As a leader of what was once the premier raiding guild on my server during our stay in WoW, I have to say I completely disagree with almost everything this writer says for many of the reasons previously stated.   He simply lacks credibility given his previous MMO experience to be taken seriously.   I think that anyone who has played a lot of games in this genre knows who spot wrong this guy is, and how he is given a front page editorial on a site that specializes in MMORPGs is beyond my comprehension. 

Most of the various types of gameplays he says this WoW caters to are hardly viable and laughable when compared to this games predicessors.  Anyone who is playing for PvP has obvioudly never played a serious PvP MMO at any length ala DAOC.  The raiding is a serious badly conceived gimmicky bosses which has more to do with know the bosses 47 little tricks and finding out the 1 way the devs left open to win the encounter.   The Burning Crusade does absolutely nothing to remedy the over instancing PvP, which continues to suck what remaining life there is on the old overworld, nor does it remeedy the fact the games instances / raids lose their luster rather quickly when you are running the same one 2 times a week for 34 weeks trying to get that special item or enough rep grounded out.  

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Originally posted by nthnaoun

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I thought like you with the exception of wanting solo play and I stumbled across Lineage II. Lineage II is the only game that I know of that will still have you progressing after 8 months. You can solo or group in the game. It will take you forever to level, grinding in that game blows, there is open PvP with strict rules for the griefers, and there are clan or siege wars as you advance in level. You might like the game.

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I've tried lineage in the past, whether or not it has changed for the better is not of knowing but there are indeed things in wow i want to see in other mmorpgs and that's the vast content, i've tried games that were alot more amazing in action and decent pace but lacked the content wow has.

I am prolly never gonna find my game but if the mmorpg producers take some of the good things from wow and make it more complex along with adding more controle around it they might very well succed, they might not get as many subs as wow, since it wouldn't be as easy ect. but it would atleast serve as a nice game towards the right circle.

Wow made you feel a sorta constant progress, untill you hit 60, if another game can keep it going like that´, with a lvl cap of 150 or whatever which takes ages to get but yet make people feel constant progress in other forms than just exp and items, then we are on the right step. In other words there needs to be some sort of constant progress through items being swapped for better and "smoother looking" along with lvl'in and new abilities or combos and alike, at last there needs to be a third where wow has tradeskills ect. but it also ended at almost same pace as lvl 60. Don't forget a nice amount of content with places that doesn't look like the other one, with a story of it's own, along with thier villains and demons alike, and ofc. an instance where you can venture for the unknowing with your friends with hectic battles and fast paced, yet long fights, with it's own tale to tell. I am asking for the impossible, i know.

level - item - skillpoint/tradeskills/finetuning, as soon one drops off the game goes down hill.

But in the end, it doesn't matter how cool your blazer and jeans where last year, it won't be as fancy as it was, there always have to be some changes that makes it feel new and fresh.

 

WoW as simple it was, it was solid, it had peaks, and a little new but i was only in love with the game when it was 1-60 along with the valor and bluegear days, the rest was just wowcrack.

 

Age of Conan and 2Moons, conan got it's great old myth and legends with it's combat system of nice realtime combat and good load of controle, not to forget it's bloody and brutal world it is. 2moons is as bloody and brutal as Age of conan with it's own special and fast combat system with cutting and decapitating finishers, not to forget it implementing instance system. Their combat only is more complex and advanced than wow, makes them just that much interesting... i always hated seing how a 3.7 speed weapon could look so awful stupid and boring. Which goes over to another game that had a nice amount of action and decent pace of even 2hander weapons, RyL1, it just lacked content, such a shame cause it had potential.

i"ve no respect for anyone who's played WoW for 2 years yet only played UO for 3 days.

Everyone should think of all the games that have released recently. How many of them actually work and/or have decent content and little bugs? Not many. For example dark and light, mourning, archlord, and even non MMOs are infested with bugs like Neverwinter Nights 2 or The Guild 2.

I got this one game called Stronghold 2 that was simply unplayable. I like WoW and Blizzard because every game ive gotten from them has worked. Not to mention they always have great online with battle.net. Most games have about 1 or 2 games max on their game list a month after release.

