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My Ideas on what it takes for an Open World PvP game to succeed.

Posted by t0nyd Saturday November 29 2008 at 7:05PM
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  Lets start off by defining succeed. I believe that to succeed, you need to break the niche market population threshold. I would guesstimate that threshold being around 250,000 subscribers.

 

The Advancement Method

   I am not trying to promote a level or skill based system. I believe that either system is viable. Lets start with ability gain. I am tired of the standard, you level, you get this ability, routine. What I would prefer is you level, choose which ability or skill that you want from this list. This way, the player has the final say in what his play style will be even at low levels of play. I am tired of companies forcing a play style on you, then allowing you a choice when you max level.

   I would start by giving the player a large amount of hit points. As you level, you gain hitpoints in small increments and by allocating points to it. This way, how much hit points a player has is his/her choice and not determined by the game and gear that you wear. Every level the player should get a quantity of stat and a quantity of skill points to spend as they see fit. They could spend these skill points to attain new skills or to make existing skill more powerful. This will allow to a player to build a character depending on their own playstyle.

 

 Killing Players and Mobs

   Advancing through experience gain should not be a ponderously slow event. Killing mobs and players should both be rewarding. The idea is mix player and mob killing to the point that they are viewed the same. I believe a mob should not be a simple, i kill it, im at full health still, kind of ordeal. Every mob should have its own abilities that make it a worth while opponent. When fighting a mob, you should think, is this a mob or is this a player?

  Yes, you will get ganked. You will be attacking a mob and a player will come out of nowhere and gank you. This is an open world PvP game. Thats life. The fight should be interesting if you built your character to deal with situations like this. Fighting an even level opponent and an even level mob should end up in a loss for you, that is, unless you created your character in a way to deal with these situations. If you built your character to be the uber healer with no escape measures, well, thats your choice, deal with it. If you build a character to work effectively in a group, than group.

 

 PvP based Objectives

   I do not believe a good PvP based game can survive with out good PvE content. I am not saying that there should be 40 man raids. Mobs must interact and behave like that of a player. I believe that at the beginning of a good open RvR world that the player factions should start small. I believe that NPC factions should hold all the PvP goals until taken by a player faction. After taken by the players, then it is up to them to defend that goal. Mobs may be implemented to help guard a goal. Guard mobs should not respawn every 5 secs like in WAR. If the players dont actively defend a goal, they lose the goal. The guild that takes a node would determine how guards are placed to defend that node and they would be subject to the benefits and negatives given for keeping or losing this node.

 

 Defining a Characters Potential

  As your character progresses through the game, your defining characteristics should not be, your level and your gear. Your defining characteristics should be from the choices that you made when developing your character. Maybe you spent heavy on a hit point based build. Maybe you focused on stats that increase your offensive or healing abilities. Options should be there and they should determine your characters focus. If you want to make a nuke/healer hybrid, by all means, go for it. The point is, the game should not define your character. The point of an mmorpg, is to create a character that you wish to roleplay.

 

 Equipment

  Equipment should not play a major role in the sense that it does today. Yes, chainmail should be a more effective defense than a robe. Yes this should be a defining choice in how your character plays. No, 50% of your hit points should not come from the items you wear/wield. I can understand incremental gains from equipment, when it relates to statistics. I want options. Games such as WoW use equipment as the focus for play. I believe that in a good open world PvP game, open world PvP should be the focus. Gear should play a part, but not as a primary role.

  I also believe in a well balanced crafting system. I believe that the best gear should come from player crafters. This also allows for mining nodes to be placed and fought for in open world PvP. These nodes wouldnt be only for crafting gear, but also seige equipment.

 

 

Open world PvP will always fail, and here is why...

Posted by t0nyd Thursday November 27 2008 at 8:08PM
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  I will start by saying, I want a good open world PvP game to succeed. In my opinion, no company will ever create an open world PvP mmorpg that will succeed. Here are my reasons...

