Obviously, i quoted him in red. My responses are based solely on the fact that they admit they want us, as players, to be able to advance solely from RvR if we choose. So you PvE fanatics need not reply. I believe equivalence should exist between RvR and PvE.
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" The renown gear isn’t meant to be the strongest equipment in the game (as many of those players were supposing). It’s there to make sure that players who advance solely through RvR and don’t do quests have access to gear that is similar to what a PvE player would get. "
This seems to be an incorrect statement. For tier 1 there are several pieces of equipment not attainable with renown rank. These pieces include a cloak, a helm, main armor, shoulders etc. These items are attainable for tier 1 from PvE.
So, for people like me, who want to level solely through RvR, wouldnt it be nice to have such gear made attainable from renown and RvR mobs/players?
" That being said, at the top of each tier in the game there is an RvR armor set of those players that just haven’t really been discovered yet. This armor is actually the most powerful stuff you can get for the tier. "
This seems to be another incorrect statement. My character (a black orc named kruunk) had far superior equipment to this gear at level 11. You can do a character search on him now, he is level 13 with mostly level 11 gear. Kruunk, black orc, red eye mountain. This shows that PvE gear is far superior to renown gear.
Another problem with renown gear is how it is attained and the requirements to wear it. Mostly my characters are 1 level apart when comparing level to renown rank. Most renown gear requires several levels higher in level than renown gear to wear. Experience gain from world RvR is slow. This forces you to run scenarios to advance. So, in turn, i end up having the renown rank to wear decent equipment, but not the level requirement to wear this equipment.
In tier 1, having a bunch of no geared level 1-6s pretty much guarantees a loss. This is mainly because there is no real renown gear for tier 1 and the starting gear is nonexistent. When reaching level 12 and going over to tier 2, how can you possibly compete if your missing a helm, shoulders, cloak, etc, that you can not gain from tier 1 RvR play? From the beginning of tier 2 (level 12) up to level 14, you still do not have a cloak, helm, shoulders, etc gained from renown rank.
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In closing, all i ask for is three things.
1. Equivalent gear for RvR players who do not want to quest or grind PQs.
If you force me to PvE to gain gear, your defeating my reason for playing the game.
2. Decent rate of advancement for RvR players in World RvR.
Now I am not asking for equivalence with PvE. I just want a decent ammount of XP gain.
3. A method of turning your experience gain off.
I would like to hit to cap for each tier, then sit there for a bit and enjoy the RvR before advancing beyond the tier.
You still do compete missing a helm cloak and shoulders. I did and believe me I'm not the greatest player that ever lived. Gear does mean something but It's not gonna be a decent excuse for you at any level of play in this game.
Wed Oct 08 2008 12:16PMI think the developers made a stupid oversight in providing a trophy as and early quest item, but didn't give you anything to hang it from. Really, what was the point?
Wed Oct 08 2008 2:29PMUnicorns_Pwn --
Your ignoring the entire post...
Fact 1: jeff said renown gear exists so RvRers get similiar gear to PvE
The game does not meet this observation.
Fact 2: RvR players missing a helm, cloak, and shoulders, give PvE players an advantage in RvR.
How can you justify any advantage in RvR for PvE players?
I simply ask for equality in gear distribution and you spout nonsense about how gear isnt that important. Let me guess, you must primarily PvE...
Wed Oct 08 2008 2:32PMThere's more to the game than tier 1, I think. I'm pretty sure that Jeff had in mind people that are advancing through RvR and not staying in the same tier all the time to do open RvR. As you're well aware of, renown ranks, obtained strictly through RvR, is used to obtain gear that will eventually be similar to its PvE counter-parts.
Normally, I don't do quests at all, so I spend all my time RvRing. But I also do research on gear I know I can't get in a specific tier so that I can find a good place where I might have a decent chance of getting it(a certain PQ, or a very specific quest). Spending all of 3 minutes doing one quest is not going to kill my RvR buzz, or whatever you think it'll do.
Gear on the lower tiers is even less important than you seem to think. Because this is a game where gear is easily attainable through RvR, you'll often have people running around in identical gear, meaning a marauder and its white lion counter-part can end up(if they're the same level) with the exact same stats(putting emphasis on their maneuvering and skill usage rather than their gear).
