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Originally posted by ghost047
I understand what you guys are saying, but these company should have a morale responsability. They know what will happen and they do it anyway. Following your logic, why blame Bush for the war, he is not the one doing it, soldier does, so it is the soldier fault.

Lots of people are infuence by everything and everyone, why do you think there is rating on movie and video games, because people follow these idea. I am not saying music, movie and so are to blame for all the violence in the world, but there is a logic somewhere. People are driven by money, look on this site, buying/selling currancy or level is illegal, but it is not illegal to advertise it, but this site knows it and they still do it, money=no moral.

Company have a moral resposability but they do not care because they want money. A majority of people on this site complain about those company who try to make there game like WoW because they want money, they do not care about the customer, but let blame on player because they play these game.

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I understand your point as well.

But let's take it to as small of a situation as possible. Say your mom buys a handmade cake from the grocery store, let's say Kroger's. When she takes it out of the box, it's only divided up into seven pieces, and there are eight people sitting around the table. Your Uncle Tom doesn't get a piece. He asks you for your slice and you decline. He asks your neighbor who was invited over for dinner to share his piece, and he says no. Suddenly your Uncle Tom becomes irate for no reason and stabs your neighbor with the knife used to cut the cake, grabbing the slice and running off. The police are called and your uncle is arrested.

So in this scenario, under the discussion we've been having, not only would your Uncle Tom be at fault for stabbing your neighbor, but Kroger's would be responsible for not cutting the cake into eight pieces instead of seven. Very silly, right?

Take that situation and up the ante, and you have the PS3. Sony has followed all of the laws and codes set before it, but because there aren't enough to go around we the people have broken those laws by letting greed overcome us. Supply and demand is an issue that effects nearly everything we buy and use, but it's common sense and we know better to not bludgeon the face of a Target employee when we find that there aren't any Fruit Loops boxes with the lightsaber spoon left.

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Originally posted by IdesofMarch

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Originally posted by ghost047
I understand what you guys are saying, but these company should have a morale responsability. They know what will happen and they do it anyway. Following your logic, why blame Bush for the war, he is not the one doing it, soldier does, so it is the soldier fault.

Lots of people are infuence by everything and everyone, why do you think there is rating on movie and video games, because people follow these idea. I am not saying music, movie and so are to blame for all the violence in the world, but there is a logic somewhere. People are driven by money, look on this site, buying/selling currancy or level is illegal, but it is not illegal to advertise it, but this site knows it and they still do it, money=no moral.

Company have a moral resposability but they do not care because they want money. A majority of people on this site complain about those company who try to make there game like WoW because they want money, they do not care about the customer, but let blame on player because they play these game.

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I understand your point as well.

But let's take it to as small of a situation as possible. Say your mom buys a handmade cake from the grocery store, let's say Kroger's. When she takes it out of the box, it's only divided up into seven pieces, and there are eight people sitting around the table. Your Uncle Tom doesn't get a piece. He asks you for your slice and you decline. He asks your neighbor who was invited over for dinner to share his piece, and he says no. Suddenly your Uncle Tom becomes irate for no reason and stabs your neighbor with the knife used to cut the cake(I am stoping you there, you story does not hold together, you said the cake was already in 7 pieces, so it is impossible that uncle use the same knife to cut the cake, it was already cut, haha gotcha, lol), grabbing the slice and running off. The police are called and your uncle is arrested.

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Originally posted by ghost047

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Originally posted by IdesofMarch

 

I understand your point as well.

But let's take it to as small of a situation as possible. Say your mom buys a handmade cake from the grocery store, let's say Kroger's. When she takes it out of the box, it's only divided up into seven pieces, and there are eight people sitting around the table. Your Uncle Tom doesn't get a piece. He asks you for your slice and you decline. He asks your neighbor who was invited over for dinner to share his piece, and he says no. Suddenly your Uncle Tom becomes irate for no reason and stabs your neighbor with the knife used to cut the cake(I am stoping you there, you story does not hold together, you said the cake was already in 7 pieces, so it is impossible that uncle use the same knife to cut the cake, it was already cut, haha gotcha, lol), grabbing the slice and running off. The police are called and your uncle is arrested.

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But Kroger's does not know how many people will be at the dinner, so it is impossible for them to cut them into the number of pieces required. But Mom did know how many people so she should have bought enough for everyone. But let say that Kroger's that every cake they sell will be share between 8 people and they always cut it in 7 pieces and you can only buy 1 per customer, maybe they are the one to blame.

The difference with Sony and your story is, Sony was well aware of the situation as it happen in Japan just before, they had the knowledge to prevent this. They will not hold on their PS3 and wait til they have enough because they do not want to lose the Christmas sell. They indirectly had the knowledge to prevent crimes but they ignored it for the money, they are guilty of knowing.

