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MMORPG.com Staff Blog

The staff of MMORPG.com gets together to bring you some behind the scenes insights on stories, the industry and the site itself.

Author: staffblog

Contributors: BillMurphy,MikeB,garrett,SBFord,Grakulen,

Guild Wars 2, Hype, and the Forum Circle of Life!

Posted by MikeB Friday April 13 2012 at 11:42AM
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I've always found the pushback against 'hype' interesting. You don't really see it as much in other entertainment mediums. If I go to a movie forum I don't think I'd find people wigging out over other people getting excited for some upcoming film (especially if it's within that film's subforum!). Even if that film is overhyped.

What may be different here is that these games take so long to develop and a lot of users here have been disappointed and waiting for something fulfilling to come out for probably going on years now. This means the notion that something they feel is overhyped and deficient becoming successful despite this makes their prospects of a new game coming out that is more in line with their preferences that much worse. After all, if a ''crappy' game does really well, we can expect to find many of its features and designs in future games.

I get that sort of apprehension, but honestly, people are excited again. So what? I think 2012 is going to be a great year for MMOs all around. Even if GW2 ends up overrated or overhyped I'm sure it will still be a solid game and the fact its generating excitement in this genre is a good thing. After the one-two punch of Conan and WAR in '08 it's been a pretty rough last couple of years for the genre. Now we've got all sorts of cool stuff on the horizon!

I can't speak for everyone, but part of my theory is that a lot of users who may not care about GW2 (or whatever game is currently trending) are seeing topics on it constantly on the active feed on the front page and may be annoyed so they come in to participate in the discussion and it sort of spirals out from there. We generally have 'trends' here at the site where regulars from all the other subforums are mostly talking about the same game for a couple of months at a time. A few months ago our stats leaned heavily on SWTOR, now GW2 dwarfs SWTOR discussion.  This will likely be the case up to and past the first couple of months of launch, and then we'll all be talking about something else, much to some other group of users' annoyance!

The Forum Circle of Life!

gaeanprayer writes:

Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head, and it's not even just for GW2. Up until recently, it was all about SWTOR/TERA. Of course, people are greatly disillusioned by both games now, and with GW2 on the horizon the excitement flips over to the next new thing. But there were quite a few of us that cared about that game long before a lot of the other crowd "came over to the dark side" (punny!). I see a lot of people in the threads once trolling GW2 in favor of some of the games already released or close to releasing, now with a grip on Anet's gnads so tight they could squeeze blood from a stone. It's hilarious. It's even funnier when you realize these are game-hoppers, and as soon as GW2 releases they'll be on to the next new thing, likely either TSW and/or ArchAge. And along the way, there will be just as many martyr's making threads about why people shouldn't be excited, hyped, or rabid, as if the joy (warranted or not) were nails on chalkboard to them.

 

There are a lot of games that have released, and are releasing, that I never understood the hype for. I anticipated the disappointment, sat back and waited with the splash of fan tears on the floor, sometimes even with a twisted little trollgrin on my face because yes...we're all bitter, mean little pricks on the inside (admit it!). But I don't remember ever being angry at the hype, or trying to scream it down. SWTOR is a great example, I never understood the draw of that game, but I don't remember seething with anger because someone else was looking forward to it. It's so strange.

I recently saw someone in a thread trolling GW2 something fierce, and took a look at his post history; 10+ pages of posts (not 10 posts, 10+ PAGES of posts) of nothing but cash shop bitching, trolling and anti-hype. At some point it stops looking bitter and starts to border on a pathological disorder. If it's not a game you like, feel free to say so, sometimes people have very useful and valid criticism, but then move on. What other people are excited and willing to spend their money on is really not a platform for your soapbox.

Fri Apr 13 2012 12:05PM Report
MikeB writes:

Please get in touch with me privately about this user so we can look into whether any action needs to be taken here.

Fri Apr 13 2012 12:09PM Report
Delvie writes:

Welcome to MMORPG forums - where the expectations are exponential, the disappointments disastrous, and the stereotyping stupifying:)

Fri Apr 13 2012 12:19PM Report
Bunks writes:

The problem is we have subsets of posters. There are those who have a vested interest in a product IP and have a firm idea of what they want to see in that product. For example, Star trek, Star Wars, WoW all have people with personal attachment to the story/IP/Lore and become emotionally attached to the subject matter. Call them the haters/fanbois if you want.