  Advancement Systems in MMORPG's

   I would say that most, if not all mmorpg's have an advancement system catered toward massive gains stretched out through several levels. World of Warcraft as an example, in this game there is a massive difference between characters from level 1 to level 60. A level 1 would be a one shot one kill if attacked by a level 60. This alone will ruin PvP in most every aspect of the game. How do you level, when every monster node is camped by a level 60. You cant. You will die repeatedly. You will get frustrated and quit.

  The Fix

  The fix is very simple. Spread advancement through out the levels in a logical fashion. One level 60 should be a good fight VS two level 30s. Why is it that in most mmorpg's a level 60 would roll two level 30s with little to no thought? If 60 level 1s attacked a level 60, now that should be an interesting fight and not a complete slaughter with the level 60 winning with out even being damaged. Outright resists all of spell damage is absurd in most games when dealing with massive level differences. Its one thing that a mage of 60 will do vast amounts of damage when compared to a mage of 30. Its even more absurd when the mage of 30 might not even land a single spell vs the mage of 60.

   So the fix is simple, yes levels should matter. No, levels should not guarantee victory. Simply put, the gains from leveling should be smaller and spread out through out the leveling process.

  Advancing through Equipment

  Since the creation of Diablo there now exists in an overwhelming number of mmorpg's, a new advancement system. This advancement system is based upon equipment. It seems that the equipment that your character uses is almost if not more important than your characters level. When half your characters overall power is gained through the gear he wears and wields and this gear is only wearable at specific levels, you have a big problem on your hands. Now a level 60 VS a level 60 is open up to massive differences in power.

  The Fix

  Equipment should be what it is. A sword is a tool and a tool is only as good as its user. A better skilled opponent should win vs a lesser skill opponent wielding a sharper sword. I do understand that some swords are of better quality than other swords. Yet, this should not be where the majority of a characters power lies. Equipment should matter, i just dont believe that equipment should be half of a characters overall power.

   Summary

    In the end its all where you want character power placed. In a fight who do you want to win, the higher level, the better geared, or the better played character. How much importance should level, gear, and intelligent play in an MMORPG. My opinion, 40% level, 20% gear, 40% intelligent play. This is a mmorpg. I believe that even the most intelligent play shouldnt overcome that of a massive level and gear difference. Altho i do believe in group play, intelligent play should overcome a few with massive level differences. Simply put, 1v1, a 60 VS a 30 should be a no brainer, but two 30s VS a 60 should be a hard fought battle.

So what do you think the ratio between, level, gear, and intelligent play should be...

 

Do we really want a PvP MMO...

Posted by t0nyd Monday November 24 2008 at 11:49PM
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Do gamers really want what they ask for. I myself believe that I want a true PvP MMO. When I log into WAR, i expect to breath, eat, and shit PvP. I want to level up by killing players. I want to gear up by killing players. The only time I want to enter a non PvP zone is to buy and sell shit. The problem is War does not completely cater to this gaming mentality. The question is, should it?

As I see it, 90% of the MMO populace do not want a PvP MMO. Here are the reasons why I believe that they do not want PvP.

Item Driven Gaming.

  The average player seems to prefer wasting hours grinding for equipment. In every MMO that I have played, this requires massive amounts of PvE. Even in a game such as WAR, your better of in PvE land for most of your equipment needs. Look at DAoC, you can level up fast in BG's but dont expect to gear there. I just dont understand the fun in grinding for equipment. I really could give a fuck about gear in general. I do what is necessary to fuel my PvP addiction. I also refuse to spend hours doing shit that I hate, to enjoy myself for a few minutes, simply to level out of that gear and have to do it all over again,

 In my opinion its time for games to move past item driven gaming. Im fine with gear existing. Im just not fine with 75% of a characters total power being tied up into what they wear. Id prefer the character have more of a hand in what defines their power. Players actually deciding where to place stat points would be my prefered method or stats raise as you use them.

 Gear should exist simply in a fashion sense. Yes, chainmail should be more beneficial than robes in a you just got hit with a fucking axe situation. I do believe that not all swords are created equal. I am fine with minor diferences between items. I would just prefer that logic prevail in that, its not the sword thats skilled, its the wielder of the sword. In a match between two evenly skilled opponents, then the small differences in equipment would be there to help define an outcome and not overwhelm a situation like in most MMO's today.

