Meandering through MMORPG's...

Author: t0nyd

The problem with a all PVP mmo is everyone says they want it but, the truth is they don't.  Look at FURY.  Fury is a game where all you do is pvp.  You Shit, Breath, and Eat PVP.  Where is it now.  Exactly.  Games need to cater to what all different types of gamers want.  IMO that is why WOW is successful, it makes nearly everybody happy.  WAR is the opposite of WOW in respect to game play focus.  WOW is a pve oriented game with pvp after thought.  WAR is a pvp oriented game with pve afterthought.  Honestly, if the game you described ever got released it would tank over night becuase the vast majority of MMO players would find your Ideal MMO bad.  IMO it sounds like your playing in the wrong genre.  If your game got released I believe many gamers would say it is in fact NOT an MMO at all.  Go play Might & Magic or Fury or ANY FPS SHOOTER.  Also, when you reach max lvl in your ideal game and gear doesn't make your character any better.  What goal is left?

~Sarkai

Gear should exist simply in a fashion sense

 TCOS will offer you something on those lines

The average player seems only motivated to accomplish something if and only if it has some reward. Me personally, I go out and look for players to kill because I enjoy doing it.

Not everyone is an sociopath :) Honest, if there is not a goal, PvP itself, becomes as boring as PvE, If the only reason for PvP is to grind some armor, then, is a terrible PvP, probably.

 HardCore PvP players, they want show skill,  not a piece of armor, but, and it is a big BUT, for an carebear, a piece or armor, "epic" is good enough, and u know, as i know, there is many more carebears, than HardCore PvP players thats why there is not MMO atm (besides GW) in wich skill matters, and gears, is redundant, and focus items do not play a major role

I wan't a sandbox game with open PvP (because open PvP is part of a sandbox...)

I don't want grinds for gear.

I don't want quests.

I want to log in and have people actually, gee I don't know, playing the game.  Not people hurrying as fast as they can through the levels, for the next peice of equipment.  If having people be able to kill each other is the only way to have them interact, then so be it.

 doobster nails it.

Same here.

The game your describing is allready out. It's called Fury.  Go buy it for 10 bucks.

Im partially with ya doobster.

I want a sandbox game with open PvP

I dont want to grind for gear. I want gear to be 20% of your overall effectiveness, nothing more.

I want quests to exist. I just dont want to be forced into them. I want a new style of questing. You do shit, then your rewarded for it. You see a bunch of goblins kidnap a child, you chase em, kill em, and save the child. You are rewarded for it. Not the normal, hi, im a retard with a big exclamation over my head, click me, get a quest, kill 20 pigs...

-Xsarkaix

Come on dude, fury is obviously not an mmorpg.

 " also if you reach max level in your ideal game and gear doesnt make your character any better. What goal is left? "

 Dude, your the type of gamer that im talking about. I play games if they are fun. You obviously play games for gear. Hmm, when i max level, i play the game still. If there isnt a game at max level, then well, dont play that game. If gearing is all you can do at max level, that game is not for me.

I do not play games for gear.  I just look at the arguement from all perspectives and gear needs to have at least a little impact on games.  Personally I am 100% about skill based MMOs.  No I do not play wow and yes I own CE WAR.  Your correct gearing should not be all you do at max lvl because then whats the goal after that?  Fury is not an MMO but, it is closer to the OPs description then any MMO including WAR.  I only play games if they are fun.  Mindless killing is in a MMO package is not always fun.  I leave that to FPS.  At max lvl there should still be a way to progress past gear and currently PVP at max lvl in WAR only gives you gear.  

~Sarkai

P.S. (Off-topic)WAR is not fun.  Who wants to capture the bauble all day.  Not me. 

I do agree that gear should be a factor.  I should be geared up and ready for battle after spending a few gold with a player crafter over at the blacksmith.  Richer people or those who spend their time dungeon crawling should have access to some slightly more powerful magic gear.

Hey nothing wrong with the type of quest you mentioned, sounds good to me.  Might be a few coding barriers to something like that, depending on a few things, but just as long as the dev's don't worry too much about them and focus on other asepcts of the game sounds be dandy with me ;)

People still play old ultima online shards with less gear driven gameplay, fighting anywhere, and full looting. It's not mindless killing, it's more realistic, and there's tons of roleplaying clans that agree.

 There is a difference between mindlessly slashing about FPS style, having a PvP campaign with PvP goals (ala control point sieges and such, things that effect the game world in a meaningful way), and even just PvP in a sandbox game. PvP in UO had ramifications, PvP in DAoC and RF Online had ramifications. However, when the result of PvP is completely negligable, then I wouldn't say there's less incentive to do it, but it wouldn't hold interest for very long.

I agree, the people who let keeps get taken just so they can capture them again for the PQ loot are rediculous and the gear grinders who only care about their own gear and leveling don't "get it" as it were. At the same time though, I think its a bit too far to say there should be no goals at all, perhaps no real rewards, or direct rewards, or even just frequent rewards, but no goals at all and you end up with an FPS with swords, and if I wanted that, I could just install Rune again (which mind you, was awesome, but is still not the same as dynamically changing a persistant game world with your actions.)