I admit, I went from being a high level fan of SWTOR back in 2010 and 2011, till I started seeing what the game was becoming. My feelings went from high anticipation to utter letdown in six months. After waiting years for it to come out(your point about time investment) I never even played the final game. I felt robbed, since at my age, it's highly unlikely we will get another shot  given to the Star Wars IP in game format. At least not at this level.

But as I started pointing out what I saw as potentially fatal game flaws, I was attacked personally, for something I was personally attached to. I didn't let that get to me, but as time went on and the obvious failures of the game became...well, obvious, at that point those same attacks were no longer tolerable. Hence my feeling now is total mockery of the Star War label, but Im not going to start a thread to do so. But some of the threads (like when something is perfect for example) yet we all know that's BS. Those are way too many around here.

But that's the problem with only one type of (poster)hater/Fanboi. Then we have those who fear that if one game is too succesful, somehow they will be left out in the cold somehow, or may even work for a gold seller or even a competitor(so let's just call them agenda driven). These are the vast majority of the absurd thread starters, which then leaves the hater/fanbois (both well intended) at each others throats for pages on end. These are people who never intend to play a game. They are obvious when they critique parts of a game with no knowledge of it. Yet no one around here takes a moment to just delete them and ban the accounts that start them. No you, ban those who mock the thread, no matter how ridiculous it was in the first place.
This leaves places like this wide open. When you allow a person ,who has no background or idea  about a game, to start a thread that is nothing but complete fantasy or delusion, then the fans/haters go at it for days. Maybe you need to cap thread starters somehow. The fact that a person can open an account on monday morning and make 10 threads a minute later isn't really a great idea. Maybe some kind of uprate system perhaps?
But overall, this place is just to overloaded with agenda driven posters, and they are the worst of the worst and go completely unresponded to. So yes, you can say "we" are a bit bizzare as a group, but as the saying goes, the fault lies not in the stars but within ourselves.

Fri Apr 13 2012 1:06PM Report
MumboJumbo writes:

Delvie: Welcome to MMORPG forums - where the expectations are exponential, the disappointments disastrous, and the stereotyping stupifying:)

Sig-nificant quote. ;)

Devs: "Let them eat cake!"

Fri Apr 13 2012 1:24PM Report
caremuchless writes:

"These are people who never intend to play a game. They are obvious when they critique parts of a game with no knowledge of it. Yet no one around here takes a moment to just delete them and ban the accounts that start them. No you, ban those who mock the thread, no matter how ridiculous it was in the first place."

^I agree wholeheartedly with the above quoted comment.

Fri Apr 13 2012 1:33PM Report
Kehdar writes:

 

I usually don't post on the forum, this is the first time in 4 years, but i have to say that i found this post interesting...
 
Let me premise that i have own a GW 1 CE since the day of release and i already pre-purchase GW 2 so i have absolutely nothing against it (i doubt it will be the revolution everyone thinks but i think it will be a good and solid title). 
 
Anyway recently i'm interested in Tera so i usually read the tera forums in search of informations and what it's really annoying me is that in every post talking about Tera (but i can only guess is the same for TSW or TOR) there is always a GW fan hijacking the thread or bashing Tera/TSW/TOR in favor of GW. 
Some days ago i saw a thread titled "Playing Tera beta" or something like this and what i read inside it? The OP writing "and i wish it was GW2 beta", and of course a flame after this, i know the op didn't mean to start a flame war, but for the love of God...
Another example was a guy calling tera players kids, since the only good aspect of Tera in his opionion was the graphic and only kids are interested only in graphic. The argument was wrong on so many level that i just smiled but anyway i think you can see my point.
 
@Gaeanprayer: I can tell you there are guys (and some are always the same) trashing Tera in every post.
 
I'm happy if alot of players are excited about GW2, I'm too, but this doesn't mean they are entitled to bash every other games out there, because by doing so they are just inviting retribution and start a vicious circle.
 
P.S.: Sorry i made some mistakes but english is not my first language.
Fri Apr 13 2012 1:42PM Report
Segun777 writes:

To play Devil's advocate though sometime as a player you see hype that is not only unrealisitic its stupifying in its vision. Take Guild Wars 2 for example. The same people who were critizing TOR for having story based content, or at least too much of it are fine with the personal and overall story of Guild Wars 2. From the hotbar/action combat argument, to the cutscenes argument, to the kill/fetch quests argument; more than a few people who have issues with any one of these topics will sit back and crow about how much better Guild Wars 2 is.

