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MMORPG.com Staff Blog

The staff of MMORPG.com gets together to bring you some behind the scenes insights on stories, the industry and the site itself.

Author: staffblog

Contributors: BillMurphy,MikeB,garrett,SBFord,Grakulen,

Guild Wars 2 and DAOC

Posted by garrett Monday September 13 2010 at 2:36PM
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If you read our interview with the content design team from Guild Wars 2 last week you know what I am talking about already. However, I still cannot stress how much one sentence has been banging in my head like that god damn monkey with the cymbals.
 
“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server.” – Colin Johansen, Lead Content Designer
 
I know I have said it many times, that DAOC had the single best game idea in MMOs: three realms battling each other for power and control. If a realm was in power, the other two would bring them down, eventually. The benefits of this power were, holding Darkness Falls, the best place to level in the game, access to bonuses in PvP, and overall bragging rights.
 
One of the main things that kept me playing DAOC all the way up until WoW was the feeling of realm pride. Now it looks like Guild Wars 2 is attempting to bring that back on a server wide level. Putting 3 servers against each other is awesome. Having them fight in open world PvP is awesome. Also, linking PvE server raids and achievements so that the entire server benefits and eventually can link those benefits to PvP is really awesome. I don’t know where to begin on this….
 
If Arena Net can make this system work and it somehow mirrors the feeling players got from the early days of DAOC…it will be a joining of the old and new in MMOs which could create a truly intesne environment for players.
 
If you don’t like PvP, no prob, you are still helping your server in PvE encounters. If you want to go and fight it out with the others…go and battle other shards. It really is great.
 
 I cannot get this idea out of my head. I cannot wait to see Colin at NY Comicon next month to ask him more about it (MMORPG.com is hosting a Guild Wars 2 panel…hint hint).
 
Again I do apologize for how many blogs I have done on this topic, I just feel like Arena Net are the first to finally bring something back to MMOs I truly enjoyed.
Herodes writes:

...and this in a B2P game. It still reads a bit like a joke. I mean, there were threads "P2P vs F2P, where is the future?" nonstop, and then this. I hope Anet can deliver.

Mon Sep 13 2010 5:15PM Report
ragnaur23 writes:

You and a ton of other people :) I was really gettign hyped about GW2, then they decided to unleash the PvP topic, and I was like OMFG!!!... Yeah IF they can pull thsi off, IF they can pull off mid level raid content, and end game content as well as a unique immersive and engaging story arc for both PvE and PvP...GW2 will be the clea rleader in MMO evolution in ALL areas.

I want that feeling of "Realm Pride", that feeling of pwning people's faces only to be ganked from behind by the other realm...or vice versa lol...

I really, really, hope they walk the walk....all this glory and no subscription, not much in the way of a cash shop...I can't wait!!!

Ragnaur23

Mon Sep 13 2010 5:21PM Report
rmason writes:

my pants just got a little wet and gooey.

Mon Sep 13 2010 6:14PM Report
Morcotulcon writes:

And consider that each Guild will have a Keep at the W vs W vs W. I really want to know more about all this stuff.

I have friends that don't like PVP, and the info that even in PVE they can contribute to their "world" is driving them crazy. And me, as much a PVE as s PVP player, this game is trully giving the hope I waited for years. I don't touch an mmorpg for months, probably an year (and Dragon Nest does not count because it isn't an MMO, because it's just the same instanced world as GW1), just because I don't have the pacience to do the same gameplay as other mmorpgs over and over again.

Mon Sep 13 2010 7:32PM Report
Talin writes:

I officially <3 Arena Net and GW2.

Mon Sep 13 2010 8:07PM Report
Senadina writes:

You keep saying "open world PvP". Is this like Aion? Where you can't do PvE without getting ganked? If so that would be tremendously disappointing and my friends WILL NOT play. I am really looking forward to this game but that would dampen my enthusiasm considerably.

Since you are comparing it to DaoC, that was not what I consider open world PvP. You had PvP zones. If this is what you mean, no problem. I may even check that out. But I don't want another PvP situation like Aion.

Mon Sep 13 2010 8:57PM Report
dbstylin34 writes:

@senadina, apparently there is supposed to be no open world pvp that occurs outside of the mists, Completely gankfree, enter mists at your own discretion though.

Mon Sep 13 2010 9:22PM Report
MLecl0001 writes:

Senadina all the PvP is to happen in a different zone set up specifically for it.  As I understand it, its going to be week long fights against 2 other random servers.  This is something I dont like, part of the RvR in DAoC was not only the realm pride but knowing your enemies.  There was always mutual respect/angst toward enemy players.  If you are constantly switching which servers you are going up against this gets lost.

