portrayal of masculinity is just as strongly asserted, and can be equally detrimental, if not moreso in the case of young men. __________________________ "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." |
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11/25/06 4:22:26 PM#68
Not to sound offensive or anything but doesnt the author of this article seem gay?
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11/26/06 3:02:26 PM#69
This was a very good article and I"m not going to dispute anything said in it. I totally agree that the males and females are both idealized in games and that it's not really a bad thing. I do, however, think the writer missed a big point of why so many think that sexism is blatant in the characters, not by body build, but by how they are dressed.
In too many RPG's and MMO's, the female of a certain character class is outfitted in a bikini top and thong while the male of the same class is covered from neck to toe. I've had this very discussion with many gamers and the biggest complaint is not the big boobs, but the clothing/armor itself being so blatantly obvious who the game is being marketted for. |
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11/26/06 7:55:21 PM#70
Great article. I agree that men are affected by it too, however, not on the same level as women are. I have been playing MMORPGs and MMOs for numerous years and I've witnessed first-hand the sexism that runs rampant within the game and forum scope countless times. Which females are "hawt" and which ones are "nawt"... and God forbid if the owner of a "hawt" in-game avatar posts an actual pic of herself in the "Real Life Pic" thread and is less than what was expected.... she is branded, ignored and even shunned by the men. Men seem to be "lured" into believing that what they are seeing is what they are actually getting.... sort of like phone sex... they see a pretty, sexy image on a web site, they fall into some sort of fantasy world, and truly believe that the heavyset housewife that is eating doughnuts while they are talking is the same person. Look, lady's night in clubs sells, girls gone wild sells, phone sex sells, porn sells, and sexism in the game world sells, point blank, and it is geared for men and to draw men in. NOT women. Truth is, a guy can post a pic of his "real" self in a game forum with his hair standing on end, pimples from forehead to chin, and his eyes looking in opposite directions and he is somehow accepted regardless... however, let a female post a pic that shows the fact that she weighs a tad more than 100 lbs. and looks like an average person, and she is either branded mufugly or even ignored... I have even witnessed females that post pics of someone else that looks "hawt" rather than face the scrutiny and rejection of her in-game "friends". I don't care what anyone says, it is the truth, and I know it to be so from observing. If the in-game world of MMOs and MMORPGs were real, I know that it is probable that most everyone would have muscles from swinging swords and axes and running on foot everywhere, however, I also KNOW beyond the shadow of any doubt that ALL women would NOT be "hawt", have big breasts, small waists and tight asses, wear makeup and revealing clothing with their ass cracks, vaginas and cleavage exposed. So, I do agree that women AND men are victims of sexism in MMORPGs, however, NOT in the same way.
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11/26/06 8:18:20 PM#71
It's very true.
Playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic Waiting For: Guild Wars 2, sort of. |
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11/26/06 10:01:09 PM#72
Mystiqué speaks true. There is a big difference between how male and female gamers are accepted in the community.
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11/27/06 2:05:09 AM#73
Well I don’t agree It’s a simple fact that there are less female players then male ones. Some give a darn about there appearance and others get picks form porn sites to deceive the male players. More then half of the players are in there puberty and live there sexual lives in magazines and porn from the net. I'm married with a normal woman and I’m on the fat side of the social ideal (the good cooking skills :)). I really don’t feel inferior to the Brad Pit's out there. So do you take offence when a punk of -22 j makes fun of your irl photo? I really don’t.
There are girls that make fun of male irl photo's to but thy are not vocal about it, they just use there porn photo's to get the male's to give items and gold.
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11/27/06 3:23:25 AM#74
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It’s a simple fact that there are less female players then male ones. Very true, and why do you suppose that is?
Some give a darn about there appearance and others get picks form porn sites to deceive the male players. THAT is a sexist remark if I ever heard one....
So do you take offence when a punk of -22 j makes fun of your irl photo?
There are girls that make fun of male irl photo's to but thy are not vocal about it
they just use there porn photo's to get the male's to give items and gold.
