I've come across a few articles about the use of censorship in gaming. Also I have recently seen several targeting Age Of Conan. I am in no way saying that AoC will be censored in the U.S.. I am worried that our entertainment will be policed(ruined) by whom ever.
I am for ratings. I am against the policing of our entertainment. If you stick with the theme of AoC, you will have foul language, violent content, and nudity. Removing any of these three will break the setting that is Conan.
There is no reason a game should be forced to be different than any movie out there. Slap a rating on the game. Sell the game as mature. Move on. Hopefully Funcom does not cave into pressure and remove aspects from the game. If they want to sell the game to children, by all means release a dumbed down version in a different box, clearly labeled " Childrens Version ".
I will not buy a censored AoC...
Unfortunatly for you, you are in the tiny minority who won't buy it if it is "censored". Funcom will make vastly more money if they keep the rating at "M" than "AO". Is it 'censorship' or 'good marketing'?
You'd rather have the game be a commercial failure and people lose their jobs than give up pixelated boobs. Nice call.
Wed Dec 26 2007 11:48PMI know the ESRB was the lesser of two evils when it came to the court decision. The only problem is that computer and video games are evolving much like movies have. PG-13 has changed over the years into more graphical or explicit material. In my eyes the ESRB system is flawed. We have a mature 17+ and an Adult 18+. How Much of a difference is there in 1 year. I am 18 years old and nothing has changed for me since when i was 17.
Back to the point at hand. AoC would be a complete failure on the U.S. market with all the big retailers not selling just because it got an AO rating.
here is the kicker. Mature rated games are allowed to have some nudity so will the ESRB be as rigid as they have with their rating's or are they going to be the police of this.
Thu Dec 27 2007 12:31AM-Eric_w66
So I guess in your opinion there shouldnt be any games targeted at adults? I dont believe an adult rating instantly dooms the game to failure. Its not just about pixelated boobs, its about the Conan theme. No nudity, green blood, politically correct language, any of those will ruin AoC.
I looked up the ratings system, Mature has sexual content, strong language, and gore. So there should not be a problem with it getting a mature rating. I do think it is funny how a 17+ to an 18+ rating, in your mind dooms the game to failure. So kids have to wait 1 more year to buy the game, shrug...
Thu Dec 27 2007 6:45AMWhy not have to rated versions like they do with music cd's. Have a AO version and a M version. EBGames does have a glassed in section behind the counter that they can put a AO version behind. Or maybe release the AO version to special online only retailers. Hmmm
Just my 2 cents
Thu Dec 27 2007 8:25AMI can't stand censorship in respects to nudity. Maybe one day we'll blind fold babies so that they will not see the evil breast. I could go on but I think that would be censored. The fear of are own bodies, this is embarrassing to be part of the human race.
Thu Dec 27 2007 8:53AMYou know...
The rating is only a guideline. You can buy your kids whatever you damn wish. I'd get it for my 8yo daughter in law. "Look, you wanna have boobs like that when you grow up. Drink lots of milk and marry a millionaire football player and make sure he has enough guts to hack up a man like that."
/Sarcasm
Thu Dec 27 2007 11:57AMIt is indeed disturbing that violent gore and bloody dismemberment are "ok" but the human body in all of it's beauty and splendor is simply "too much."
The puritan society America is based on has really taken a couple backwards steps in what is considered 'socially acceptable' in my opinion.
In the ancient world and in classical art, literature, etc. the human body was celebrated.
Thu Dec 27 2007 1:44PMIf AoC gets a AO rating it will be the kiss of death ... At the very least it will delay the game while the dev's make changes to bring it to a MO level.. Bottom line with the current system the dev's need to be planning in advance and be prepared to deal with this... not wait and see if it happens... I am not against a AO rated game ... However I firmly support the major retailers right to chose whither or not to sell AO rated games.. To me they are one in the same right.