 

Also there is no sense of permanence to PvP, especially since they are trying so hard to give you that with the PvE experience.  After a week fight in a big zone with 2 other servers a winner is declared and it resets against different servers.  Or at least that is how I understand the system to work.

 

Also I want city fighting, not city sieges but city fighting like Praag in WAR.  Probably the best thing to come outta that game besides PQ idea.

Mon Sep 13 2010 11:48PM Report
MLecl0001 writes:

Also Senadina what he means by open world is that it is not "instanced."  In one sense it is in that it is separate from the rest of the world, however it is not instanced in a sense where its 10v10v10.  Its all one big zone for all 3 servers to fight it out in, not a series of mirrored instanced zones, or bgs.

Mon Sep 13 2010 11:49PM Report
TheCoon writes:

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought i read somewhere that one could freely change servers??

Tue Sep 14 2010 1:28AM Report
Zeroxin writes:

@TheCoon

Not entirely freely during W v W. If your World is set-up to fight or is fighting in W v W and you move to a rival server, they said that restrictions will be placed on you and I expect those restrictions to be that you won't be able to join W v W on that server for that week or something of the sort.

Tue Sep 14 2010 3:34AM Report
Scot writes:

I keep hearing about great ideas in GW2 but can they pull them of? If they can we may be seeing a new type of MMO here.

Garrett sums it up, realm pride. Thats what we once had, that's what is now missing. I still have Guild pride, AoC gives me that. But nothing replaces the feeling that you and everyone else in your realm is working to a common goal. We really were brothers and sisters in arms.

Tue Sep 14 2010 5:48AM Report
Hersaint writes:

Great news. Will keep an eye out for more GW2 articles.  I just DLed DAoC to check it out and get a taste of the realm pride agian.

Tue Sep 14 2010 7:19AM Report
MumboJumbo writes:

GW2 is certainly ticking all the big boxes and 1UP'ing the competition on major game features: Pricing, Dynamic Events in PvE, 3-Faction PvP and Competitive PvP and best of all Combat.

About World PvP aka WvWvW / WvW:

I think the above quote by Colin Johanson is saying that how your server does in WvW PvP is a source of world/server pride where experienced players will help lower players in PvE to level up and become better players so they can contribute and team up better in WvWvW PvP. So that's what he is referring to about contributing in PvE to a closer community cooperative experience as a result. This is very big deal for ArenaNet for their game philosophy to always promote player interactions as elective and positive.

WvW takes place in the "Mists" - 4 maps to choose with 3-servers battling over RTS-style map features small, medium and large so there is BO for every size of group from solo to army. This is elective HUGE instance, so no open-world pvp unless you choose to go to this (huge) instance.

Details about server transfers are not known, but there is the option and a timer-restriction is in place to manage and regulate players movements.

The matching of 3 servers and change every week, is good imo, it allows even match-ups and servers to find the right level of challenge I guess. Transfers could be a potential problem, that reduce "REALM PRIDE" but details are not known??

Tue Sep 14 2010 7:21AM Report
Hathi writes:

I want to learn MORE! Will there be PvP point system and gear vendors? Will there be competitive Dynamic Events in this area? Will there be a server wide buff for the capture of battlefield objectives? Will there be sieges? Can one exclusively advance/ level up in the mists from level 1 - 80? Will there be premade templates if I just want to test a build in pvp?

Potential is limitless, but I must temper myself with reality. Can they pull this off? Will they learn from the mistakes of WAR?

Tue Sep 14 2010 8:02AM Report
Razzmatazzz writes:

@Hathi

The answeres to your questions really depned on which kind of Pvp you are talking about.

As some allready know GW2 Pvp is split in to two types.

There is the Structured Pvp which is very simiar to the GW1 Pvp modes. In Structured everyone will have the same level (80) and your gear will be evened out. You will play in groups of 5 in various types of tournaments where you will be matched up with other groups across all servers. In this Pvp mode you can unlock special equip skins and probably have a couple of pvp titels linked to special emotes like we allready had in GW1. Structured will probably speak to those very competitive players who prefer evened out fights on a tournamet/esports level.

World Pvp will give you the chance to participate in large scale battles with not level or gear restrictions. Since the maps in WvW will have some strategical rts like objectives the strengh of a single player wont have that much of an impact therefore advantages through your level or imba Pve gear wont matter that much. From what I have heard there will be Fortresses on those WvW maps and some kind of siege like gameplay. So far they havent talked about gear that you can only get exclusively through that kind of Pvp but since they have allready talked about such things in connection to the Structured Pvp if think its not to far fetched that WvW will also have a simialar reward system. Server wide buffs or bonuses through victories in WvW are allready confirmed by the devs. Dont know if you can advance your level only through playing WvW but i know that you can acces it allready pretty early on in the game. 