Face it Coldhaert, the bottom-line is that sex sells... and according to your own words, "there are less female players than male ones" you are only proving the point. Game manufacturers are using women and sexism to lure men into the game. |
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11/27/06 4:54:49 AM#75
I have had 3 cases where i knowe its a girl that uses here gender to get gold items and influence in a game. Females dont like violance and thats why they ar not attracted to MMO's (exept the Sims) If there where more mmo's about romance, dressing and fluffyness you would see more femails. And on a side note about sexist remarks. Its a sexist remak to say that you want post photos of yourself becose men will drool over them. Even more so when you say all or most males are perverts. My wife playes MMO's and out of expiriance i can tell you that gifts ar flying around her head. So in a way you can be sure that unknowingly you have the advantage over men. i agree that sex sels but it gows both ways :)
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11/27/06 9:11:24 AM#76
now that is the biggest load of ... that I've heard in a while, but not a new one mind you. I am female, married and a mother and I hate the SIMS and love FPS games. And I'm not the exception that proves the rule. I have been very active in the FPS game community for a long time and there are numerous girls and women who love playing FPS. It is your stereotypes and ignorance sir that are keeping more females from enjoying them. I will concede that you have made one valid point, there are girls who flaunt themselves to get free stuff from other players in game. This is by no means the majority though, they are the ones that are also making it harder for the rest of us. The rest of your both your posts is doing nothing to help the situation, only making it worse. You've stated yourself that more men play than women and your attitude is a big part of why not. |
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Keridwan
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/16/06
"Femmes Fatales - The Power of the Feminine in the Art of MMO" |
11/27/06 10:04:07 AM#77
actually the hard empirical research, conducted by a reputable social science research institute for a number of MMORPG producers (Sony, EA, etc) shows that 15% of all gamers are female, with an estimated 5% of female gamers deliberately not declaring their gender in surveys :)
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11/27/06 10:34:45 AM#78
First of all let me make this perfectly clear to you... I have never stated ANYWHERE in my posts that "all or most men are perverts" (sorry if I hit on a soft spot). I don't know where you saw that written, but it surely wasn't in one of my posts... so get your facts straight before you start pointing your finger and putting words in someone else's mouth. Trust me Coldhaert you were not victimized here, so stop acting like you were... at least not by me anyway... And the remark that I made about drool... you are wrong again... I never said MEN, it was a general statement. Personally, I don't think that ANYONE needs to be posting pics of themselves online, it simply isn't a good practice. Would you want your son or daughter (if you had one) posting pics of themself online? There are plenty of weirdos online and they're not all men dear... I like to play MMOs and have never complained about the violence, the ONLY thing that I complain about is the seemingly large volume of immaturity and the sexism within the communities. I don't give a rat's behind what people look like in real life, I just want to play a game without feeling self-conscious about having my breasts, ass and genitalia hanging out.... |
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11/27/06 12:48:56 PM#79
15% sure so this is still 1.5 in 10? where the .5 = an assumption? Its like i sed some women like the violance in the games others dont. Thats why i played with lil cars and gurls play with a dol. But some do play with cares and other boys might play with a doll Mystique read what you ar saying about your photograph and ppl who might look at it then you will see what assumption i can make. Eather you ar feminist or you hate yourself. Its perfectly normal for a guild to have a irl pick tread on there forums so dont give me the crap about kids jerking off at your godly photo. About immature community; In every mmo i have played there isent 1 that i can name where i could not finde a guild or playerbase that would support a mature inviroment. Ok i'm male but i often play a female chars becose i dont like to look at a male char for more then 500+h And if you have a guild who makes fun of other guildies i just have to say that you pickt the wrong guild. So i understand you girls/women/xx but i'm just saying that sex sels also gows the other way around. God damn you will not tell me that a nice pice of manly ass isent nice in your eyes :/
So quit the holly er then thow cinemathics.
(sorry for the crap english i'm from belgium ) |
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11/27/06 2:32:56 PM#80
On second thought, after seeing the "real" you finally come out into the open, perhaps you actually are a pervert after all... I never said anything about J***ing-off, YOU did. End of conversation weirdo...
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