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Originally posted by Calgore

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Originally posted by GrimReapez

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Originally posted by Calgore

It's not so much that I want them to reinvent the wheel, but a game with crafting, player owned houses, magic swords and elves isn't even that original.

Play 3 different fantasy MMOs and they'll be close to same.

NO WAI!! ..  RLY? ...

And wait, wait.. Science fiction MMO's have.. GUNS? OMFG LOL

/sarcasm off

Seriously dude you're a moron, read more before posting some bullcrap.

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Haha, nice try at being an e-badass, kid. The fantasy genre is wider then goblins, magic swords and repetitive storylines, yet the fantasy MMO genre is not. You should take the internet less seriously.

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I have come to like fantasy mmo's, i am thinking this is gonna be one of the best evolved fantasy mmo's thus far.

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Originally posted by Calgore

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Originally posted by EliasThorne
I'm not attacking here, so sorry if it sounds that way, but here's your challenge.

Describe here a new feature that hasn't been done in an MMO that its relevant to the genre.

There you go, its that simple - put your money where your mouth is and tells us whats missing.

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Some are in other MMOs, but this is what most are missing

Original story
Original world
Fun crafting system
Player designed weaponry/armor
Mounts that actually behave like the animal they are
An actual player-dependent storyline, not just an event tossed every month or so.
Gore
Community involvement in post-release evolution that is listened to

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 I agree with pretty much everyone in this thread.

 The OP says this game is unoriginal, just some pretty extra bells and whistles.

  From what I have read the game is pretty much the same ole crapola with some extra bells and whistles. But if the remade your favorite sci-fi, horror, or fantasy movie with all new special effects, you would most likely go watch that movie too.

 As far as the rest of the people that are trying to defend the game. I like the people behind this game, and I have already pre-ordered it, because I think they are going to surprise us all, everyone from the biggest hater, to the most devoted fanatic of this game, is most likely going to be OMG! Look what these guys are doing! How fricking cool!

  I have read very little to support my belief in this,and I have seen even less. But I have noticed little hints with in the lore, the faqs, and the forums to make mee feel that there is something they are not telling us, and it is something big and wonderful.

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Originally posted by EliasThorne
I hope you're right twisted :)

Oh for the record I'm not really defending them, its just my view on MMOs.  Sure I love them, but I know what I'm getting, I love new things to do but at the core every MMO is pretty much the same just with different window dressing and technical flashy bits.

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 If you think about it, everything boils down to that same simple center. Every sci-fi movie has the same plot, even if it is a diffirent story, actors, and special effects.  Every horror movie is the same, except the story, the actors, and the special effect...  I go to a sci-fi movie, I expect to see aliens trying to dominate man, if I go to a horror movie I expect to see monsters trying to dominate man. I go to a fantasy movie I expect to see a teenage lesbian orgy....sorry wrong fantasy....I expect to see, fairies, centaurs, ogres, magic, etc.... but it's the story, special effects, and the way it is all put together that are going to make it stand apart from the other movies.

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Originally posted by happilpie

These guys are for the most part the makers of the original EQ. (Which in my humble opinion is still the best MMO to date)  Despite the graphics no other game a has storyline as in depth as EQ.  Every other game out there currently hand holds you through the levels.  Thats fine if I want to play a kiddie game.  But its not for me.

I'm looking for a game that doesn't come with a manual....where you aren't told exactly where to go to find 'X" mob or item.  Its all about exploring and running into something unexpected on your way there.  Thats what made EQ so great.

Im hoping for a EQ clone with new graphics and some added tweaks.  I know its not Norrath but I can't wait to find out about the new world we will be living in....All of its myths and legends.

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um "has storyline as in depth as EQ"

Sorry, let me correct you *has storyline as in depth as Final Fantasy 11

KKTHXBYE

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Originally posted by wyzwun

um "has storyline as in depth as EQ"

Sorry, let me correct you *has storyline as in depth as Final Fantasy 11

KKTHXBYE

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Originally posted by anarchyart

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Originally posted by wyzwun

um "has storyline as in depth as EQ"

Sorry, let me correct you *has storyline as in depth as Final Fantasy 11

KKTHXBYE

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EQ has great storylines, guess you haven't played it.