I predict the next great MMO will be Blizzard made and im not even a fanboy. Thats just the pattern I see things going in these days. Devs need to start making a solid game without problems before they start adding the fluff on their games. Give me a game that works! Is that really so much to ask for?

Let me add that I hate when devs say: We will add this feature after release. Which has always been a load of bullsh*t. Either add it in before release or dont put the feature up. The question I want to start seeing in a FAQ is "Does this game work and have solid content?"

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Originally posted by Ponzini

Let me add that I hate when devs say: We will add this feature after release. Which has always been a load of bullsh*t. Either add it in before release or dont put the feature up. The question I want to start seeing in a FAQ is "Does this game work and have solid content?"

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But WOW is the best example for adding stuff later. each high lvl instance was added after the release. the Honor system, too.

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Originally posted by cowiie

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Originally posted by Ponzini

Let me add that I hate when devs say: We will add this feature after release. Which has always been a load of bullsh*t. Either add it in before release or dont put the feature up. The question I want to start seeing in a FAQ is "Does this game work and have solid content?"

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But WOW is the best example for adding stuff later. each high lvl instance was added after the release. the Honor system, too.

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  So where are those heros classes we were promised would be in right after launch?  It's a shame, if they actually stopped trying to sweep their promises under the rug hoping we'd forget about them, the game might have turned out to have a lot more depth and options for advancement.

I don't see how you can say WoW is so attention grabbing after 3 weeks you can grind any class to 60 and ooo there went half the game. WoW is a simplistic EQ knock off that offers no real challange. The game world is one of the smallest out there, the community is mostly whiney pvp griefing children, the Only thing WoW has is graphics which a certian level of gamer cares about, i care about quality game content and immersive gameplay and WoW seems to be severly allergic to both....
EQ was a fantastic game that suffered from a change of company and of game ideas. WoW is simply a pretty filler till a really good game is released.

Steve Wilson sorry dude but WoW really suxx its really boring gane "exept pvp"but for 3 months was bored from it,every night dumb raids after this go pvp whit twink or alts leveling dont know was boring from me can see anything i that game that can  keep my attention on that game anymore!!!


"three days with Ultima Online"OMG dont have what to say , i am shure that most of the old players will agree that you was best gameplay ever if you look more deeper!!

Ahh gotta love it when hating WOW is the "cool" thing to do.

So what next, hating "Vanguard" will be the new cool thing to do?

WoW is the best at what it's doing atm. Don't know how things will go from here, but for now ppl can say what they want about it, it's still a big success. The only game that I play and see as something different is EVE, but it has a certain class of players it aims for. Beside that as was said there is no game that can challenge WoW now.

For the ones that "thank WoW for keeping these kind of players out of their game", STOP THINKING YOUR SO SMART AND WOW IS FOR IDIOTS. Think your the kiddies that think of themselves as UBER.

And for  the ones that say a player won't respec when he hits 60, because he wants to DPS altho he has another meaning, it means you haven't played the game for more then an year.

I max ranked a char, but am not too much into PvP so won't enter that topic. I'd rather raid. I want my char to get better abd better gear so I like the way it looks.

I am also awaiting new titles, but for now WoW is the best. If u don't like it just don't play it, but don't think of yourself as so much better or so special for now playing/liking it.

Yes, WoW is cool that you can play it solo....but what totally bites is that is the only way you can play it. At least until end-game anyways. It's retarted that they make all the classes soloable and reduce xp share in parties. It makes it so that a new player plays solo and gets used to being solo then when he hits end-game and he does a raid like LBRS he doesn't know what the heck he's doing with the group. It's mind-numbingly boring to grind and do the dumbest quests ever over and over all by yourself. Sure, you can group with someone else but then you only get half the experience meaning it's pointless to group until 60.

Also, it's only casual until you get to the end. The PvP in the beginning is pointless because of all the twinks so all you can do is "casually" grind. When you get to the end, the only thing to do is PvP or do raids. And these raids are freaking stupid, spend 5 hours trying to get into a group, another 5 hours in the PuG trying to get gear (which will probably not drop or someone else will get it) so that you can do another raid to get some more gear to just keep climbing up the endless gearchain. There is no use for this gear, except to help get new gear! There is no point to World of Warcraft but to do the same super long (noncasual!!) endgame raids or PvP.

