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11/14/06 2:53:35 AM#21
That has nothing to do with true evil. They are just kids and if they had anything to loose or people would stomp on them, they would start crying and run home to mommy. |
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11/14/06 2:58:53 AM#22
If airhead is right, and that we would just be better off playing with barbie dolls, then perhaps he would also agree there is no point in living in the real world unless if there is murder, rape, and theft. I mean come on, those things make the world more "human" to you. Perhaps they should increase like how you might think pvp should go even farther. I really don't care if Dan was using satire or giving a real stance, he illustrated someone that I don't like to play with and am happy that I have not played a game like WoW to experience such immature behavior.
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airhead
 Novice Member
Joined: 4/21/06
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. |
11/14/06 3:19:22 AM#23
You know, you almost sound INSPIRED. So answer me this, which would rather do: 1. kill some griefer, stomp on him, and make him run home crying to his mommy. OR 2. kill 20 rats and collect thier tails? see what I mean? be honest with yourself... pvp is just plain fun. Honestly, I was more inspired when I lost than when I won... I have to think someone is near catatonic if they can get a woodie killing 20 rats as opposed to getting even with a griefer... jeeze. EDITED: OH, and one more thing... both of the above posts are overgeneralizing on the nature of PVPers; insinuating they are kids or young or whatever. I honestly wish I was young, but I'm not... 40+. And sex is not an issue either, cause some of the meanest, most griefing evil players I've ever encountered have been females over 25... lol. And finally, YES, murder and rape in the real world are evil, and without some evil around, good has no meaning. There can be no light without dark (Legend... hehe). The real question you have to ask yourself is do you want to play a dynamic, unpredictable game, or kill 20 rats and collect their tails? |
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11/14/06 3:25:18 AM#24
I believe in "open" pvp and feel if you can't hack it - you shouldnt play it. The fact is I don't grief, I am actually a pk hunter - thats the role I like - without griefers who would I hunt? I truly hope that more games like Shadowbane and DAOC are introduced into the marketplace and less games like L2 and Archlord. |
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11/14/06 3:36:07 AM#25
Just one thing thou. You confuse griefing with PVP. Killing someone that is defenceless has little to with with actual PVPing. Make a good system where you actually have something to loose if you get killed, and greifers would truly be a minority. Not like in wow where you kill someone just cus you can, and should you get killed you will not loose more then the 30sec it takes to run back to your corpse. Its not evil to kill someone over and over just cus you can. Its plain stupid. PS You could be old in age, but a kid just the same |
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Reklaw
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/07/06
Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves. |
11/14/06 3:37:55 AM#26
This artical shows allot of thing but it does not and can never describe a true gamer,, they have no clue that even in War there are still rules, yes maybe designers creat a game for mature people and maybe they also think that some of that maturity will show in their games, unfortunly there are some people like the auteur that because it is possible in a game it should be done, i must say sorry to children i might have pointed a finger at cause i always thought it was some child doing stupid stuff like that but it seems people that should be mature of age to be such bad gamers aswell, reason why i always thought it was little children acting like this is that mostly if something like in the topic said/typed happens in my games it mostly happens late in the afternoon(think school is out) or sunday's when mom and dad let them play on the computer, mostly during evenings or late midnight you mostly see mature gamers. I also am of mind that if you enjoy the things explained in the topic that you must have a reall sad life to get enjoyment out of gaming the way of the topic. Maybe the artical was writt'n with sarcasme in mind or to just show how stupid of a gamer you might be but unfortunaly at some points it hold truth on how some in-mature people play games. ------------------------------------------------------------ |
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11/14/06 4:46:43 AM#27
First, there's no way around his reasoning: if the game allows it then you accept it by playing. Second, guys like that are dicks, satire or not. So he makes an interesting point about at least a portion of the player base of FFA PvP games. Third, there is a serious factual error in the article. Griefers may need pray, but PvE players absolutely don't need PvP players, no matter what he thinks UO showed. I mean, what he's saying is that PvE players want to be griefed since otherwise the game becomes, gosh, too PvE. Please save us from that fate, I secretly hate my chosen playstyle. |
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11/14/06 5:01:00 AM#28
That half-life game was so stupid....i mean it was all PvE! Would have been so much better with every enemy bunny hopping and speed hacking!