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Actually, I played EQ for 4 years.  During that time I never found much if any cohesive storylines.  If there were then there would have been quite a few books carrying on those storylines....Sure.  Salvatore wrote a couple but they were years after the original "Storylines" and years after Mcquad left.

Now when Planes of Power came out and Possibly Luclin they might have decided that they needed to pull some storylines together.  If you can think of some good cohesive storylines I'd love to hear them.. For years people were trying to figure out the Mayong Mistmoore storyline...Turns out there was'nt much.

EQ was a decent game for it's time but storyline always took 3rd fiddle to 1) Kill monsters  2) Loot stuff

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Originally posted by Balisidar

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Originally posted by anarchyart

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Originally posted by wyzwun

um "has storyline as in depth as EQ"

Sorry, let me correct you *has storyline as in depth as Final Fantasy 11

KKTHXBYE

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EQ has great storylines, guess you haven't played it.

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Actually, I played EQ for 4 years.  During that time I never found much if any cohesive storylines.  If there were then there would have been quite a few books carrying on those storylines....Sure.  Salvatore wrote a couple but they were years after the original "Storylines" and years after Mcquad left.

Now when Planes of Power came out and Possibly Luclin they might have decided that they needed to pull some storylines together.  If you can think of some good cohesive storylines I'd love to hear them.. For years people were trying to figure out the Mayong Mistmoore storyline...Turns out there was'nt much.

EQ was a decent game for it's time but storyline always took 3rd fiddle to 1) Kill monsters  2) Loot stuff

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 Kiticor woods, and Rivervale are the first two stories that come to mind when we discuss stories in EQ. A person who is willing to talk to every NPC they see, will hear the stories, where as just running around doing various quest, and killing monsters you miss a lot of it.

  I don't know if you ever played the Lunar series of games, but there were a lot of NPC's that were in weird areas that you didn't have to go to in order to follow the main story line, these NPC's carried some information that was usually entertaining, and had their own little story progressions.

  I think a good MMO would have a lot more in your face type story lines that you didn't have to seek out, but would contain some that were in somewhat backwoods type areas.

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Originally posted by Calgore  The fantasy genre is wider then goblins, magic swords and repetitive storylines, yet the fantasy MMO genre is not.

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I really hate to burst your bubble happlepie but i played EQ2 for 1 1/2 years and enjoyed it,but the stroyline is anything but good.FFXi is the ONLY game i have every played where there really is a storyline and an amazing one at that.Actually all the FF games have a great storyline,even there console games.Square enix has alot of games with great storylines if thats what people are into.I really don't think half the players who are out speedlevelling even take time to know there IS a storyline in these games.

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Originally posted by olddaddy

For those of you that are the least bit curious, I have some time on my hands, so let me explain what Empire of the Petal Throne was.

It was a fantasy world that took place on an alien planet. Humans formed two main empires, alien creatures, exotic cities/temples, and lots of politics within each empire. I remember the road sytem as elevated roads, the alien races were civilized, subjugated, and hostile to humans, and there were both magical and alien artifacts as treasure. All this was done in a swords and sorcery theme, there were no science fiction gadgets.

The uniforms and armor were exotic looking, and enameled in various color by faction.

MAR Barker was a professor at the University of Wisconsin, I believe. He may have been sociology, or anthropology, or something like that. He developed this entire world, it had it's own religions, cultures, etc drawn together of ideas from various ancient human cultures, and enhanced by his own ideas. It was a work of love by a very enlightened mind. He took his work of love to Gary Gygax, who decided to steal the system and apply it to D&D to make boatloads of cash.

