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PVP Justice Systems

Posted by vajuras Tuesday February 19 2008 at 2:50PM
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Noticed there was a lot of confusion what a "Justice System" entails. Quite simply we will refer to EVE Online. In Empire space, when you perform an unlawful action, you can be attacked by local authorities (Concord). So even though the game is techinically free-for-all, it is also lawful. Your attacker incurs a risk in order to get their reward (loot from your cargo).

Quite simply, that is all it is. Placing an all-seeing government body within the game to enforce order. Think of 'cops' as a direct extension of the developer- enforcing order in a choatic land.

In EVE Online, the security systems go from 1.0 (safe) to 0.0. The lower the security, I believe the longer it takes cops to arrive at the location where you are attacked. 0.4 and below Concord will not help you. In high sec, it might be possible for  pirates to suicide bomb your transport ship if they scan you for valuable ores. Make no mistake, EVE Online is FFA PVP however it just takes a bit more imagination to be a pirate in high security space.

So, we kind of arrive at the best of both worlds you see. The victim is pretty safe in high secuirity space due to presence of local law. Any player can still attack but they will have to incur the wrath of Concord.

Also, trying to smuggle illegal goods can get you in trouble with Concord. Stealing someone's NPC loot will flag you as freely attackable in high sec.

In World of Warcraft their safe zones make hostile action totally impossible. So, if a friendly walks up and steals your resource node nothing you can do. In EVE Online, they will possibly be flagged as hostile and you can attack without interference from Concord. You can also declare all-out Wars against enemy Guilds making them open to attack ANYWHERE

EVE Online is truly FFA however, you can still peacefully get around in high security space.


Anyway that's a quick rundown for you guys. As you can see, this concept can be transferred to any other type of MMORPG quite easily. Most mmorpgs already have 'guards' anyway but they lack this level of depth

Hrothmund writes:

EVE has safe zones, stations. When docked you can obviously not be attacked.

I guess the same would apply to cities in a fantasy / pedestrian MMO.

Tue Feb 19 2008 3:04PM Report
Anofalye writes:

Althought this concept is good, it wouldn't be enought to convince someone like me to play a game.  I never tried EvE, and unless they add a PvE server, they can forget it. :P


To me, a player cannot have a negative impact in any direct way on another player, and as little negative impacts as possible on any indirect ways (thereby why I like instancing).  I am a coop player, then I have some small % of a competitive player.  For me, competition is totally and completely submissive to cooperation, and there are no compromises to be made.


But EvE system does have some merits, for some players.  Yet, it is fundamentally flawed on the PvE appeals and cannot ever think of reconciliating with real "care bear" players.  aka not the peoples you insults in PvP, but real care bears, peoples who would never even consider attacking another player...and there are quite many such players, where cooperation is everything...Just to help you understand this point, my tiny secondary competitive nature, sometimes upset such players...which make me feels bad and since I can't change myself, I try to hide my competitive nature.  See, I would group my "worst competitor", even if it means I can't beat him that way, just to show you how much secondary my competitive nature is...and does offend the real care bear out there...and they are such sweet players.  PvP cannot be adjusted for these players, even /duel is offending them (IMO /duel is cool, but...for them it shouldn't be in the game at all and althought I disagree with them, they have cooperative and friendship arguments which, cannot be totally ignored).


PvE servers are a necessity for anyone thinking on capitlizing on profits, since you will invariably lose players without these.  Putting fully optional PvP on these server with no rewards linked to it (like /duel) is cool IMO, but even that is offending to some...

Tue Feb 19 2008 5:45PM Report
vajuras writes:

My firm belief somewhat is that we should see games focus on their niches. Mainstream games like World of Warcraft can focus on mass appeal. But for an independant developer like CCP/EVE was at launch it would have been suicide to try to take them on. So they focused on a 'niche' or rahter- they specialized their gameplay and catered it for a crowd

I think it's not optimal to spread yourself thin if you are working with a limited budget. There should be games focused on PVE and games focused on PVP

But I actually think it's harder to make a game totally focused on PVE without a huge budget to produce content unless of course its a sandbox title

Tue Feb 19 2008 7:17PM Report
t0nyd writes:

I still dont get it. So, if i attack you, do you use your space phone and call the police, and they are like, ill be there in like 5 mins? Heh.

 I look at it like this. If I kill you and nobody sees it, it didnt happen. So their should be no retribution, well besides you gunning for me that is...

Tue Feb 19 2008 9:02PM Report
vajuras writes:

Yeah tonyd I think they come after you take damage automatically. What is more interesting, if someone has a criminal rating, the guards will attack those on sight.

Yeah your idea is a lot more comples that would require a Detective career. WELL Online is claiming they will pursue soemthing like that.

Tue Feb 19 2008 9:54PM Report
JB47394 writes:

vajuras: "My firm belief somewhat is that we should see games focus on their niches."

I agree.  The industry has gone through it's process of discovery over the past 10 years to understand what it is that actually works as a basic recipe.  That's been nailed down in World of Warcraft.  The next phase should be the discovery of more specific experiences.  They will be niche compared to World of Warcraft, but it will work like flavors of ice cream.  Most everyone is fine with vanilla or chocolate, but some people really differ in their liking of Cherry Garcia or Rocky Road or Triple Nut Toffee Crunch.

Eve Online is somebody's Cherry Garcia.  There will be many more flavors to come online in the years ahead of us.

Wed Feb 20 2008 9:21AM Report
Sharook writes:

stating eve is lawful world is like claiming columbia is a lawful country

since concord can be bribed to overlook corp wars, they are clearly corrupt --> not lawful

also there are zillions of exploits - which are indeed intended and considered to belong to the game mechanics - but are not lawful

you can cause a transport ship with high value freight to blow up, lose a cheap "sacrifical ship" - you even dont ged podded by concord, while your buddy hauls away the stolen goods from the stolen transport

ok he get's flagged as attackable, but there is noone there to enforce his punishment, since concord will not intervene

in summary: EvE encourages game activity which can be considered as "organized crime" , which is again: intended by the devsbut that is not law and far from being a justice system, just a little raise of the yardstick before allowing full FFA


just my 2 isk

Tue Mar 04 2008 10:25AM Report
vajuras writes:

Its lawful for those that are careful. No authority in real life is 100% perfect. EVE Online created a very realistic system in my book. You didnt list any exploits btw. Everything you just mentioned its INTENDED by the developers.


Sat Mar 08 2008 2:19AM Report
Norden writes:

As a player you have a Concord-standing, starting at 0.0. You can work this into positives by beeing a nice guy and PvE a lot - takes quite a while. When you shoot other players, you not only get attacked by concord (which arrives at the scene in some 4-5 seconds), your standing gets hit. With a negative standing, your screen-icon gets bright yellow - telling everybody near you , you're a bad person. At some point this turns red, dont remember when, now youre a very very bad person. Long before that, Concord will not let you enter certain higsec sysytems any more. The worse your standing, the lower the Securityrating of the systems you can safely be in. Of course, most space is 0,0 safety, but playercontrolled anyway. Of course, its kind of cool to blink yellow and scare all those freighter pilots looking at their overviews.


Fri Mar 28 2008 11:05AM Report
vajuras writes:

Ah never understood what the blinking yellows were now to think of it. I figured they had a lower rating. Hm, wonder if I can take a shot at someone in high sec...

Wed Apr 09 2008 7:37PM Report writes:
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