Meandering through MMORPG's...

Author: t0nyd

What this author left out was the reason why many of us say Stealth is much better left to FPS. In FPS, everyone can defend themselves. We can aim and all equally, defend ourselves against a cloaked assassin. In MMORPG, normally you must rely on a Class to decloak them. This sucks in open pvp or what have you when the Decloaker/hunter is no where to be found. And by the time the 'decloaker' arrives the assassin is long gone

In FPS, we can 'aim' where we think the rogue is and take him out. Every Class in BF2142 has equal opportunity to fight off a recon.

Next, in FPS, stealthed units are merely transparent, not 100% invisible

Next, in MMORPG, rogues are notorius for sucking balls in PVE. Their entire Class is usually built around the concept of Stealth. In D&D, rogues served the purpose to help detect traps, unlock treasure chests, etc. Treasure Chests in D&D contained a wealth of items. You really wanted a Rogue in your party (well, if you could trust him that is).

So to get Stealth working in MMORPG (do all or some of this):

1) Will probably need to be a Classless MMO or an MMO where ay player can choose it as an 'option'. City of heroes had this and it worked fine until they introduced the 'Stalker' type which relied on stealth and of course, was seriously imbalanced. They are overpowered when a 'decloaker' is absent and lackluster when a 'decloaker' is present.

2) Will need 'aim' so we can defend ourself against an assassin. That way if we suspect they are there we can shoot him

3) might can add a Stealth meter like we see in Tenchu. The rogue gets an alert that lets him know how risky it is before he gets detected. Elder Scrolls oblivion, tenchu, and splinter cell all employ 'stealth meters'.Get too close and you're detected.

Sorry forgot to add other steps:

4) Rogues are transparent and can be seen if you look closely. you cant TAB to them but if you select them with your mouse directly you can target them. This might not work due to graphic cards and low detail settings so caution is required

5) Do like in EVE Online which is only mmo I've seen get them right. Stealthed units cant attack anyone and after decloak you cant attack someone for a limited time period

Firstly, MMORPGFPS: Planetside.

Second, MMORPGFPS: Darkfall.

Both are classless. Both have FPS and third person. Both have grinding and one even has everything you'll find in World of Warcraft, plus more; building galleons, naval fleets, towns, and citadels.

People who make these statements that FPS and MMO do not mix obviously are not very versed in MMO games, likely came to the scene playing World of Warcraft, and probably think World of Warcraft is the only MMORPG in existence.

It's best to acknowledge to yourself these people have absolutely no clue about anything they're attempting to comment on. Ignore them as fools.

sadly all of your statements are true.

Stelt is not for MMORPG game and Vajuras explained it so I wont bother to repeat that.

PVP is good but to gain equipment in PVP areas would mean what? To kill some noob and take his? Now you asking why would I want that, but then again there will always be some who is stronger and will loot everyone, so that means that only they can enjoy game, everyone else is bye bye. Why would enyone play game in which they can loose their hardly gotten eqipment almoust every sec? I am casual player and I do not believe that I will ever try game in which my character is always at risk to being killed by some asshole which had bad day and gone on killing spree!

ANd for grind, well it is essensial part of any RPG not just MMORPG! Even in Dungeons and dragons you have grind, quests can be either go kill x creatures or be postman or talk with bunch of people! Now between those 3 I will always choose grind becouse it is most amusing. I just can not spend for example 3 hours running from place to place delivering some stupit thing or play 3 hours just talking with npc. When you think of it grind has always been in games it is just MMORPG games last much longer then single player games so grinding comes in focus almoust momentarily. But frankly can you name me one game in which you did not grind? Even in old school single player games like baldur's gate you have always quests like go to the mine and solve mistery but when you do get to the mine you just kill bunch of things and pull the lever. So grinding will and has always been in out lives.

