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PvP MMORPG's, are they real?

Posted by t0nyd Thursday October 14 2010 at 4:39PM
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** I wrote this article back in 2008. I find it funny that, in my opinion, it is still relevant to todays MMO scene, mildly updated

 First off let me start by defining what I believe should be in a PvP MMORPG.

  • Level Advancement through PvP

              For me to call an MMORPG a PvP game, I want to be able to level from 1 to max through PvP. I am not saying that I believe no PvE should exist. I am just saying that I believe if I choose to, that I should be able to gain EXP and advance through the killing of other players in as timely a manner as PvE.

  • Questing through PvP

              Why does it always have to be kill (insert number) of pigs/rabbits. Why cant kill (insert number) of orcs mean orc players as well. Why cant there be a quest to take a keep from an opposing faction. Why do games never seem to include PvP quests at all. Im not talking about WoW and its lame as hell BG quests. Personally I dont define real PvP as being in instances, but I will get to that later.

  • Gear obtainment through PvP

               Why must I waste countless hours killing generic mobs and running generic instances to get equipment just to compete at PvP. A nice shield should be a nice shield, but should it be so much better that it gives you 1000 more hps? How does a shield give you more health? What happened to the days of " armor is armor " in rpgs. Yeah, equipment should matter. The question is, how much should it matter? I believe that skill should trump equipment any day. I also believe that you should obtain useful equipment doing what it is that you like doing, be that crafting, killing mobs, killing players, and heal/support.

  • World PvP and objectives

               Why do games avoid world PvP. Why do games avoid actual objectives in world PvP. Back when WoW was released I loved fighting over South Shore. To bad South Shore wasnt some objective. To bad SS and Tarren Mill couldnt be conquered by either faction. This might actually involve players enjoying themselves so we cant have that. Instead lets make little isolated areas called instances and lets have the players fight there. Also lets not have these little instances matter at all, in the scheme of things. Great concept, err no...

  • Player choice and skill trumps all

                I believe in the concept that your decisions when crafting and molding your character should have a big effect on how powerful your character becomes. I believe your choices, whether they be talents, attribute points, or skills should matter a lot more than what gloves you choose to wear. Should a majority of your hit points come from your gear or from the attributes that you chose to spend? I believe player choice should trump gear. If you choose to build a character with tons of hit points, i believe you should have that option and I dont believe it should simply come from your equipment. Altho we could go with the WoW simplicity of, the game spends your attribute points for you. Id prefer not.

  Oh well, just some ranting...:)

Niactz writes:

Hey! I SOOO agree with you. With everything you just said...That's exactly what I've been thinking since I played my first mmorpg!

Maybe I didn't search well enough, but...I didn't find any mmorpg that had those requirements about pvp. Anyone found one?

Fri Oct 15 2010 5:20PM Report
reafear writes:

I gotta say, it's cool that you mention players should trump however, you need to realize that in most PvP mmo's it happens like that. Players need to beat other players to get better gear. Yes the gear does make up for a lot of the game play, so what. it's a challenge I find, something you set your sights to, something that costs a lot, forces you to get better TOO trump those players that have slightly better gear. I agree, player attributes need to be effective, but the gear is also a main staple, it'd also be cool if you could take cities and hold them ( I managed to nab a beta key for MoW, and I believe that is what it's centered around (player-player combat) it's a mmorts though). the point is;

1. you should be able to level through PvP

2.there definitely should be quests through PvP 

3. no gear should forever be a main staple in PvP, because it shows a persons dedication and talent in that, and how well they've done.

4. there should be open world PvP, not just secluded matches.

5. the gloves you wear, well they show that you do have the skill. the skill to beat other players to get the stuff to make it so you're better.

Fri Oct 15 2010 5:46PM Report
carluce writes:

sound like you want to play darkfall

Fri Oct 15 2010 11:28PM Report
rwmiller writes:

The main problem is that while people love to PK others they hate getting PK'd themselves. If they do it then it is a skilled attack but when they get killed they have been ganked. PvP requires the ability to shrug it off and move on and most players now days don't or won't tolerate anyone or anything that frustrates them.

Sun Oct 17 2010 7:18AM Report
Shinami writes:

Risk Your Life allowed you to get Fame Levels which were invisible levels. There was some unbalance in the game but you had player choice in throwing attributes to the character and it ran with first person shooter controls....