World of Warcraft is the game for idiots, it was in the beginning and it is now. It's horrible to grind because it's so boring grinding by yourself (SWG had the best grinding system pre-NGE) and end-game just sucks period.

The only reason that so many people have played it for so long, is because there's nothing better out. All the other great games like EQ and AC got old and no good games have come out since then except for this piece of crap. I, for one, can't wait til the day WoW becomes "old news" and is overthrown by a better game.

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Originally posted by malachidark

World of Warcraft is the game for idiots, it was in the beginning and it is now. It's horrible to grind because it's so boring grinding by yourself (SWG had the best grinding system pre-NGE) and end-game just sucks period.

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I clicked your "User Info" by mistake and couldn't help noticing that one of the games you have played and  will play is WoW. And since the game is for idiots as u seem to think....you can come to the conclusion yourself.

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Originally posted by Paragus1
As a leader of what was once the premier raiding guild on my server during our stay in WoW, I have to say I completely disagree with almost everything this writer says for many of the reasons previously stated.   He simply lacks credibility given his previous MMO experience to be taken seriously.   I think that anyone who has played a lot of games in this genre knows who spot wrong this guy is, and how he is given a front page editorial on a site that specializes in MMORPGs is beyond my comprehension. 

Most of the various types of gameplays he says this WoW caters to are hardly viable and laughable when compared to this games predicessors.  Anyone who is playing for PvP has obvioudly never played a serious PvP MMO at any length ala DAOC.  The raiding is a serious badly conceived gimmicky bosses which has more to do with know the bosses 47 little tricks and finding out the 1 way the devs left open to win the encounter.   The Burning Crusade does absolutely nothing to remedy the over instancing PvP, which continues to suck what remaining life there is on the old overworld, nor does it remeedy the fact the games instances / raids lose their luster rather quickly when you are running the same one 2 times a week for 34 weeks trying to get that special item or enough rep grounded out.  

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Absolutely rediculous. A lot of players like WoW's pvp more then Dark Age of Camelot's. Its diffrent PVP, DAOC is not the holy grail of pvp.

Example of DAOC pvp:

DAOC PVP

Its VERY slow paced

WoW's PVP

Fast paces, a lot more action happens.

For me, its an easy choice.

I have to disagree with the above poster, DAoC pvp is not slow paced (relic raid anyone?) and is actually meaningful.

Think of it this way, if Horde wins every AV for a month does that actually DO anything to benefit the horde?  To the guy playing off in Stonetalon what you do in AV has no effect on him.

DAoC you take a relic from the opposing realm, you just increased your own damage for every single player of your realm.  The keeps aren't instanced, so you can't be sure there are "just" 40 opponents.  Plus I found that a castle siege was just hella fun. 

Not to mention guilds could claim keeps and upgrade them.  So not only would a frontier keep have your guild's banner flying the ramparts, but you could have better equipped guards and stronger doors.

So yeah, I think DAoC version of pvp is a tad better than WoW's lackluster attempt. 

I don't understand the perspective you (that disagree with the editorial) have when criticize what the author states. I am one of those people that has played WoW from the beginning, so have a full 2 years playing the game. I played WoW, DAOC, Eve, AC2, AO, SWG... the list goes on. And there are 2 game mechanics that I think make it more playable than any other MMO before it: simplicity, and the pace of the game. I recently started playing EQ2, as I am burned out on WoW, and much like Eve it is not simple to fully understand the choices you make when you choose to use one ability over another or the order one uses their abilities. For example, in EQ2 the cost, cooldown, and often the actual effect of the ability is not clear until you 'examine' the item. A better example: in Eve, if you choose to upgrade, say, your weapons on your noob ship you find yourself considering about 5 different factors in choosing the right weapon for you, which in turn requires you to reconsider multiple components related to your ship and all other components already equipped. In other words, upgrading your weapon often requires upgrading 2-4 different ship components, not to mention finding, buying, and then acquiring those components.