I agree with you on the pvp part, and thats why I'll love Aion :3

"In MMORPG, normally you must rely on a Class to decloak them"

so basically if every one can decloak him its alright?

sweet, couse in wow every class already has the posibility  to

decloak (alright paladins need to go down the holy tree a little but they are wearing plate)

"In MMORPG, normally you must rely on a Class to decloak them"

so basically if every one can decloak him its alright?

sweet, couse in wow every class already has the posibility  to

decloak (alright paladins need to go down the holy tree a little but they are wearing plate)

_vajuras

You do realize everything you said about stealth in an FPS can be done in an MMORPG. There is no reason that every class can not have a method to de-stealth someone. There is no reason that stealth has to be exactly how WoW has it...

-Dax.9

  Your the type of person that I am talking about. You do not like stealth so you spout inane things like " stealth is fps only ". There are limitless ways to create something. There are limitless ways to balance something. Thief had a nice way of doing stealth. Predators in AvP had a nice mechanic for stealth. These methods could exist in an MMORPG...

 As for equipment gained in PvP. You could get quests for PvP objectives and gain equipment and or killing a player could give tokens which turned in gives items. I am not sure why you solely focus on the idea of killing someone and taking theirs...

As for the grind, when I used to play pen and paper D&D there was no grind. Playing the game was fun. You might choose the grind because you like to kill mobs endlessly. Me, id rather kill players endlessly. Its players like you that prefer to tell others that your way of play is the only way of play. The idea of a grind is doing something that you dont enjoy doing for countless hours to get to the part you enjoy. If I could level, quest, and gain equipment from PvP, there would be no grind for me...

t0nyd: "Im not getting why that when you suggest (X mechanic) that (Y person) doesnt like, they spout you want to play (Z genre) and mmorpgs are not for you."

Because they think of MMORPGs as being a certain way.  Introducing X into their notion of an MMORPG would unacceptably damage that experience.  Ergo, you want a different kind of game.

The big problem is the acronym: MMORPG.  It attempts to declare that there are things that are MMORPGs and things that are not.  It's inane.  No two people can agree what an MMORPG is, so how can we declare things to not be MMORPGs.

On the MUD-Dev mailing list, which was used for a long time by the game developers to discuss things, one of the favorite exchanges was over the definition of "game".  Another pointless pursuit.

When you want to discuss an idea involving online entertainment, start from the beginning and describe your whole idea.  Don't call it an MMORPG.  Just use generic words.  Like "online entertainment".  If you categorize your idea, other people may take exception not to the idea, but to the categorization.  I wouldn't be surprised if a significant chunk of discussions on MMORPG.COM aren't rooted in the categorization claimed by an author.

And you know what will happen when you do this?

People will tell you that you're on the wrong site because you don't once use the acronym MMORPG  :)

Dang.  I think that's another article in-the-making.

- t0nyd

you say you do not like to kill moobs endlessly that you want to kill players endlessly but in my oppinion you still grind. It's just player grind not npc grind. But killing is killing. and for pen and paper not grinding, well I would really like to attend that kind of session. I just do not know will I be mushroom collector or advokatist.

Killing is killing wheter be wolves, players or trees.

Players usually dont spawn in the exact same place as the exact same class with the exact same equipment using the exact same tactics. Mobs do. That's why mobs are a grind and players are not.  You [i]can[/i] have PvE that's not a grind also. It's just 99% of games have copped out with canned instances and fields of mobs standing around waiting to be aggroed. Beause it's easy and some people insist that's the way it has to be.

DaX.9 wrote:

"you say you do not like to kill moobs endlessly that you want to kill players endlessly but in my oppinion you still grind. It's just player grind not npc grind. But killing is killing. and for pen and paper not grinding, well I would really like to attend that kind of session. I just do not know will I be mushroom collector or advokatist. Killing is killing wheter be wolves, players or trees."

Actually, you've got the wrong definition of grind.  A grind is repetitiveness that a player does not enjoy.  If t0nyd enjoys pvp, then endlessly killing players will not be a grind to him (like endlessly going into the arenas in GWs).  The same applies to those who enjoy endlessly killing mobs.  It is not a grind. 

-LC