Gear gives you an advantage, and no one wants to deny that, so I'm going to add this here before you jump at me and call me an insane lunatic.
On another note, money is so incredibly easy to come along in this game. Doing the T2 repeatable quest I racked up enough money for two mounts before I could even buy one. Needless to say, if you don't want to PvE, you can simply buy gear that appeals to you better at the AH.
As stated earlier, joining a guild will also ensure that someone has a spare piece of gear they find here and there that you might find useful. I spent an hour once AoE grinding dwarves at the Greenskin Ch9 on my marauder, and got about 20 greens and a couple of blues for various classes that I placed in the guild vault. It rains gear and money in Warhammer Online.
Wed Oct 08 2008 2:33PMNotArkard--
Now your saying there is more than tier 1, but if you read my entire posting, how can you go into tier 2 with the little to no equipment that you have gained from tier 1. If I entered RvR from level 1 (which I dont recommend) and did nothing but RvR, my gear would be total trash.
Finding gear on the AH on my sever is a no go. The AH isnt being used yet. Also, if im willing to put in the time, i should be able to get my own gear from RvR. I am willing to put in the time. The gear simply isnt there.
So now your saying, simply spend 3 minutes doing a quest for an item. Thats laughable. As you advance passed tier 1, less and less items are given out from questing and it becomes more based on PQs. Getting decent equipment from a PQ can take as little as 10 mins up to an hour. I am not going to waste hours doing something that I dont enjoy.
Also on that note, the green drop you get from a quest or from a renown vendor is going to be inferior to the blue or purple drop from a PQ. This is not what I call gear equivalence between RvR and PvE.
Wed Oct 08 2008 2:41PMRead this until it sinks in...
" The renown gear isn’t meant to be the strongest equipment in the game (as many of those players were supposing). It’s there to make sure that players who advance solely through RvR and don’t do quests have access to gear that is similar to what a PvE player would get. "
When mythic tells me this, i expect it to happen. Now it was reversed. If little gear was gained through PvE and pretty much everything was from renown, this board would be full of PvE players throwing a fit. I am just asking mythic to do what it has stated that it would do. Gear equivalence throughout the entire game. Not simply, gear equivalence at end game.
Wed Oct 08 2008 2:53PMSo your ultimate complaint is that you want to have a helmet in Tier 1? Well, we can't all be rational, I guess.
Wed Oct 08 2008 3:32PMSo your ultimate complaint is that you want to have a helmet in Tier 1? Well, we can't all be rational, I guess.
That is a complete and total oversimplification of the OP's point. But this is often what idiots do. Oversimplify, change the argument, make up facts, ignore the facts... yeah, this is why it is pointless to even discuss such things with the public. Collectively, you're a bunch of morons with the inability to think outside of your own personal preferences and experiences. Not your fault, you were probably just raised that way.
Go back and reread everything t0nyd has written. He makes a valid point.
That said, it would be nice if WAR, a supposedly PvP centric game, actually treated PvP as an equal to PvE. Maybe they will correct this problem and allow those who want to PvE to do so, and those who want to PvP to do so. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
- LC
Wed Oct 08 2008 5:05PMAh, personal attacks. The ace-in-the-hole for the simpleton with absolutely nothing constructive to say. It's not your fault, though, you were probably raised that way. You know what they say: "...a fool [speaks] because he has to say something."
Oversimplification? I would like to quote, but it seems he has already removed a couple of his comments here. Nevertheless, he has said his main complaint is that people without a helmet, cloak, and shoulders are at a disadvantage in tier 1, and that there should be renown gear for those slots in that tier.
Is PvE gear superior to PvP gear? Questionable, as PvE gear is arranged diferently than renown gear. For example, my marauder's belt usually tends to have wounds on it, whereas a belt I would get from a PQ would have strength stacked in there.
"It doesn't have to be one or the other."
You sure you're on the OP's side? Because this is exactly my point. The OP wants to obtain gear solely through RvR, without having to touch a single quest(called it "laughable"). The game requires a good mix of doing PQs, quests, and RvRing in order to create the best combination of gear possible.
