“It seems many people are all about end game raiding these days.
So would you play a MMO that was all about raiding, and gear progression with no character progression?
You could still customize your character with talent trees or something.
If there was a game like this, I think there would be a ton more raid content than current games, since developers wouldn't have to make content for leveling.
Personally, I don't know if I'd play a game like this, because I like advancing my character through levels and abilities more than just getting new shiny pieces of gear. And I don't like raiding that much.”
Jenuviel offers an interesting perspective, suggesting perhaps the opposite would be ideal, a game with tons of levels and remorts (clearly a MUDder, I haven’t heard this term in forever!) entirely absent of raiding:
“I'm actually on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I'd happily play a game with 500 levels and unlimited remorts (the ability to start over at level 1 with perks gained from the previous incarnations) and no raiding or pvp whatsoever. For me, that forward momentum is my primary source of enjoyment. I'm all about character growth, but not particularly about "stuff accumulation." If it had grouping all the way similar to the grouping in CoH, I'd group all the way. If it didn't, I'd solo all the way. Either way, I'd be happy.
I sit at a desk typing in patient information all day, every day, and I typically feel like very little (if any) progress has been made. When I get home, it's a relief to sit down, spend a couple of hours, and walk away with that sense of "getting somewhere" that levels give me. Sure, they're meaningless in the big picutre, but that part of me that needs to be putting one foot in front of the other gets temporarily sated by it.
Once I reach a level cap, I generally reroll (if there are any other classes or skill combinations I'm interested in) or leave. With a mechanism in place to allow virtually unlimited leveling, I'd stay subscribed for virtually an unlimited amount of time. A game like that would probably have to throw away quest-based advancement entirely, though, and revert to pure grinding. I think those days are behind us forever, so I'm basically a virtual tourist now. Play game, see sights, move on. Getting shinier, spikier armor just doesn't motivate me in the same way, nor does lateral advancement. That's sad for me, but good for the industry; I buy a lot of MMO boxes.”
Kyleran wouldn’t play such a game, he instead argues that character progression is part and parcel of defining the MMO experience:
“I'd have to say no, I wouldn't play a game w/o some form of character progression, though I'm not a fan of "leveling" per sec, I like EVE's system much better. (where the focus isn't on "working for your progression".
I've been playing Fallout 3 lately and over the weekend I hit level 20 (the max w/o expansions) and suddently found myself wondering what my goals in the game were. I went ahead and finished the mainline quest and ended the game even though I haven't seen almost 1/3 or the game at least.
I'll go back and continue to play of course, esp since I can still find items that will improve my character, but its not quite as much fun knowing I'll not get to allocate new skill points or gain new perks. (except of course, I did buy the expansion, time to install it I think)
But back to MMORPG's, character progression is a defining element of MMORPG's, otherwise you are creating basically an "adventure" game like Myst and I never cared for playing those style of games.”
Dreamscaper suggests that she would be interested in a game without character progression, as long as the gameplay itself was as fun from moment to moment as City of
“If the game was built like City of
, then yes. Heroes
It's really the only MMO that I've found to be fun for the sake of it, not because of progression. It's because of the combat system - combat in the game is simply fun in a way that I normally only find in non-MMOs. I love tossing baddies around with my storm/energy defender, or completely controlling the battlefield with my ill/kin controller. You can take away the XP, enhancements, and it would still be fun to jump into a group with some of your friends, turn up the difficulty, and start blasting away.”
I on the other hand would probably not play such a game. I love the progression in MMOs and it’s partly what drives me to play them. If the only progression for me was the raid to gear, gear to raid cycle, I don’t think I would be interested, and it is one reason I often don’t really get into the raiding scene.
I enjoy being able to chart a progression of my characters abilities from a total newb to max level, and being able to look back at how he has changed both in look and ability since I started him out.
Axehilt brought up an interesting point in the thread as well, noting how progression was important and how he probably would not have played Modern Warfare 2 as long as he had were it not for the game’s progression system (which borrows heavily from MMOs). Modern Warfare 2 also has a Prestige mode which lets you reroll your character once you’re max level in order to re-level it again to earn more coveted Prestige ranks. This sort of ties into Jenuviels point earlier with regards to having many levels and “remorting” or gaining bonuses from your previous progression and starting anew. I think such a system might be an interesting alternative to your typical endgame.
Would you play an MMO that was all about the endgame and consisted of essentially nothing but raiding? Why or why not? Let us know in the comments below!