Goal Driven Gaming.

 The average player seems only motivated to accomplish something if and only if it has some reward. Me personally, I go out and look for players to kill because I enjoy doing it.

WAR's open RvR areas were simply dead for the longest time. What changed this? They added goals. Yes you could take a keep, but there wasnt much worth in it, so players didnt participate. With events such as the holloween event and heavy metal, people have more of a reason to participate in open RvR. So now they do. This suggests that players do not participate in Open RvR because they enjoy it. They only participate in it because there is some kind of gain from it.

I do believe goals should exist. I do believe in a risk vs reward scenario where the player who risks the most should get the most rewards. What I do not believe in is the fact that MMO's today are all about wasting time. They want your money, so they find ways to make you waste time. Rest experience for example. This isnt a risk vs reward mentality. This is a, im going to slow xp gain up, then slowly give you bonus xp accumulation for not fucking playing. This way it takes longer to level a character up, because your rewarded for not fucking playin. Whats the risk for not playing.

Summary

I PvP because I enjoy it. I dont PvP to level (altho I do believe you should level through it). I dont PvP because thats where the leet equipment is (altho ...). When I enter open world RvR areas, its dead. When I hear people complain it about world RvR it usually ends up in a " i dont get leet gear " discussion. When I click a scenario I can count on it to pop in 30 seconds. Obviously, its the fastest way to level. I believe this pretty much proves my point...

More Thoughts On WAR...

Posted by t0nyd Saturday November 22 2008 at 11:24PM
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   As of now I have four characters in T2 and 1 character in T3. I get bored of playing the same class over and over and I find it much more entertaining to spread out my playtime between several different characters. With this latest even (Heavy Metal), it made me feel like Mythic is going to pull the same trick every game company does. They are going to try and Shock and Awe us.

  I just dont understand this mentality. I see several glaring problems with this game.

 Morale abilities still dont fucking work when you press the button. I mean seriously. This is like a core game mechanic and it still doesnt work? So your going to throw out two more classes when core mechanics still dont work? Its like building a jet and designing a cool new directional thrust system when the plane dont even fly yet.

 This also brings to mind that certain classes are broken or better yet, unfinished. My main is an engineer. I have plenty of problems with this class. I love the idea of it. If you want to have any significant effect it seems your forced into grenades. Your abilities will focus on spreading out damage. So mostly, you wont feel like your accomplishing a lot til you see the damage counter at the end of the scenario. Specing rifle makes you feel like you should have rolled a Bright Wizard like 90% of your server did. I love knockbacks. As annoying as they can be, knockbacks are what an Engineer is good at. To bad your best knockback is a morale ability and you can not rely on it to even work. Example in crater t3, i aoe rooted this shaman so i could aim the punt correctly. Ten fucking seconds of pounding the fucking button and he walks away. I chased him til about 40 secs later I die and the damn ability didnt ever go off...

 I wont get into the fact that Shadow warriors, Squigs, and Magus are so ineffectual its a joke. I wont get into the fact that most of these classes can not solo a tank or a healer, unless the tank/healer is a complete retard or you outlevel them by a decent amount. I wont get into the fact that every time i play this game i get stuck inside some object multiple times and have to log out.

I will bring up the horrible maps and the problems that they cause. This is especially a problem on a lot of scenarios. I mean, seriously, lets put a huge cliff at the beginning of every fucking scenario. Lets also crank up fall damage to a rediculous amount. I would say 5/10 times when i walk off the start area in crater, i wont begin to heal for 30+ seconds. The other 5 times I insta heal all the damage. So basically 50% of the time I enter combat half dead. Heh. Moronic map designs or is it rediculous fall damage.

So with all these problems why release two more classes. Why not fix whats here, then add new content. With all that said...

 WAR brings a lot to the table as far as PvP goes. I play this game to PvP and it does try to cater to that. Leveling through PvP is much better than when the game released. World PvP is decent on my server. Senarios are still the main form of leveling, but they are making strides to correct this. I just hope they actually fix the core problems with this game. I would hate to see them pull a Warcraft and simply ignore problems and try to distract us with new game content.