 

A game both sides of the war got involved in their roleplaying. 

 

As long as PvP is LEVEL-BASED, it will always be unfair. The reason FPS games are popular in multiplayer is due to how players think and roleplay their characters more to their profession. You can have all weapons in inventory in a shooter and get sniped or killed easilly....forcing players to think of strategy and tech-tweaks on their systems...

 

Due to this FPS games put their skill on the player and dependent on the player, his practice, technologies and configurations. RPGs put your success rate based on the system. The system ITSELF will always handle all the damage zones and hit locations and Levels + Attributes get in the way. 

 

I can be level 30 and you can be level 10 and even if you have a super armor, usually you will have an attribute or level restriction on armor...in some way. Of course If I had crummy equipment on a level 30 character, I can still win against your character simply because of the 20 level difference in attributes.

 

MMORPGs force you to level up to the same level before PvP can begin and once PvP begins you have to deal with MAXED OUT PvP players and Entry Level PvP. 

 

In the time it takes to LEVEL UP in an MMORPG, gather equipment, farm and reach the ability to enter PvP, I can play a first person shooter game and even enter and win some regional tournaments or at least place high in them because fate is based on my skill and I can easilly get into it....

Mon Oct 18 2010 4:07AM Report
falcaogj writes: The main problem is that while people love to PK others they hate getting PK'd themselves. If they do it then it is a skilled attack but when they get killed they have been ganked. PvP requires the ability to shrug it off and move on and most players now days don't or won't tolerate anyone or anything that frustrates them. ^^^ What he said In my words, a lot of people talk a good game when it comes to PVP. They say they want open world, they say they want no restrictions. When in fact they die, all they want the designers to do is develop more and more rulesets to protect them. Even one of the suggestions made about killing x number of Orc chars (people) has been done with writs in eq2 people just bitched and moaned about how difficult it was to find XXX class. What it boils down to is most people cant hack PVP servers in the long term. Mon Oct 18 2010 8:19AM Report
Master10K writes:

The funny thing here is that pretty much every single point you mentioned will be dealt with in the upcoming Guild Wars 2. I'm no expert, but this is just purely from the facts I've gathered about the game in development.

  • Level Advancement through PvP
If you want, you'll be able to take your "fresh out the tutorial character" (or maybe after some intial quest), from PvE into World PvP. From there you can level up but it's not wise, since you'll likely encounter better equiped players.
  • Questing through PvP & World PvP and objectives
In World PvP the overall goal would be World Supremacy over the other two Server factions but there will also be mini-quest/objectives like: Take over village A, take over mine B or establish a keep with your fellow Guild members. All of which will help benefit your faction/server.
  • Gear obtainment through PvP & Player choice and skill trumps all
If you don't like having to grind out PvE to be able to obtain gear for PvP, well you don't have to in GW2. There will be Structed PvP where everyone plays with a maxed level character of their choosing and compete in 5 v 5, skill-driven matches.
 
So yeah... Guild Wars 2 is looking to perfect both the PvE & PvP areas of the MMORPG genre, since it'll offer something for everyone and this isn't even the entirety of what the PvP would have to offer upon release. ArenaNet just loves to keep key features a secret.
Mon Oct 18 2010 8:45AM Report
Soultice writes:

Ahh the venerable PVP rant.  I love to PVP but the basic problem is and always is gear and levels usually determine the outcome and PVP players do not want penalties for their actions.

I love some of your ideas and I too remember the great fights we have in Tarren Mills, until players with more time on their hands and were level 40 would came there and basically killed everyone and the killed the quest mobs.  Blizzard then had to revemp the system.

Any game developer nees to retain paying customers and a select few ruin for others.  PKing players close to your level or character progression is fun and challenging.  PKing starter zones or players alot lower then you is not PKing and is nothing more then griefing others that are trying to enjoy a game.  Yes PVP is still a game and I prefer to play PVP games.  I do not however want some jerk with the best gear and alot higher then me griefing me just because they can do so.

Thus the dilemma. Every pvp game has had to revemp it rulesets due to this problem.  No matter how much we love PVP, players leaving due to this problem will continue to plague games.

Tue Oct 19 2010 9:22AM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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