So thats why Guild Wars is the best MMO game ever made imo.Skill based pvp instead of item+gear based pvp for those who love to spend hours gr?nd?ng and get the?r fuck?ng epic shit and th?nk that they are ready for pvp and will be successfull at it.For those who didn't meet GW yet,there are of course stats on items and gears but on max levels of each category of items and gear,they are equal.For example Monk armors are weaker than Warrior armors by he factor of Armor Level naturally,yet on their max levels all monk armors are equal accept their appereance.This system is same for the items such as axes,hammers,swords,shields,canes,focuses etc..

So what is there left?Its you and your personal accomplishments on understanding and knowing the capabilities and skills of the class you play.

Even if there are some imbalanced effects of certain skills and builds,guild wars has the most balanced pvp among all other mmos considering classes and skills.

As last,i think if you want to play an mmo game you should get your ass up ready for pvp because MMO's without pvp just don't make sense actually any online game without pvp just dont make sense.

one word for you:

Darkfall

One problem with this, indeed any open PvP game, is they being on your guard any time you're in the game world is tiring. People tend to log off after an hour or so. The only way to prevent this is to provide players with a sense of safety such as a safezone, or guards, or just having a big world that's mostly empty of players. That's carebear and defeats the purpose of open PvP. The other problem is everyone wants to be the agressor no one wants to be the victim. So if  someone begins to lose more often that they win the game isn't fun any more. You'll find that many players will do anything not to lose and in the process they'll do things that make the game unfun for everyone.

I never ask for pvp.  Very few people that I have played with  in 6 years of MMORPG gaming have ever ask to have PVP shuved up our perverbial backsides, but we got it anyway with the idea that its what "everyone" wants pushed on us over and over again until like some cheetos commercial  where we are supposed to just accept that we like it.     I heard it all the time in EQ, EQ2, WoW and other games I have played.   People hate it when pvp walkes all over the pve game.   Some people on  forums however do not want to hear it.  So if you try to suggest anything but PVP is god they attack you and bully away anyone who tries to suggest that its not the most important thing in a game.   I'm always on the look out for a game that has its own path rather than following the template currently in place.   Its long over due.

This is why I like the system in Guild Wars. In the end, gear doesn't matter because everyone gets max gear eventually (and by eventually, I mean you either play through the game or PvP for it, which gives you max gear, you just need to get the nice addons). In PvE, yeah there is a bit of a grind for PvE only skills and crap, but that is for those people that want to do PvE. For PvP, you play PvP because you want to. The only thing it doesn't offer is truly large scale epic battles, because the current technology doesn't support it. Also, it is a heavily instanced game. That doesn't bother me as much though.

I also liked the system used in Fury, except that it was horribly balanced. That, with the fact it had so many bugs, is why I think it really tanked. If it could have gotten even 1-5k steady subscribers, it would have probably stayed afloat. But even the people that wanted it couldn't play, because of the bugs and the horrible balance. The gear did matter in that game though, which didn't help when you got put in a battle against people with 4k more life than you.

I think if you took a system like what GW has, throw in larger scale battles and a few more interesting nuances (more abilities to chain skills, play off of your teammates, etc), you might almost have the game you want.

Note,a persistant world is also nice :P

The first comment on this blog is the reason few PvP games are made. Seriously once you get your base skills capped, there is nothing to look foward to. Run around PvPing aimlessly for what. There is no real sticking power in PvP games. Sure there is going to be a few hardcore members, but is there really enough to keep the game afloat for years to come? Darkfall and mortal online will tell us alot. They will start very strong, but where will they be 6-8 months after release?

I've been playing MMO's since there inception. If you've heard of the title then chances are i've played it. If the game doesn't have PVP as its primary endgame or game in general i don't want any part of it. I'm DONE with gear and level grind. I want to gain rank/gear by killing other players. If the only way to level and gain gear or skills is by PVP then so be it.

Last hope was WAR. Enter game, game empty, everybody in capture the flag scenarios. BORING. so you either grind mobs or scenarios and both are about as exciting as the other.

@ Toddze: I played DAOC for several years without leveling anything. My RVR hunter was ranked top 10 on my server. . I logged on and PVP'd . We took and lost objectives but the main fight was PVP fighting for territory. People want PVP with land to fight over. They don't want rules.  To say they wont last is not correct. It's the human competetive element of games that keeps people coming back and not the  go kill 12 bears for 16 years so you can admire your shiny sword that keep people coming back

@ Vistaakah

 I agree with 99% of your statement. The only part that I contest is...

 " Its the human competetive element of games that keeps people coming back and not the go kill 12 bears for 16 years so you can admire your shiny sword that keep people coming back "

  Since the creation of Diablo, the average mentality of a rpg gamer has changed a lot. People dont seem to really care for a challenge anymore. People want new lootz. People want to test new abilites. People want as huge of an advantage as they can get in PvP so that their is no chance of losing.

 The main diference between FPS players and RPG players is the skill vs gear factor. FPS players want skill to decide the outcome of a battle. RPG players want their invested time and phat lootz to determine the outcome of a battle. I know a bunch of retards are going to flame me for this, but WoW proves this point.

t0nyd -

Ha ha.. the first comment said you want a FPS.  How predictable can you get?

Good post.  Keep'em coming.  I know you've got the time.

- LC

I want all kinds of games that aims for certain players. In that case I can play exactly what I want with likeminded.

I don't want games like Wow that aims for everyone, it can never be as good as a game particulary made for certain players, off course it will never be as big as wow then.

And I can play 2 or even 3 specific games to get exactly what I want.