MAR Barker eventually got his world back from Gygax, but by then everything was goblins and orcs. I always remember his work, and really would like to see one of this hobby's leaders, yes, even SOE,  look into bringing this world into the MMORPG market. It would definately be a breath of fresh air in this genre.

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Barker may have had trouble extricating his game from Gygax, but "Empire of the Petal Throne" was released about 1977 or so (3 years AFTER Dungeons and Dragons).

Remember, the first memories "most" folks have of Dungeons and Dragons was the Mattel-produced page-sized booklets targeted towards the younger players.  These came around in 1978 or later.  But in 1974 (maybe even 1973), Dungeons and Dragons was released as three small booklets (heck, even missed a weapons damage table not introduced until the Greyhawk manual was published).

So, unless Barker developed game mechanics in the late 1960's, his work was NOT stolen from Gygax.

"There.  Let this be the first and last time I defend the name of Gygax, gentle reader."

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Originally posted by Calgore
            This just seems like the same old story rehashed with a few more toys, and people are going crazy for it! It's the same "Step into a realm of magic and mystery with an ever evolving player dependent story. Get magic swords and kill goblins and junk." that I've been reading on the backcovers of boxes for the past decade! These fantasy MMOs seem like a joke, the core of this game is unoriginal, with a few bells added on.

             I am not attacking your game, I am just wondering if it's just me or does this game look like unoriginal grindplay poopsockage with eyecandy and a few new features.

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Well, I think a vast majority of people does want to be told the same stories over and over again, maybe only with a little change here and there. Basically, since Homers Ilias and Odysee all possible human stories were told! Everything afterwards is only retelling the same in a different way. And thats what 99% of games, movies, TV soaps and (gasp) books do. If you want novelty, next time reincarnate in a different species. Maybe that sentient Ocean of Lem has different tales to tell.

Just that you prefer (maybe) Sci-Fi doesnt mean its more original, really. Most really original stories were so strange and exentric that only a very small minority enjoyed them, which would be quite an elitaristic thing.

Stories are always references to the known with a small change and surprise.

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Originally posted by Elikal

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Well, I think a vast majority of people does want to be told the same stories over and over again, maybe only with a little change here and there. Basically, since Homers Ilias and Odysee all possible human stories were told! Everything afterwards is only retelling the same in a different way. And thats what 99% of games, movies, TV soaps and (gasp) books do. If you want novelty, next time reincarnate in a different species. Maybe that sentient Ocean of Lem has different tales to tell.

Just that you prefer (maybe) Sci-Fi doesnt mean its more original, really. Most really original stories were so strange and exentric that only a very small minority enjoyed them, which would be quite an elitaristic thing.

Stories are always references to the known with a small change and surprise.

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The old hat "nothing new under the sun" argument doesn't apply here and is a total copout...

This is essentially a big ass expansion pack

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Originally posted by Amathe

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Originally posted by Calgore  The fantasy genre is wider then goblins, magic swords and repetitive storylines, yet the fantasy MMO genre is not.

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The problem in a game context is that a lot of what makes fantasy literature compelling just doesn't translate. For example, take Lord of the Rings. In the story, Frodo is an heroic character because, without any real military training, he saves Middle Earth by acts of incredible courage and fortitude. In the game world, he's a "noob" (as are Sam, Merry and Pippin).  In the LoTR, there are love stories as subplots. Love just doesn't translate into game mechanics at all. And so on. Overdone gaming conventions of level advancement and item aquisition, which is all most mmos are able to do, just can't capture the depth and intrigue of the genre itself.

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Originally posted by Calgore
            This just seems like the same old story rehashed with a few more toys, and people are going crazy for it! It's the same "Step into a realm of magic and mystery with an ever evolving player dependent story. Get magic swords and kill goblins and junk." that I've been reading on the backcovers of boxes for the past decade! These fantasy MMOs seem like a joke, the core of this game is unoriginal, with a few bells added on.

             I am not attacking your game, I am just wondering if it's just me or does this game look like unoriginal grindplay poopsockage with eyecandy and a few new features.

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