I'm rambling... WoW isn't perfect though. Why in the world did WoW set up armor the way that they did??? why even allow a rogue to wear cloth, they never will. Why does a priest have to wear cloth? They're just going to stand there casting heals, there's no need for light amor!

I also agree that WoW has no role-playing. This doesn't anger me, as I'm not a very good RPer anyway, but I do play on those servers. Why? maturity. It's still not perfect, but hey...

And WoW does get old. I feel sorry for those looking for groups to scholo or strat. Sometimes I feel like I slipped by just in time as everyone else was running these dungeons, cuz sometimes people seem to be waiting forever to go there. But in contrast, now that my 60 (that's right, 2 years of playing and I only cared to get 1 char to 60, but I do have over a dozen alts of all lvls) has been at end-game for some time, I find myself very very bored. There is nothing I can do solo, aside farming, that's worth my time. In fact, I find that the only reason to play my 60 is for raids. Finding a raid by your lonelies is basically impossible, and not very smart. And to get in a raid via your guild requires scheduling ahead, which doesn't always work out when you need 60 people.

PvP they've ruined. My guild once ruled the horde-side for PvP on our server, if not the whole server. I do enjoy what they've done with x-realm bg's, but with not balancing mechanism it's not worth it to me. But to compare it to DAOC, it's the best thing ever. Never again do I have to worry about getting into the fight at the right time or the right day to see some action or to have a good battle. In Wow, if the first match sucks, rejoin and it's a whole new opportunity. Regardless, you never wait and there's rarely a 'bad' day to PvP. But again, world-PvP is a joke. The new systems they implemented in in EPL and silithus is nice, but the rewards aren't worth it. There's just no point to it.

I'll end with quests. Most of the quests are enjoyable to do. I can't recall (too many) quests that felt like a grind or just frustrated me. But the story behind them was always lacking. Immediately, playing EQ2, I realized that quests can and should have important storylines, that fit into the scheme of the world, and give you enough motive alone to do the quests even if the end result is a simple grind. Had WoW's quests had the depth that I've found in EQ2 I might actually have the motivation to reread them, as well as repeat them. Eve lacks any real quest depth of any kind, and most other games I recall playing were simply average.

I worry that 10 more lvls and some new areas just won't suffice to fullfil what leaves me feeling empty when playing WoW. Granted, the expansion is needed, but I think it might be too late for what they going to give. For EQ2 being just as old and having 4 adventure packs, on their 3rd expansion, more depth, and greater detail (in every aspect: graphics, storyline, mechanics...), what WoW is giving us almost seems like a profitable joke.

Y'know what...

WoW is bittersweet to me.  I hardly think BC will be worth it - but I do look forward to it.  I love the game, but I hate the community - the hype - the countless Counterstrike Kids who's cruddy little thrift store PC's happen to be able to run WoW.

However - anyone with a brain knew that even before WoW was released, it would be a smash hit.  Even people who despised the series knew that it would be this big.

So if you have to write an editorial that is an argument against the 'nay-sayers' of the past... 2 years later, albeit... that goes to show you are either:

A) Utterly bored.
B) Utterly clueless.

You can't be being 'payed' to hype up WoW because they don't -need- the hype.  You probably had some terrible anti-WoW conversation with someone at 4am, and thought you'd type up some bogus, unprofessional little editorial based on the opinions of children and Halo feltchers.

So what's the point of my post?  You may as well have written an article on the importance of breathing oxygen in order to survive.  And wether or not I'm just being ornery and harsh - the fact of the matter is, you're losing respect writing articles like that.  And if you don't care - you need to grow up.

There are only 3 reasons why WoW is as sucessful as it is.

Number One: Blizzard already had a fanboy following, so people who had never played an MMO before bought WoW simply because it was the next Blizzard game. The Bait

Second Reason: World of Warcraft is addicting (note, I didn't say fun). To be anywhere near as good as you're "supposed to be" in WoW, you need to spend 4-5 hours A DAY instancing, grinding rep, and waiting in Ironforge for a decent group to form. The Trap

Reason the Third: Promises of future content that will reinvent the game. Stop kidding yourselves folks, Burning
Crusade will be more of the same. The cap will be raised to 70, so you have to spend more time to level up, only to return to the same boring and endless instancing that you've already done at level 60. And if you honestly think that PvP will in any way be more interesting, well, you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.