About the premade templates and build testing, GW2 will have the same open respec system as GW1 has. That means that you can respec and experiment with skill builds as much as you want when you are outside of combat.

Hope that cleared some things up :)

Tue Sep 14 2010 8:56AM Report
Alanthus writes:

If they pull it off I'll spend my next 6-8 years playing it (and the expansions of course, f2p is a misnomer, I'll happily pay for me, wife and kids if they pull this off though...)

There are a lot of pitfalls though, can the engine cope with massive open world pvp, do the area mechanics work, will the game be polished enough at release, are the classes fun to play, do the combat mechanics work - do they work in a high latency setting, will the servers be stable, will the game survive the initial population rush and develop a working community, will crafting/pve inclusion be even better than DAOC, will the gear curve kill WvWvW for any but hard core players etc. ???

Trying to remain a sceptic but it sure looks good...

Tue Sep 14 2010 9:06AM Report
KillHurt writes:

ANet, don't let us down! We are counting on you!

Tue Sep 14 2010 12:19PM Report
neonwire writes:

Oh wow! This game really is offering me everything I have ever wanted to see in an mmo. I have waited years for a games company to finally realise the potential in mmos and its currently looking as though ArenaNet are the ones who have the insight and skill to do it.

I dont think any other companies are actually capable of making real mmos to be honest, except for Trion perhaps. They all just seem to be stuck in the past, regurgitating online single player games in co-op mode.

I just hope ArenaNet can live up to what they are proposing (fingers crossed). Otherwise mmos may have to continue to be non-existent for me.

Tue Sep 14 2010 1:27PM Report
dwht11 writes:

what is the grp cap going to be in gw2 AND do you think there will be a good amount of gvg in open field or GvZerg? Also is there still going to be instant arena as well?

Tue Sep 14 2010 1:56PM Report
DrFrag writes:
You have sparked my interest ANet.
Tue Sep 14 2010 3:22PM Report
Razzmatazzz writes:

@dwht11

There will be an instanced PvP mode called Structured PvP. Its very simialar to GW1 PvP.

Have a look at my post above! There I summarized what we know until now about the two PvP modes in GW2 (WvW & Structured PvP/GvG).

Tue Sep 14 2010 3:51PM Report
Leechx writes:

This game will be the next biggest MMO in MMO history. It is going to evolutionalize the MMO genre to its maximum potential.  Let's hope other companies stop making the same traditional MMOs we have been seeing.  Shit like this causes many new sparks in the MMO genre.  The possibilities are endless.

Tue Sep 14 2010 6:50PM Report
dwht11 writes:

well has there bee anything leaked about any AE crowd control?

Tue Sep 14 2010 7:23PM Report
Razzmatazzz writes:

So far there havent been any specific statements about that. But they talked in an interview not long ago about how for example the fear effect would behave diferently in pvp than in pve (in pve fear will last about 4 sec and in pvp only 2 sec). The skillpool will be devided in pve and pvp versions like they did in gw1. This will help balancing alot and ensures that very strong CC spells like fear wont be that imbalanced in pvp.

Wed Sep 15 2010 2:52AM Report
lucid4life writes:

"Again I do apologize for how many blogs I have done on this topic, I just feel like Arena Net are the first to finally bring something back to MMOs I truly enjoyed.:"

No apologies needed,your post is truly welcome,also it's great to learn more about this aspect of the game.I personally think they will be much more willing to give out info as soon as they start talking about PVP in specific,on their blog and maybe even videos.

The idea sounds incredibly interesting.Hopefully there will be an triangle conflict aspect in a similar sense of "thief,hunter,trader" of Silkroad Online,that triangular system was just so much fun and made you care about your allies so much more.

Wed Sep 15 2010 3:02AM Report
Lord.Bachus writes:

Somehow garret has been caught by the overhyping..

 

Oh wayt he actually has hand on experience...

 

Hmm, then maybe the ame is still underhyped.

Wed Sep 15 2010 8:08AM Report
Thane writes:

is there gonna be a map for pvp, persistent?

or again, like everything else in a small player instanced map?

 

coz actually THAT was one of the main features in pvp, it's quite different from preset enemies fighting each other in battlegrounds again and again ^^

Fri Sep 17 2010 10:31AM Report
Vargur writes:

I doubt server pride will be abe to compare with realm pride. It is just not the same to say GO <server name>! compared to GO MIDGARD or GO ALBION!

Still, if they are able to pull it off, all the better. Best of luck.

Tue Feb 22 2011 6:32PM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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