But even that Fanboy noise would be fine, if six months down the road these same people weren't now tearing their hair out about how Arena Net cheated them, and death to all cash shops, etc,etc. The point must be made that the vast majority of complaints on forums like these are just nonsense and add little if anything at all to any real discussion.

Finally the question must be asked what do expect? If you're writing on a forum that isn't offical what do you want as an endgame to your forum thread? People write inflamatory statements, gamers and writers alike, and then sit back and pontificate how far things have fallen. What did you really expect to be the outcome?!

Fri Apr 13 2012 1:45PM Report
DarkPony writes:

Nice write up.

<3 that Forum Circle Of Life.

It's an everlasting playground for "the verbal minority", (i.e. the vast majority of mmorpg.com posters, i.e. spoiled rotten consumers with first world problems (myself included)).

But really though, inbetween mmorpgs, nothing beats participating in some fired up mmorpg discussions and trying the best you can do make your points stick. We are kind of like politicians in that sense. V_V

Regards, Dark Pony,

Proud member of the Anti Sandbox Defamation League and spokesperson of HAAH (Hoofed Animals Against Handholding).

Fri Apr 13 2012 2:45PM Report
Quizzical writes:

People who want to play a game that is out go play that game.  People who want to play a game that isn't out go post on forums instead--and sometimes about rivals of their preferred game.  Sometimes it really is that simple.

Fri Apr 13 2012 3:40PM Report
Zillen writes:

@DarkPony

I see what you did there... ;)

Fri Apr 13 2012 3:47PM Report
GeezerGamer writes:

@Dark Pony

Maybe your Hoofed Animal needs to hold something. I'm not even going to tell you how they defamed the Sand Box.

Fri Apr 13 2012 5:40PM Report
VowOfSilence writes:

The problem is that ArenaNet made a lot of decicions lately that are the opposite of what they promised before (cash shop, upscaling, respeccing, death penalty...). Their decisions aren't in line with their own manifesto anymore.

Now we have a lot of fighting between people who are pissed because of that, and prople who have an urge to defend their faviourite company/game no matter what. I don't really understand it either.

And of course, there's also the traditional "hater" - but the truth is that they are actually rare and their numbers haven't increased that much...

Fri Apr 13 2012 5:44PM Report
Grakulen writes:

We are going to be talking about Neverwinter! (Or at least i will)

/cough cough

Fri Apr 13 2012 6:39PM Report
necrostein writes:

what you mean this ISNT endgame?

Fri Apr 13 2012 6:44PM Report
Zylaxx writes:

@Kehdar  It isnt a one way street as you may like to believe.  Every single positive thread about GW2 has alot of troll, hate and biased filled posters in it as well.  Its not a Tera exclusive thing.  Instead of propagating myths it would be nice of fans of both games to see through to the other side and "just get along".

Fri Apr 13 2012 10:12PM Report
SBE1 writes:

No, I think MMO gamers are passionate because of the amount of time we invest into games, our characters, and our guilds.  We all want THE GAME that will finally satisfy us and be worthy of a 5-year long-term relationship.  For a lot of gamers, a sand-box PvP end-game with satisfying PvE content is what will do it.  Unfortunately, almost all games either go too far PvE (SWTOR) or too far PvP (WH).  Sandbox PvP endgame will keep players engaged for a long time.  Besides EvE Online and maybe DAOC (pre-ToA expansion) and WoW, most games have failed to deliver.

Fri Apr 13 2012 11:51PM Report
darkhalf357x writes:

Good that you are bringing this to light.  Ive noticed a type of gamer that likes to focus on either extreme and amid the back and forth, the facts and more importantly the fun gets lost.  This goes beyond passion. Its like we cant accept we like different things in different games.  Becoming excited about a legitimate title gets sold as hype which builds up the fail train immediate on launch.  No one is talking what they PLAYING.  They talk about what they want to play.

I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion, but state it as such and dont sell it as 'reality' or 'fact'

I subbed 3-months to SWTOR day 1. I love the first month it.  Then I got bored.  Simly booted up something else. I never felt the need to go into the SWTOR forums saying how the game is an 'epic fail' or predicting when its going F2P based on some website statistics. Really?  If someone else loves SWTOR let them talk about it.  If you feel the need to join the thread to offer something constructive, worth talking about.

Sat Apr 14 2012 2:31AM Report
khameleon writes:

I think GW2 will hold a lot more peoples interest than SWTOR or TERA combined.  Many games have a lot of hype and it dies down in the 1st week the game is out because most games are a huge disappointment. I think GW2 will actually keep people happy for a while. Not everyone, but many will enjoy it and not be too disappointed.