I'll say it again, a person who only played UO for 3 days has no business posting any sort of articles on MMORPG.com

I was once bitter about WoW, but then a friend pointed out that I was so bitter because I liked it so much.  He was so right, I loved the warcraft universe.  I had played all the previous Warcraft RTS games and was drooling to be able to get in and play one in the MMO genre.  I had fun during beta, and live, for a while that is.  Then  reality kicked in, the game was a grind, and at the end was a horrific grind.  Everything was too simple, you could jump in on any class at level 60 and be able to master it after playing for a half hour or so.  You could get to level 60 in 2 weeks, easy.  The raid instances were not hard, just learning them was annoying, but once you did it became an endless braindead zerg grinding fest for gear.

I was bitter because I had such high hopes for WoW, but Blizzard let me down in a big way.  Yet now I accept it for what it is, a PvE raiding game.  The PvP is the worst implementation in the world, it boggles the mind how any one could honestly call it PvP, its more like gear vs gear. 

WoW is popular no doubt and has a huge subscription base, but to all those people who tout the huge subscription base number, how many of those are in North America?  I know Blizzard has a huge asian following, simply because the end game grind is actually very asian style MMO play.  If you have ever played an asian MMO, that hasnt been watered down for western consumption, you would know that the WoW end game grind is very much their thing.  I resubscribed to WoW to check in on the changes and say hi to some old friends.  Lo and behold a lot of my old friends were gone, and I saw more servers with low pop (mostly PvP) than I had when I had originally left the game.  Now I am not saying that WoW is dying, but I do not believe right now that their NA subscription is going up, it actually appears as if people are starting to leave.

Also a lot of people still play WoW because the competition is either crappy or really old.  There are a lot of new MMOs coming down the pipe and we will see how WoWs subscriptions fare then.  I dont see the game dying as there are lots of Blizzard fanboys, this coming from an ex blizz fanboy, and a strong asian following.  There is a reason Blizzard no longers breaks down the numbers when they give them out.

Haha I don't think I am better because I don't play WoW. As I mentioned in my post several pages ago, I totally agree with the saying "Different strokes for different Folks". I am happy that WoW is so popular, because it keeps more of the type of person I don't enjoy grouping with or even being around, away from me.

As for WoW being the best, that is a load of horse manure. "Best": is purely a relative term. Best depends on who is judging, and will be different for just about each and every person. Just because WoW has the largest market share does NOT mean by any means it is the best. I don't know about you, but when the Acadamy Awards roll around every year, the movies that get voted "Best" are rarely the ones I would have voted for.

Summer Blockbusters are usually the movies that rake in the most money... does that mean they are the best? No, I did not think so....As a matter of fact, they tend to have the weakest plots and acting of the movies released over the course of a year. Star Wars episodes 1-3 I found utter tripe, and would have liked to request my money back. They did extraordinarily well in the box office however, so I guess they must be the 'Best".

just because more people do something does not mean that thing is the best. It just means there is a lemming/mob mentality, where lots of people are followers and very few are leaders.

As for maturity level in games. I have played EQ1, EQ2, DAoC, CoH, Lineage 2 and WoW, as well as multiple betas. In MY OWN experience, I found the average WoW player to be VASTLY less mature than in any of the other games mentioned. Does that mean that EVERY player is immature? No of course not. As I said, it was a matter of experience. In previous games, it was the rare low level ( I won't say noob) that begged for money or gear. In WoW, it is the rule rather than the exception. In other games, I rarely had difficulty with groupmembers and loot. Only very rarely did I ever encounter a lootwhore. In WoW, again, selfishness is the rule rather than the exception.

PVP Alterac Valley is one of the best ideas I have seen for PVP. Yet the average immaturity of the people who enter that zone makes the grind to max faction similar to having an appendectomy sans painkiller. The whining and whinging and crying and arguing turns what could and should be a 30-45 min battle into something that can last for hours. Meanwhile, the battle channels are filled with "OMG I hate pallies!" on the Horde side, and "OMG dude Shamen suxxors!" on Alliance side.