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Heh. Yeah, I had the knife part typed before I changed how the cake was made. Whoops. But you get what I mean. =P

If James blows a guy away and steals his limited edition Ferrari because only 10,000 were ever made in the world but hundreds of thousands of people have always wanted one, is Ferrari to blame for not manufacturing enough even though they knew this car would be desired by so many?

To make another point with an example. If I sell my car to a stranger, I'm not going to think about whether that stranger is going to take it for a joy ride and commit vehicular homicide as he runs down a crowd of elderly folks in the middle of a festival. Because once I sign the title over to him and he's all set, it's no longer my responsibility what he does with the vehicle, and frankly, I shouldn't have to worry about what he does. My car was completely safe upon purchase, and though it could be used to do harm, we can all agree that it's not the purpose of a motor vehicle. So why should I have to take responsibility for another man's actions, just because his weapon of choice is associated with me through that purchase?

A PS3 hasn't killed or harmed anyone yet. We may kill and harm each other over it, but never has it been directly involved. If being indirectly involved makes you responsible, then (for example) Melissa should take legal responsibility when her boyfriend Paul strangles her secret lover Kevin to death as she stood by in horror. Yeah, she never broke a law. However, what she did was not only morally wrong, but she knew Paul could act in a violent manner if he ever found out, so she should be punished by law as well.

All in all, Sony is selling a product. It shouldn't be their job to control our actions and make sure we don't act out of line when buying them. That's our job as individuals and members of society.

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Originally posted by IdesofMarch

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Heh. Yeah, I had the knife part typed before I changed how the cake was made. Whoops. But you get what I mean. =P

If James blows a guy away and steals his limited edition Ferrari because only 10,000 were ever made in the world but hundreds of thousands of people have always wanted one, is Ferrari to blame for not manufacturing enough even though they knew this car would be desired by so many?

To make another point with an example. If I sell my car to a stranger, I'm not going to think about whether that stranger is going to take it for a joy ride and commit vehicular homicide as he runs down a crowd of elderly folks in the middle of a festival. Because once I sign the title over to him and he's all set, it's no longer my responsibility what he does with the vehicle, and frankly, I shouldn't have to worry about what he does. My car was completely safe upon purchase, and though it could be used to do harm, we can all agree that it's not the purpose of a motor vehicle. So why should I have to take responsibility for another man's actions, just because his weapon of choice is associated with me through that purchase?

A PS3 hasn't killed or harmed anyone yet. We may kill and harm each other over it, but never has it been directly involved. If being indirectly involved makes you responsible, then (for example) Melissa should take legal responsibility when her boyfriend Paul strangles her secret lover Kevin to death as she stood by in horror. Yeah, she never broke a law. However, what she did was not only morally wrong, but she knew Paul could act in a violent manner if he ever found out, so she should be punished by law as well.

All in all, Sony is selling a product. It shouldn't be their job to control our actions and make sure we don't act out of line when buying them. That's our job as individuals and members of society.

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Originally posted by ghost047
I understand what you guys are saying, but these company should have a morale responsability. They know what will happen and they do it anyway. Following your logic, why blame Bush for the war, he is not the one doing it, soldier does, so it is the soldier fault.

Lots of people are infuence by everything and everyone, why do you think there is rating on movie and video games, because people follow these idea. I am not saying music, movie and so are to blame for all the violence in the world, but there is a logic somewhere. People are driven by money, look on this site, buying/selling currancy or level is illegal, but it is not illegal to advertise it, but this site knows it and they still do it, money=no moral.

Company have a moral resposability but they do not care because they want money. A majority of people on this site complain about those company who try to make there game like WoW because they want money, they do not care about the customer, but let blame on player because they play these game.

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Originally posted by ghost047

 

We can go on and on with different exemple. What I am saying is, they knew it could happen, because it happened the week before. If you sell your car to a guy and you know he commit homicide with it or if it is not the first time Paul strangle a guy because Melissa was cheating on him, they are still in some way resposible because they knew it might happen. If a gun seller sells a gun to a guy and he know he might kill someone with it, it is his morale resposability not to sell the gun.

I am just saying that with the knowledge Sony had, they could of prevent this chaos over the PS3.

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So you're saying I'd be legally responsible for someone committing vehicular homicide in a vehicle that was under their name and title and I had no more legal ties to whatsoever? Melissa is legally repsonsible for being a whore, since she never broke a single law in any of her actions?

Sony is a corporation. It's their job to design, manufacture, and sell you their products. Not to protect you from yourself and others. If you expect a large business to take the moral or ethical high ground in any matter then I don't know what to tell you.