 

Sat Apr 14 2012 6:54AM Report
ihatepugs writes:

This thread became a GW2 thread instead of a forum circle of life thread.  I am one of those that has felt mislead by reviewers and probably overhyped forum posts about games.  I used to let beauty of a game lead me to believe that it would compensate for a game.  

The things that I feel the community needs is to have gameplay videos.  And even better if they're beta tester recorded videos.  Without enough tidbits of the game and things you can do, all the claims become hype because there is no evidence.  Wild claims by developers can become misleading to us.  The best way for us to reject the hype is if we have peers, or in this case other gamers like us posting gameplay videos.  

Developers showing us all the videos in the world will not help us.  Our brains deaden and we eat their words like caramel-covered popcorn.  We accept them as truth because they are in a superior position to us.  They know more about the game than us, so we think they are giving us what we want.  

The truth we have to see from this is that those videos we see the various fansites posting are the videos that we should really be using as our source material.  Feedback and forum posts should complement this information.  This is what other fans like us are finding fun in a game.  This game looks fun because we see these videos that beta testers are recording.  It's really important that developers allow more fan videos to explore each little aspect of a game that will deliver their intended message of what the game has to offer.  

That said, I do love the fact that there is that much Guild Wars 2 video out there.  Each of the claims are slowly being backed up with more and more videos.  One video isn't enough?  There may be up to 20 different videos driving home that message.  

Sat Apr 14 2012 1:33PM Report
zonzai writes:

I wasn't in the TERA beta.  I gave my beta key away since it didn't interest me.  But the person I gave it to was a bit disappointed.  I was in the TOR beta and I thought it was a pretty good game that  just came out about four years too late to meet expectations.  I remember the AOC and WAR betas, as well as others.  Every single time I knew what was coming: disappointment over unfulfilled promises.

Guild Wars 2 is the first beta I have played where I have been stricken with an immense sense of awe and pleasure at the fulfilled promises.  It's not perfect but it is really damned good.  My MMO enthusiasm has been reignited. This is the game I've been waiting for for the last 10 years.

I don't post a lot though.  So anybody who says I'm over-hyping the game is wrong.  It just is what it is.  And it's good. 

Sat Apr 14 2012 1:33PM Report
darkhalf357x writes:

@ihatepugs

I agree with you.  The issue isnt the hype (which I feel can be healthy) but the claims.  People need to stop CLAIMING what a game will be before it comes out.  If you see something you like and it excites you. I feel that is normal natural hype.  But its on the condition of playing the game and seeing if it met expectations,  which will be different to everybody.

I dont think this thread is specifically about GW2, its just that GW2 is imminent to launch and there is hype (both good and bad about it) making it a likely target to discuss.

To make my point, I agree with zonzai above, and I havent even played the game. I dont need to, in order to understand what aspects I like.  And its in GW2.   Because I feel that way its HYPE? and its wrong?  Stop. Others may disagree but its more because you dont like what GW2 is delivering versus it being a bad game which is hard to prove since its so subjective).

We have some people who just can seem to leave well enough alone when they disagree, or lack the tact to describe their differences with dignity for others.

Sat Apr 14 2012 3:33PM Report
BartDaCat writes:

"I can't speak for everyone, but part of my theory is that a lot of users who may not care about GW2 (or whatever game is currently trending) are seeing topics on it constantly on the active feed on the front page and may be annoyed so they come in to participate in the discussion and it sort of spirals out from there."

I think this has a LOT to do with it.

Sun Apr 15 2012 3:03AM Report
Boatsmate writes:

Well said.  Gamers critique their games like they play them, no prisoners taken.

Sun Apr 15 2012 6:58AM Report
mudbeed writes: I loved your blog post. Was great. My take on it is haters are going to hate. Yeah its cliche but it so true. I also think it is a mix of worry. Imagine a WAR player worrying about losing even more population and guildies to WvW. Im just giving many reasons people may detest GW2. Some people love the holy trinity for example, others scoff the idea of action based combat. When I read a lot of the complaints about GW2 I just shake my head because they are so insignificant compared to the good stuff thats coming our way. I would respect them more if they just said GW2 just isnt their cup of tea but instead they whine about all these petty thing. Well there was my 2 cents. Sun Apr 15 2012 8:32PM Report
Powermike writes: How much you get paid by Blizzard MikeB? Tue Aug 07 2012 10:41AM Report

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