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The staff of MMORPG.com gets together to bring you some behind the scenes insights on stories, the industry and the site itself.

Author: staffblog

Contributors: BillMurphy,MikeB,garrett,SBFord,Grakulen,

Girls in MMOs

Posted by MikeB Thursday April 29 2010 at 3:55PM
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This week’s Community Spotlight focuses on the thread “Most Girls Play…” by uquipo who believes that most female gamers play World of Warcraft. The resulting discussion turned out to be hit-or-miss, but was often funny and at the very least quite insightful, thanks to our resident female readers here at MMORPG.com.

Uquipo’s thoughts:

“I'm guessing most women play WoW.

I'm talking about a per capita amount like out of every 100 people 20 are female.

I once heard that 40% of WoW players were female, but that sounds high.  PvP servers would have fewer women while RP servers would have more, I assume.

I would think a game like EVE would have a small female population.”

With some quick research Cecropia discovered that 3% of EVE’s population are female, and fnorgby followed up with a description of his wife, who played EVE in the past:

Originally posted by Cecropia

I remember CCP actually released the percentage of females that were subbed to EVE a couple of years ago. It was just over 3% at the time.

Heh, two years ago, my wife was one of 'em.  She rode shotgun on nullsec mining operations and was a decent PVP pilot. 

She insists she's not a "gamer", but she played Eve and loved it.  She plays CIv 4 mostly now, and refuses to save/restore because that would be "retarded".

Just yesterday she saw me playing XCOM and was all up in my grill about it.  I'm going to install it on her computer today and school her in the basics.

But she's not a "gamer".  Nope.”

Shae (a female gamer) responded to some of Uquipo’s unfounded generalizations with some snark of her own:

 

“Yup -  We're taking WoW over one server at a time.

We have female only guilds, we have pink tabards and yes when we get on vent we do nothing but talk about shopping, shoes and how the last time we got our nails done how great they looked right after but like 2 days later they've completely gone to hell.

And no, we don't have a clue how to play the game, I personally just push random bottoms and hope something goes right; who knew if you got 25 of us on the lich king doing the same thing mr. frostbite would go down so easily... iknowright?

Oh and if you don't play WoW and play some other more complicated, convoluted, "technical" game like eve, or runscape or whatever to like... get away from us. Don't bother man, just don't bother. We're all over the place.

We have our pink mouses, our pink keyboards, t-shits that spell the word Girl in like 50 different ways (i.e.: Girlz, Gurls, Gurlz, G!lrz, Gu!z, etc, etc), we have our bras, our tampons, make up, spare sweater in case it's cold (it doesn't matter where we're going, it could always be cold) and we're going to take over... oh yeah, we're taking over.

Oh yeah by the way.

Farmville is... AWESOME!”

Sinella, another female reader, plays RuneScape and A Tale in the Desert, and offers her perspective on what games interest her:

“There are a lot of female players in RuneScape and A Tale in the Desert. Being a woman myself I can tell that I prefer games where there are more activities than only combat, and where I can get the feeling of achievement without being forced to fight.”

Selenica, you guessed it, another female reader (they do exist, you know!) enjoyed Star Wars Galaxies and got the idea that many other female gamers did as well:

“Star Wars Galaxies used to be fairly populated with female players. Probably because it had such a wide variety of things to do/professions. A lot of opportunity to socialize and cooperate on things other than combat. That's what drew me to SWG. 

I like combat as much as any guy. I play games like GTA 4, Killzone 2, MGS4 all the time... but when it comes to MMO gaming and interacting with other players I prefer teamwork and friendships over pvp.”

Alleyia enjoyed FFXI and is now looking forward to FFXIV, contrary to popular belief she did not enjoy WoW as much as some would believe:

“I played FFXI for years and now I'm waiting for FFXIV.

Never really liked WoW, just got a Priest to 52 and a Paladin to 41.. didn't like the graphics, hated the community, but i liked BGs and my first guild there wasn't too bad. Played on a PvP Server because I liked the conflict between the horde and the alliance. Oh and female undeads ftw.

I also played Aion for about two Months, didn't really like it either and a couple of f2p games. FFXI is the only mmorpg that was able to hold my interest (just got no more time for it T_T).

Now I'm playing Allods Online and I like it so far. :3”

How could we have this thread without the always insightful comments of girlgeek? Come on now!

“Most girls play......whatever they damn well WANT to play. I don't think you can pick any particular game that "most girls" play. We play all kinds of games. Asia Carerra plays Unreal Tournament and consistently gives guys a pretty good schooling on HOW to FPS. lol  Mila Kunis was addicted to WoW. Other women play other games. We can't really be lumped into any "most women" comment, I don't think.”