Thu Dec 27 2007 4:35PM"-Eric_w66
So I guess in your opinion there shouldnt be any games targeted at adults? I dont believe an adult rating instantly dooms the game to failure. Its not just about pixelated boobs, its about the Conan theme. No nudity, green blood, politically correct language, any of those will ruin AoC.
I looked up the ratings system, Mature has sexual content, strong language, and gore. So there should not be a problem with it getting a mature rating. I do think it is funny how a 17+ to an 18+ rating, in your mind dooms the game to failure. So kids have to wait 1 more year to buy the game, shrug...//
All I said was if Funcom has to reduce/remove pixelated boobies from the game to get a M rating instead of AO, then that's what they have to do to be commercially acceptable. This isn't some singleplayer porn game made by Playboy or Jenna Jameson which cost probably 100K to make, and none to upkeep. AoC is a multi-million dollar expense that will continue to cost Funcom to maintain and expand it in the future. If they don't get enough subscriptions, they won't be able to do that. An AO rating would mean, at least in the North American continent, they wouldn't. Its not Funcom's fault. Blame the large retailers. Of course, you can't really blame them either since you have to 'hide' the AO stuff, just like the porn mags from the customers, requiring more effort (cost) on their part for no real gain (if it had been rated M instead).
How can you possibly think that a game with the mature aspects removed is "dumbed down"? Does gore, nudity, and language somehow make a more complex and intuitive?
Thu Dec 27 2007 8:26PMLlamster-
I believe removing the gore, nudity, and harsh language would dumb down AoC. Conans world is a harsh and violent world. Watch the first movie. The kid sees his mom get her head cut off. Not having this type of atmosphere does not stick with Conan lore.
Eric_w66
You keep making these porn comments for reasons that I dont understand. Have I mentioned, even once, that I want the game to be a Cinemax special? No, I said nudity. You seem to have some problem with nudity, which is your right. As I said, they should have a dumbed down version for children.
Most of the rumors I have heard, say that Funcom is going to control gore, nudity, and language filters through the servers in targeted regions. I doubt it would be that much more difficult to sell an AO version with a specific code key that unlocks said filter.
Its laughable that Europe will filter out the gore and blood and the United States will filter out the nudity.
Thu Dec 27 2007 8:55PMI don't have a problem with nudity. You can't seem to grasp the basic concept of marketing however.
AO rating = no go for sales in North America. You with me so far?
Funcom = business. Still with me?
Business = to make money, preferably lots of it. This seems to be your problem point.
AO = no cash = bad for business = bad for Funcom = no go.
See how that works? It has nothing to do with ME liking whether or not there is pixelated boobies in the game. Why do you think Funcom stated emphatically that the AO rating is not acceptable to them? Because they hate boobies? No! Because they love having jobs.
Thu Dec 27 2007 10:08PMYou selectively ignore the suggestions of having multiple versions to release. Also, 17+ rating = mature, 18 + rating = AO, 1 year shouldnt make much difference man...
Thu Dec 27 2007 10:56PMAgain, it comes down to marketing. Funcom is not the publisher for this game in North America (EIDOS is, last I checked). And even if they WERE, the cost of having multiple versions is more than the gain they'd make, not to mention the confusion it'd generate.
It doesn't matter what the ratings say 17+ or 18+ or 23+ or 50+. It comes down to whether or not Gamestop, Walmart, Target, <insert favorite software store here> will carry it if it has the AO rating. They won't. So why bother making seperate disks which have to be mastered and pressed, seperate boxes, seperate distribution channels, etc for a few more sales? The publisher is in charge of this part, and I'm sure EIDOS doesn't WANT multiple versions unless its a 'limited edition' boxed set which will ALSO be available through mass-market retailers (and of course, it contains the same software/manual, etc, just usually more goodies).