Again, Sony didn't do anything directly. It's the actions of people that caused the chaos. The PS3 isn't the force that gets anyone to enter fistfights or rob a store. It is simply a reason, but we make the final decision and we have the final say in what we do and how we do it. People decided on their own that they wanted this product so bad that they'd go to extremes to get their hands on it. They supplied the product and we the consumers took things too far.

There's nothing to prevent Sony from not doing something that's completely legal (launching a console is rather straightforward and has been done time and again) so why they should have prevented it? Like I've said before, at the end of the day it's not one bit their duty or job to make sure you don't break the law.

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Originally posted by IdesofMarch

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Sony is a corporation. It's their job to design, manufacture, and sell you their products. Not to protect you from yourself and others. If you expect a large business to take the moral or ethical high ground in any matter then I don't know what to tell you.

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The sad thing about it is in a couple of years all this will be a thing of the past.  Ppl getting shot for a system and in 3-4 years youll find used for 20 bucks at stores.  I never understood why they only make a limited amount of systems knowing that the demand is high.  They know they more systems they make the more profit they get, but it seems that they only use it as a marketing tool to get more ppl interested.

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Originally posted by srohek
Second of all Sony is NOT making anymore money by minimizing available units. Yes, the demand is high, and the value goes up due to limited supply, but Sony doesn't GAIN from this. It's the consumers to decide to RESELL it who wins, NOT SONY.

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My friend that is where you are wrong.  All of the hype caused by the resale, the stabbings, the gun shot wounds, the fools who sleep on the sidewalk over night just to get one of these machines - does give Sony gain - better gain then advertising during the Superbowl.  Its called - FREE ADVERTISING - and whether it be good or bad - its all free - and it gets their name out there more and more and more - at no cost to them.

Yes - Sony, Microsoft - they both do this on purpose - it makes perfect business sense - to "make" less units then necessary - and then cause a "Artificial" demand for the product.  Here's the reasoning - the more hype created by them not "making" enough product causes a great deal of publicity - and then gets worldwide focus on their company for this scenario - now then there are those profiting off E-Bay sales - at anywhere between 5k and 10k a piece - well that is another facet - then there are the normal people - who had no intention of buying this system til either Blue Ray tech got less expensive or after Christmas 2006....  now that there has been this unbelievable amount of publicity - the sales from those people will increase and their profits will increase for the christmas season as the systems become "More Available".

Does anyone really believe that a Multi-Billion dollar corporation like Sony - is going to not "build" enough product due to the thought of less sales?  Stupid people do - thats why they will have sky rocketing profits for Q4 2006. 

Do intelligent people understand that Sony - probably has a warehouse full of these Systems - and is purposely sending small amounts of the product to cause this type of hype - yep.

As for suing Sony - it has been done in the past to companies for this - for example - Kingston, Corsair, K-Byte - for those of you who do not know - these are RAM manufacturers.  These wonderful folks drove the prices of RAM up on the american market just by stating that there was a shortage and enough RAM could not be created to meet the demand.  "Its all been a pack of lies" - it ended up they had warehouses full of RAM - and broke very many US trade laws in the process. 

Due to the fact people have been injured over this game system - Sony could be required under some trade agreement or "International" law to allow the US government to look at and inspect their warehouses to see if the shortage really existed.  If no shortage existed - then the company could be held liable for causing the mayhem, strife and injury it has caused by stating their was a shortage.

Is the US government going to do that?  Probably not - will a private attorney try - if hes paid enough.  And good luck finding an attorney that will sue a multi-billion dollar international company.

I've enjoyed reading the debate here. I think there will be a backlash to Sony's reputation for this.

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Originally posted by ghost047


Today's society has accepted those facts and do nothing about, when you try to raise for voice, people like you says to shut up and open your eyes, they will not do anything to protect you they want money, you just prove my point "THEY WANT MONEY" and they do not care about you. Lets blame the population for the behavior when those company have the knowledge to stop everything. So instead of helping people, lets blame them and move on. It is because of people who think like you that the world look like that today.

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Did I ever say anything different about them wanting money? No. Of course they want your money, it's a business for crying out loud. And I'm not sure why you're taking a veiled shot at me as I haven't personally directed anything at you, but I hope you feel better. I also never said to shut up to anything, but oh well.

Helping people with what? A higher percentage of being able to get a PS3 at launch?

If someone murders another human being, they're accountable for that. I don't care what it's over. Drugs, money, weapons, a PS3. You dictate your actions and no one else does. Do those things help fuel those actions? Sure. But do they make that final decision? Not at all.

My whole point has been that you can't legally fault Sony for what somebody does to another human being, unless you want to argue that the PS3 is a weapon. It doesn't matter if ethically or morally what they're doing is right or wrong, legally I don't see how you can say that they take the fall for something like that.

