This week's Community Spotlight focuses on the thread "Should World Boss mobs be killable by 10/25?" by pbowman. In the thread, pbowman comments on the silliness of having 10 or 25 people down some of MMOs most dangerous characters:
I was just wondering what people think about World Mobs, such as Lich King or Deathwing being killed by 10 or 25 people. These mobs broke the world, their the biggest and baddest thing around. Thrall and Varian and all the rest couldn't take em, yet 10/25 people can take em down.
I remember in DAOC, in some dragon runs or epic armor runs we had almost 100 people. We didn't ask to see their gear level or achievements, we banded together and fought the epic mobs. Sometimes we wiped, but it was fun. Same with relic raids or defending our relic, a call went out and people of all levels came to defend or go on raid. It was fun, at least to me it was.
Personally, I think that world mobs should take the cooperation of the server. Put out a call to the server, let anyone and everyone come to fight the creature that is trying to take over the world.
This goes for any MMO, not just WoW, I just used them as an example.
This is just my opinion.
What's the MMORPG.com community have to say about this? Read on to find out!
Torik feels the problem is actually the fact these characters are now part of the "raid grind":
The problem with these fights is not the requirement on the number of players but the fact that the fights are part of a raid grind. They are meant to be repeated every week by a dedicated group of raiders and that sucks most of the 'epicness' out of them.
If these fights were more casual affairs that only awarded achievements and/or titles they could require 100+ players. Once a month someone on a server would try to organize a raid for those and people would come to the fight because it would be a rare social event. They would be willing to put a lot of time and effort into it because it would be something special to remember.
If you make these fights regular repeatable events then the scale does not matter and it becomes the equivalent of a daily quest. It's fun to do the first few tiems and then you just want to get it out of the way. It's like having a Christmas parade every week. After the first few, people will lose interest and mostly care about the traffic jams it causes.
Maplestone asserts the 10/25 dynamic is appropriate due to potential performance issues:
The problem with massive world bosses is that once you have a hundred people on screen at once, you start loosing players with lower-end machines or cause the server hamsters to have heart attacks.
I've always enjoyed wandering across random out-of-level encounters and sizing up if I want to tackle them or answer a zone-wide alarm or world event. However, I generally don't enjoy world bosses because it's sheer chaos and brings me into contact with all the powergamers, exploiters and hard-core rare-seekers who I generally try to avoid.
But in principle, I've always felt that a game should always have bosses that have never been defeated that sit there as mountains to climb.
Axehilt isn't even convinced 10 players are necessary:
No particular reason bosses need to even require 10 players.
The epicness of a fight doesn't come from massing a bunch of players, it comes from the presentation of the fight itself.
You need 4-6 players to get the feeling of team gameplay. Additional players beyond that doesn't contribute much to the sensation of being part of a team, but definitely does increase the amount of hassle and tedium, and dilutes my personal contribution to the point of being pretty meaningless.
While I enjoy large-scale balanced-team PVP (Planetside), I really wouldn't mind if I never raided again in PVE-focused games (and I only play MMORPGs for PVE.)
I tend to agree with Axehilt's point-of-view. I'm really excited for those big 100+ player fights with super giant dragons in Guild Wars 2, for example, but I don't feel this is necessary to accomplish a sense of epicness. If these games are made to make us feel like the "hero" I don't think 10-25 heroes are entirely necessary to make a fight feel epic.
I also agree with the notion that sometimes when you've got more than a couple of players going at something you lose your sense of individual contribution to the fight. Without a DPS meter of some sort it can be pretty hard to tell how much of an impact you're having. With less players involved, every single player is likely to be responsible for a significant percentage of your group's chance of success in the encounter.
What are your thoughts? Share 'em in the comments below!