To simplify, simpleton, I'll quote a good man:
"The renown gear isn't meant to be the strongest equipment in the game ... It's there to make sure that players who advance solely through RvR and don't do quests have access to gear that is SIMILAR to what a person [who advances solely through PvE quests] would get."
You need a combination of both elements to have the best gear that you can have. Someone who does solely PvE will not have RRs, and will not have access to renown gear until he starts PvPing. As such, he runs the very probable risk of losing rolls on PQs, getting all green bags with crappy gear, etc, etc.
i.e.: The OP's point is moot, as a PvE player could very easily complain that he wants to only quest, and that he's constantly getting crappy gear, whereas RvR players get a constant surplus of gear as they level up and get RRs. What would you tell that guy? To go play something else? I would, too, and that's what I'd tell the OP.
Wed Oct 08 2008 5:46PMNotArkard--
Are you one of those morons who argues simply to argue. Read the fucking quote. You quoted it. " It's there to make sure that players who advance solely through RvR and don't do quests have access to gear that is SIMILAR to what a person [who advances solely through PvE quests] would get. "
You quoted that. Does that not fucking say players who advance solely through RvR, and dont do quests have access to gear that is similar to what a person who advances solely through PvE would get. So if a player can not get a helm, cloak, or shoulders from RvR, how the fuck does that quote make sense? So if the best RvR item from tier 1 is far inferior to the best PvE item for tier 1, how the fuck does that quote make sense?
When you post a fucking quote, read the fucking quote. Lets get back to NotArkards retardation.
NotArkard says --
" You need a combination of both elements to have the best gear that you can have "
I say
" Do you not comprehend fucking english? What the fuck does this quote mean - Advance solely through RvR or to Advance solely through PvE -. Those words are in your quote. Solely does not mean a combination of both. Quit putting what you want into the mans statement.
In closing, NotArkard, your a fucking idiot. Learn to fucking read. Quit taking shit out of context and atleast read your own fucking quotes...
Wed Oct 08 2008 7:21PMWow, t0nyd, seriously take a chill pill. they got the quote dude. You seem confused that similar is not exactly the same as, but rather sorta equal too. You also focused in on a failing in one specific part of the game whereas the original quote was to the game in whole, so in fact it is you who is taking the quote out of context. I would also point out that some of the public quests are quite fun to do as a group, and you can get good reward from them as well. Personally though i find the RVR very fun, I also find other parts of the game fun as well and if you are skipping those parts, thats cool, but you also are missing out on some other kinds of fun. I'd encourage you to stop looking at the game as a competition and start looking at it as a way to have some fun. You might even find yourself having some in ways you didn't expect!
Namantha, Namanda, and Blackwidowe
Middenheim
Wed Oct 08 2008 7:45PMRigghawk --
How does similar equal nothing. So not giving shoulders, cloak, and helm, how is that similart to giving it? This difference also extends into tier 2. In no way am I taking this quote out of context.
Also, the point is I have done PQs. I dont enjoy them. I have PvEd. I dont enjoy it.
Wed Oct 08 2008 7:52PMYou sure you're on the OP's side? Because this is exactly my point. The OP wants to obtain gear solely through RvR, without having to touch a single quest(called it "laughable"). The game requires a good mix of doing PQs, quests, and RvRing in order to create the best combination of gear possible.
What I am saying is this: If you want to PvE. Fine. If you want to PvP. Fine. It does not have to be some PvE to get the best equipment, or some PvP to get the best equipment. Instead, a person should be able to choose one route, if that is what they enjoy, and stick with it. I'm okay with mixing it up. I do Scenarios, PQ's, standard quests, world PvP... I'm into the whole thing. If t0nyd wants to skip all PvE, that should be a valid option with all of the same benefits of PvE. Including, the same rate of experience, money, and equipment. THAT is a true PvP game. Requiring a person to step out of PvP to fully compete makes it a PvE game with elements of PvP.
And yes, there is no SIMILARITY in what they think is SIMILAR. Nothing != Something. Try it some time. Go into a mall with a shirt, shoes, underwear, and no pants on. See if that is 'similar' to being fully dressed. I'm sure the security guard will listen to your side.
- LC
Wed Oct 08 2008 9:10PMMMORPG.com writes:
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