Never before have I seen 'Leet Speak" (don't even ask me how to actually write that) to such a degree. Every game has its own vocabulary, of course. However, WoW players have taken this to a new level. I often ask myself if some players are capable of even typing in English. (And no this is not targeted at non-native English speakers, since I am one myself)

Certainly WoW has a lot going for it, IF you like WoW style.

- Cartoony graphics with cheesy armor/weapons

- easy soloability all the way to max level

- craptastic loot system where any mob in the game can drop "purple" or uber item, regardless of whether it is a rare spawn or not.

-Very Basic PVP system that allows a participant to earn a reward with absolutely NO risk whatsoever.

-Very Basic raiding system, with mobs requiring little strategy, that makes you feel like you are amazing because you can kill them...

-A High level of instancing, making it so that a month or so after hitting level 60, you have done each and every instance 50+ times, taking all the interest and surprise out of the game.

Sure, if you like these characteristics, then WoW is JUST the game for you. Please go buy it and enjoy it. Feel free to give Blizzard your money. The more of you that do this, the fewer I have to listen to whining about a game's difficulty and how death actually means something.

As for WoW being THE game to hate on, well, there is a lot there to hate. Some people jump on the bandwagon, sure, that goes with everything. For myself, I disliked the cartoony graphics, but after my horrid experience with EQ2 I decided to try WoW. I leveled up a troll rogue (way too many undead already) and raided through Onyxia. maxed PVP faction with every zone, leveled up a hunter to 54, a priest to 30+ and a shaman 30+. 4 months after buying the game, you could not PAY me to log in again.

I do not think I am superior. I just cherish my individuality and I seek a challenge in a game. Mindless simplicity to me is boring, not a factor of fun.  For you however, enjoy whatever you do. Don't try and tell me that your opinions are facts however, that just shows a lack of maturity right there. Everything I stated in this post I acknowlege as MY OPINION, and therefore subject to my own preconceptions. Man up and say the same..

At the moment I am enjoying Wow, got a bit bored having reached level 60 but then just re-rolled, of course I realise my fun won't last, the high-end is just too simple and narrow, but for now I'm enjoying it.

Ok so I suppose that makes me a fan, but even being a fan I think that article is absolute rubbish!

Steve quotes:

Reviews prior to WoWs release comparing it to EverQuest II didn't exactly instil a lot of hope. WoW was the game for idiots, while EQII was praised as the hardcore achievers game. Everyone admired how smooth and flawless WoW was but it was predicted to fail by some, and miserably so after six months. Any idiot could make it to 60 in six months, then what would they do? The prophecy was that there'd be a mass exodus leaving vacant empty servers as the flighty casuals moved onto the next big pretty. And somehow six months, then a year came and went with the subscription numbers going only upwards. WoWs so popular that newspaper cartoon strips mentioned it regularly, it's been the main theme of several television shows, and even had a related question on Jeopardy. WoW is the 800 pound gorilla of the MMO world.

This is totally untrue, as I recall there was nothing but high expectation and great reviews/previews of the game, also Steve's use of words like "idiots" and "unwashed masses" is completely out of order.

Wow's most important contribution  is that it bought a lot of new players to MMORPGs at a time when they needed them.  As a well-crafted simpler game with rainbow graphics, pots of gold, a myriad of quests, it was perfect for swelling the ranks and keeping everyone playing. 

Then we hit a problem, WoW having subtly addicted many new players leaves them with nowhere to go and very little to do! A seasoned player to MMORPGs has learnt how emotional these games can be, you make friends, build guilds, fight and create together in a world where there is a common goal. A world where sometimes saying goodbye can be very hard.                                                                                                          

WoW starts you off on the right footing but slowly by its very nature seems to work against everything that is at the heart of MMOs, especially at the high-end. If a game becomes selfish and is just about items and rank it is not a true MMORPG, it's just a game and in that content WoW shines! No wonder so many love/hate WoW, it offers  the addictiveness and world of MMORPGs with one hand, but the other hand is empty.

Steve's article might have some valid points but overall it is immature and not an article that does anything to help the MMORPG world. At a time when flaming is the norm, the last thing we need is the sort of article that will divide the MMORPG community even more!