Now, would I be adverse to having a way to download a patch or something to 'unlock' the pixelated boobies if I so chose AFTER I purchased the game? No, that'd be fine by me. But as far as marketing and selling the game, the ratings system is what Funcom/EIDOS have to live by, and they WILL conform the game to fit into the 'M'. If walmart/gamestop/et al would carry AO games and display them prominently, Funcom probably wouldn't have cared. If Funcom had chosen to go Eve's route and gone digital download only, they probably wouldn't have cared. But they want box sales. They wanted EIDOS's money to develop the game (takes a lot of bucks to pay people's salaries for years on end and nothing to show for it).
Thu Dec 27 2007 11:22PMThey are supposedly having the filters server side. So they dont really have to make multiple versions. All they would have to do is release one box with an AO rating and have a different set of key codes. The idea is that europe gets nudity and the US gets blood and gore. SImply release an AO version with a seperate key code that gets both. Blood and nudity will be in every version technically, its filtered out depending on location, server side. So the cost of coming up with a different set of tracking numbers shouldnt break funcom or eidos. As you said, they could also do a digital download also.
Fri Dec 28 2007 6:35AMSurely any method of death, like getting stabbed in the back, would have the same effect as being decapitated. The first one will get you a T or M rating, and the second would probably get you an M or AO, depending on what the rest of the game is like. I'll bet that it's possible to get a Conan-like atmosphere even with a T-rating. The atmosphere is about a harsh, primitive world, right? Then brutal violence is really the only important part of it. Nudity and strong language can be mostly done away with.
Fri Dec 28 2007 12:46PM(Sorry for double post) The difference between M and AO is not the time, but the idea. When you think of M, you think of blood and language. When you think of AO, you think of flying guts and explicit nudity.
And you're wrong for thinking that only AO games cater to adults, while the rest are for teenagers and kids.
Fri Dec 28 2007 12:50PMCensorship is for the parents to police NOT the government in ANY way shape or form. To quote one of the greats- "Goverment is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem."
Having said that I don't mind them adding filters and such that can be turned on and off at will. Any parent that lets their 13 year old play an MMO of ANY kind without supervision (Including those geared towards children) are asking for trouble and I have no sympathy for them.
Fri Dec 28 2007 7:19PM-Llamster
Scantily clad to nudity is part of the conan theme. Watch the first movie. Hell, in the first movie if you pay close attention you will see a guy screwing a goat...
Sat Dec 29 2007 1:08AMI am going to have to go with t0nyd on this one. Just a month or two ago in LOTRO we had a parent wanting turbine to take Pipeweed out of the game. No mention of the alcohol she just didnt want her child seeing any form of smoking in the game. Its all a bunch of bs. Parents....be parents, dont rely on the government to do your job for you. Your the ones who had the fun making the baby. Now its your responcibility not mine, the developers or the governments.
Sat Dec 29 2007 1:30AMRates will stop the sales. People who like conan (or similar themes) are very very used with exposed boobies, gore, and crappy movies. Buy a freaking conan magazine, you will see a few boobies and two galons of blood per page.
It's no conan without boobies. Stop complaining.
Sat Dec 29 2007 10:25AMCensorship is undermining the artists vision, people should be open minded. However as people have mentioned it WILL be censored for the US.
A recent example of these dubious morals of more gore, less nekkid women is The Witcher (An awesome singleplayer RPG, I can only recommend, it has the same feel as original conan, its dark, dirty and bloody)
Heres a Screeny of Scensorship in Action. It is done well tho.
DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE NOT 18 YEARS OF AGE - Contains US/Euro Witcher comparison Ingame Screenshot: http://www.spellcraft.biz/witcher/witcherdryad.jpg
Sat Dec 29 2007 12:12PMCensorship is a much misused term. This whole thread is an example of it. Its marketing, not censorship. Typically, the "dreaded" part of censorship is when the (any) government does it. However, in this case, it isn't. Its not involved in this in any way.
Its all about MONEY. Marketing. Not censorship. If I write a book, and decide to remove a couple paragraphs of gratuitous sex/violence, I am not 'censor'ing myself. I'm probably trying to either a) make my book better, b) widen my target audience, or c) both a and b.