Feel free to disagree, because I'm not condemning anyone for disagreeing with me. Simply discussing my thoughts on the matter.

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Originally posted by liddokun

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Originally posted by trigger190
I never understood why people actually wait in line, or in this case, shoot people, just to get a PS3 as soon as possible, as if their lives depend on it.

Not only will it be cheaper if you buy it at a later date, but there will be more games available and less hassle to get one.

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Correct. The reason is because some people are impatient idiots.

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Originally posted by ghost047
I understand what you guys are saying, but these company should have a morale responsability. They know what will happen and they do it anyway. Following your logic, why blame Bush for the war, he is not the one doing it, soldier does, so it is the soldier fault.

Lots of people are infuence by everything and everyone, why do you think there is rating on movie and video games, because people follow these idea. I am not saying music, movie and so are to blame for all the violence in the world, but there is a logic somewhere. People are driven by money, look on this site, buying/selling currancy or level is illegal, but it is not illegal to advertise it, but this site knows it and they still do it, money=no moral.

Company have a moral resposability but they do not care because they want money. A majority of people on this site complain about those company who try to make there game like WoW because they want money, they do not care about the customer, but let blame on player because they play these game.

---

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Originally posted by Devient

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Originally posted by srohek
Second of all Sony is NOT making anymore money by minimizing available units. Yes, the demand is high, and the value goes up due to limited supply, but Sony doesn't GAIN from this. It's the consumers to decide to RESELL it who wins, NOT SONY.

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My friend that is where you are wrong.  All of the hype caused by the resale, the stabbings, the gun shot wounds, the fools who sleep on the sidewalk over night just to get one of these machines - does give Sony gain - better gain then advertising during the Superbowl.  Its called - FREE ADVERTISING - and whether it be good or bad - its all free - and it gets their name out there more and more and more - at no cost to them.

Yes - Sony, Microsoft - they both do this on purpose - it makes perfect business sense - to "make" less units then necessary - and then cause a "Artificial" demand for the product.  Here's the reasoning - the more hype created by them not "making" enough product causes a great deal of publicity - and then gets worldwide focus on their company for this scenario - now then there are those profiting off E-Bay sales - at anywhere between 5k and 10k a piece - well that is another facet - then there are the normal people - who had no intention of buying this system til either Blue Ray tech got less expensive or after Christmas 2006....  now that there has been this unbelievable amount of publicity - the sales from those people will increase and their profits will increase for the christmas season as the systems become "More Available".

Does anyone really believe that a Multi-Billion dollar corporation like Sony - is going to not "build" enough product due to the thought of less sales?  Stupid people do - thats why they will have sky rocketing profits for Q4 2006. 

Do intelligent people understand that Sony - probably has a warehouse full of these Systems - and is purposely sending small amounts of the product to cause this type of hype - yep.

As for suing Sony - it has been done in the past to companies for this - for example - Kingston, Corsair, K-Byte - for those of you who do not know - these are RAM manufacturers.  These wonderful folks drove the prices of RAM up on the american market just by stating that there was a shortage and enough RAM could not be created to meet the demand.  "Its all been a pack of lies" - it ended up they had warehouses full of RAM - and broke very many US trade laws in the process. 

Due to the fact people have been injured over this game system - Sony could be required under some trade agreement or "International" law to allow the US government to look at and inspect their warehouses to see if the shortage really existed.  If no shortage existed - then the company could be held liable for causing the mayhem, strife and injury it has caused by stating their was a shortage.

Is the US government going to do that?  Probably not - will a private attorney try - if hes paid enough.  And good luck finding an attorney that will sue a multi-billion dollar international company.

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Originally posted by Sin-

The sad thing about it is in a couple of years all this will be a thing of the past.  Ppl getting shot for a system and in 3-4 years youll find used for 20 bucks at stores.  I never understood why they only make a limited amount of systems knowing that the demand is high.  They know they more systems they make the more profit they get, but it seems that they only use it as a marketing tool to get more ppl interested.

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I think if anything, this whole situation just proves how hopelessly addicted some people can be.  It's useless to sit here in this forum and point fingers at whose fault it is.  Here, especially, is perhaps not the right audience for trying to get some real action going about the issue.

If hearing and seeing people physically fight over a PS3 bothers you THAT MUCH, then maybe you should go to your local stores, go up to the people in these lines, and tell them to "get a life!" or whatever you feel you need to tell them.  Or on the other hand, write to Sony, write them every damn day/week/hour/whatever about how you feel about their actions. 

(And when I say "you" I mean anyone reading this thread who is terribly disturbed by the topic and feels there needs to be some action taken.)