Serious: EQ (all PvE) still has a larger subscriber base than UO does. EQ has almost completely shut down their "griefing allowed" servers, and the same with DAoCs. I believe the only reason that they keep those last servers on life support is to keep the idiots there, rather than having them trying their hardest to grief people on regular servers and spamming message boards constantly about how the company has "abandoned the massive audience of PvP griefers" (less than 500 per game) |
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11/14/06 5:07:06 AM#29
What's the point of this article? Despite the columnist displaying classic case of narcissism and in need of serious psychological counseling, I'm not sure what he is trying to prove? This guy is a senior editor? What is most disturbing is that he describes the exact thought process of murderers and rapists. Yes, I know he is talking about a game but not once does he mention enjoyment roleplaying as an "evil" character. He enjoys getting real life threats! Sounds like Mr Fortier had some insecure attachment issues as a child as well. If this is all suppose to be sarcasm then I apologize to Mr Fortier.
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11/14/06 5:14:22 AM#30
Just like the guild to the funeral of a real person if this isnt sarcasm then go play your pvp or whatever. I would rather duel for honor then be an annoying little pissant that gets their jollies off by bullying people.
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11/14/06 5:18:42 AM#31
Good point.  Although I bet someone will now say Half-Life is only so big because of the Counterstrike multiplayer mod, but then again, you can't actually grief in it.
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11/14/06 5:46:19 AM#32
Good article :p And to all the carebear whiners, if you dont like the PvP in a certain game, either dont play it or try to convince the dev to change it. RvR in DAoC was great, to kill or to be killed. PvP in WoW had it's moments :p I loved getting even with the feckin Alliance in STV for killing me when I was young and unexperienced. ( I played an Undead Shadow priest, and made no difference if they were grey, yellow, only 1 or 2+ players, they had to die :p I was lvl 40 to 45 then, and the best time I had was when I could kill 3 other players of the same level as me at the same time :p ) There were days I wanted to do a certain quest, but it never got done cause I kept killing those Alliance scum :p To me it was also a sort of RP, they were the enemy, they must die ! :p I did not really like the BG's in WoW. Anyway, I agree it are the PvP rules and design that allow things to happen, so expect people to play by the rules. If you cant handle the rules, go play another game. Edit : Oh and I play EvE now, prolly one of the biggest "griefer" game of all. In EvE, the stronger players gather a few battleships and stand at the gate, there they camp and shoot every newb out of the sky. Been playing EvE for about 1,5 months now and lost already around 10 ships to those gank squads. But I still keep running missions in lowsec, just cause of the thrill. Eventually I will be strong enough to go bounty hunting those feckers and get even :p I can understand that carebears wont like this game, and should stay away from it, or just stay in highsec and never experience the true game of EvE :p I do agree however that you should be able to do either or both. Like in EvE, you can stay in Highsec and run missions ( this should be improved alot ). You can run missions in lowsec and run into forced PvP. Or you can join a corp and go fulltime PvP in 0.0 Having the options is great, just like in DAoC. DAoC was actually better in this, cause you had a pretty good worked out PvE game there.
Greetings, CyberGh0st.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : |
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11/14/06 6:13:26 AM#33
He should be fired for tihs article. For one thing there has never been
a game marketed that said hey play this you can be a jerkoff or
designed for griefing. It is a variation of pvp.While looked as a
negative side effect its not the games fault, its the players. If a
game wants to be open in its design thats a part of their creative
output. Take responsiblity for your actions and stop being a vagina.
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11/14/06 6:23:29 AM#34
Jerk is the kindest word I will use for this article writer.I will unsubscribe to these newsletters now that I understand what writes them.
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RainStar
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/08/05
I will always miss pre-CU but I still enjoy the game. |
11/14/06 6:30:14 AM#35
The article is flawed because not all games that have PvP in them allow the PKer to loot a corpse. Take SWG for example, we cannot loot a corpse. Yet there are many who still like to stand over the the corpse just to act like asshats and humiliate the player they killed. They spam their victories with stuff like I pwnd joo noob and that's the nicer one of the statements they make. There are players who take pride in killing low level players. How the hell does that show any skill on the part of the PKer? Then there are players who think they are awesome because they can blow up a player's vehicle. Oh yeah, that takes some skill. There are griefers who like to disrupt player events even if they aren't in a PvP zone. Can't blame everything on game mechanics, at some point players have to take responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately, those types of players don't give a damn about what anyone thinks about them.