Please stop using the word 'censorship', as its being misused far too much already. As people in this very thread have noted, there will be versions of the game with the nudity in it... so if its still in the game, they obviously haven't 'censored' themselves. They are marketing the game to sell the most copies, its as simple as that. If you can't understand that, then finish highschool, go to college, THEN work in the real world for a dozen years, and come back and then talk.
Sat Dec 29 2007 2:02PMEric_w66-
I love how you disagree with someone and you go into a finish highschool to to college, lame ass rant.
If I force you into a ratings system that I invent and i pretty much assure that you will not make any money unless you produce your game the way that i want, its censorship. The idea is that I force you to censor yourself. Its the same thing the federal government did when certain states raised their speed limits. The federal government didnt want the speed limit raised passed 55 (yes this is a long time ago), so they simply with held funding to states that raised it. Most of the states caved...
This isnt fox news man...
Sun Dec 30 2007 9:25PMWatch the film, This Film Is Not Yet Rated. Then come back and honestly say we are not speaking about censorship and fairness in these business practices...
Sun Dec 30 2007 9:28PMI'm sorry that your desires of uncensored things keep you from the buying the game, but I do agree with you. People should be able to buy whatever they want.
Sun Dec 30 2007 9:51PMT0nyd, you keep failing to understand capitalism and marketing and making money. You want what you want, and to hell with everything else. Funcom wants to keep in business and become successful. But you don't care about that. You want pixelated boobies. You don't want Funcom to succeed.
Ok, we get it, already. Please don't buy AoC. I'm sure Funcom will sorely miss you, and the other 5 people who's morals won't let them buy a game without boobies in it.
Wed Jan 02 2008 3:27PMeric_w66
You keep ignoring what I am saying and post mindless drivel like " all you want is pixelated boobies ". When did I say this. Stop with the lame ass conservative propaganda. Not everyone finds nudity offense.
As for your bullshit comments on capitalism and marketing. The reason they leave out gore in Europe is that they are forced to. The reason that they leave out nudity in the US is that they are forced to. If you have not noticed, some movies get ratings far worse then they deserve and some get lower ratings then they should. The ratings system is unfair.
I want Funcom to make a game they choose to make. I do not want Funcom to be forced into changing their game because of bullshit assholes in our government force down their throat. If they dont follow these bullshit rules, they wont make money.
Go troll in another thread and completely ignore whats written and spout inane comments that do not make sense in that thread just like you did here.
Wed Jan 02 2008 11:17PMYou want nudity in AoC:" I will not buy a censored AoC..."
And where did I spout "lame ass conservative propaganda"? Making money is conservative? Wow.
"Not everyone finds nudity offensive". Very true. Has nothing to do with this however. Funcom going for a M rating instead of AO has everything to do with money and nothing to do with offensiveness.
Everything is 'unfair'. Life is 'unfair'. Funcom is not 'forced to change their game because of bullshit assholes in our government.' The government doesn't force it down anyone's throat. Get over your mindless conspiracy theories and break it down to the base issues. Once you do that you'll understand why Funcom did it. You don't want to buy a game without nudity, that's your choice. The government didn't force you to buy it did they? You still have choices to make.
I'm not trolling. Pointing out where you are wrong isn't trolling.
Thu Jan 03 2008 2:25AMEric_w66
Read your comments man, its hard to mistake comments like " all you want is pixelated boobies". Can you make a more childish comment. Is it hard for you to say breasts? My being being that you make inane accusations. I want vulgar language, nudity, and gore in AoC. Im not sure how or why you chose to should " all you want is pixelated boobies ". Do you have poor reading comprehension? This mentally handicapped behavior is called trolling. If you have something real to say, then say it. Leave the childish shit at the door...
Thu Jan 03 2008 11:30PMMMORPG.com writes:
Login or Register to post a comment