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11/14/06 6:38:58 AM#36
the question is: why not hate the player ? 1. in real life terms if you are an idiot that likes to beat up kids and lough about it a lot of people with clear minds would hate you 2. in game if you like to play a thief, a murderer a griefer there will be others that play paladins, avengers, holy men that have a justified (rpg) hate fiuling them to oppose you in both cases hate for the player/char is justified imho either you are an asshole or you play an asshole but hating an asshole either ingame or irl are positive traits of humanity. to be an asshole and expect not to be hated is the real screwed up thing imho. if your bored, visit my blog at: |
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11/14/06 6:41:45 AM#37
It's unbelievable how strongly people hate Dan cause he doesn't put a little sugar in his articles. Even the pinkest carebear out there has been questing and come across another player 20 levels below him who is flagged. Why would you not kill him? Just because he gets a certain sick satisfaction from putting actual people in the ground instead of bots, he should be fired and this is the "worst article I have read"????? All your whining is doing is encouraging people like me to kill everyone I come across in the hopes that instead of just rezzing and getting back to work, you are actually crying, slamming your keyboard and throwing things around the room. And based on the responses to this article, that is pretty likely.
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11/14/06 6:52:15 AM#38
If this article was a typical forum post, people would just assume the author was a baiting troll. I personally, don't believe that he spends as much time griefing as he claims, nobody really does.. But by stating that he gets his ultimate thrills by griefing defenseless players, he is only testifying to his own shortcommings in pvp. While it's amusing to 2-shot a noob as you pass by, it doesn't even compare to the real heartpounding thrill I have gotten from a real challenge.
In other words, Lern2Play Noob. |
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11/14/06 6:57:27 AM#39
Jonathan Swift did it first and better and folks still didn't get it.
Obviously there has to be a point to PvP and a way to make player based punishment hurt like all hell. If a PKer has nothing to lose by getting punished by the otherside then the game is out of balance and folks who just want to screw with other people and not really play the game will have an open field. I see harsh faction/RvR as the way to go. You can kill anyone you want but your god will probably have something to say about you killing a fellow worshiper. You want to be an agnostic assassin? No problem but you better be damn good at first aid 'cause a god will allow their clerics to cast a heal on you. Dan is right that the game developers have the power to limited the ability of players to be jerks in a PvP environment. His "Modest Proposal" style unfortunately confused the issue. |
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11/14/06 6:59:12 AM#40
My god, stop crying. The replies in this thread have to be some of the most care bear replies I've ever seen in a forum. "Wah, he's an asshole." "Wah, go play other games if you wanna PK". Guess what, alot of us think the best part of an MMO is the pvp and the more open ended it is, the better. Ever wonder why games like UO, Shadowbane, etc have had stellar pvp populations in the past? People want that experience. They want to be able to be killed or kill at any given time without retarded restrictions of who, what, when, where. Yes even those games have their few "safe zones" but the majority is open ended.
There are games out there for people like you. Go play WoW, or EQ. Any game where you have a very small or no penalty for dying and a very small area for killing other human players is not an MMO worth playing. You need consequences. You need to have that risk of losing that great item in your inventory or dropping that stellar weapon you're using. You need some penalty for dying so you can't just jump back into the fight 30 second's later. You need that reward for hunting down players. To harsh? Want us to "Get a life, stop griefing on the internet" too bad, this is what games are for. Do you tell football players not to tackle each other so hard or often? Do you tell ask a race car driver to slow down or not drive as aggressively? To us this is a competitive enviroment, and in that enviroment if the game allows us to kill you at that current point, we may or may not take that opportunity. Cry, more. Please. It's a damn game, you are crying over pixels, 1's and 0's for god sakes. If you can't handle the competition, not able to level cause you might die, grow a pair and do something about it. Level in groups, join a guild or clan that will help you. Play smart. Carebears for the lose. 
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