I was honestly surprised with how many girl gamers came out of the wood work to clear the fog on this subject. I really expected it to just be a bunch of us guys, well, making stuff up that made sense to us, and at the end of the day for the topic to remain as mysterious as it began (well, not to Uquipo who had it all figured out!).

Despite some sexist comments, the responses were quite insightful and hopefully the thread will continue with even more interesting responses from our other female readers.

I’m not a girl, so I can’t really speak to what female MMO gamers play, but I did meet my girlfriend on The Matrix Online over four years ago, so I can tell you at least one girl was into that particular game.

Are you a girl gamer? What is your favorite MMO? And what criteria do you look for when deciding whether or not you are interested in a new MMO?

Yamota writes:

Honestly, why would anyone care?

Does anyone care what most boys play?

African american? Asians? Gays?

I find the whole quite un-interesting. Am I alone?

Thu Apr 29 2010 4:56PM Report
razerblade29 writes:

agree yamota

Thu Apr 29 2010 4:58PM Report
Methos12 writes:

I also have to agree, why are we still making such a huge deal of this whole thing? Yes, women also play MMOs.. what a shocker, huh? What annoys me is that, from my personal experience, women tend to close up or act more reserved from there on when this situation arises in a guild or on TS because of the whole forced and unwanted placement in the spotlight.

They exist, they are real... deal with it and move on.

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:12PM Report
Khalathwyr writes:

I care because female gamers seem to want more aspects to gameplay than just "I pwnz joo d00d". Aspects like SWG (pre NGE) had. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying females don't like to do some pwnzing, but on the whole it just seems they think more outside the box than alot of the guys as far as what an online world should be.

I agree with those thought and hey, if they can band together enough to get their voices heard  and a developers incorporates those elements in a AAA title, well, the combat focused e-peen MMOs out there will see an exodus of us guys who agree and want more out of an MMO. As it is right now there is little choice with there only being a handfull of dated games or games that offer no combat at all.

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:19PM Report
tapeworm00 writes:

Khalathwyr knows his shit. If we really want innovation in the genre, we need to start thinking about other things apart from essentially phallic combat. 

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:26PM Report
Aristides writes:

The reason to care is one word : market.

If you're a development company or publisher and recognize that your products are not very effective at reaching some 50% of the population, that makes your marketing department extremely itchy.

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:39PM Report
Aristides writes:

I also concur emphatically with Khalathwyr and tapeworm00.

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:40PM Report
Sid_Vicious writes:

www.insideagon.com was made by a female who plays a 'hardcore' pvp game : P

 

My GF plays with me and so does my sister . .. we loves this game too.

Thu Apr 29 2010 5:43PM Report
Zairu writes:

agree with Yamato.

Thu Apr 29 2010 6:00PM Report
PortiaBell writes:

I'm a girl gamer and have been since my parent's got hooked on Zelda way back in the day. Out of all the MMO's I've ever played (and the list is long), I have found more girl gamers in F2P games than any other type out there. 

In FFXI, WoW, Aion, LotRO, etc. I was in guilds that were 90%+ guys. 

While beta testing and playing games like Perfect World, FlyFF, iRO, etc. those guilds were filled evenly half and half. At the worst, 1/4 were female.

There is a HUGE collection of girl gamers out there. Most of them are happy collecting hats and costumes in games that offer it, while beating down boys in PVP and gearing up in high end content. I've been there and done it. Pisses em, off. It's great. Just because we like customization, doesn't mean we can't figure out how to slaughter our foes.

So yah... if you want to game with girls, head to the likes of cuter, more customizable F2P MMO's and you'll see an entirely new culture of girl gaming xD

Thu Apr 29 2010 6:51PM Report
Nifa writes:

Khalathwyr hit it on the head.  So did tapeworm and Aristides.

As a developer/marketer, if you are creating a product that may not reach roughly 50% (ok, let's say 40%, accounting for women who do like combat such as myself) of your intended market, you may want to re-examine both your product and your marketing for a moment and figure out what it is that your target audience actually wants. Just a thought.

Thu Apr 29 2010 6:55PM Report
katistar4 writes:

I find this interesting. I'm a sociologist, so I find almost any statistical information intriguing.

I'm female and I play LOTRO.

Thu Apr 29 2010 7:26PM Report
Butch808 writes:

Pretty much EVERY guild i have ever joined in any MMO type game had at least 1 girl in it.

Infact in Darkfall at launch we had 6 girls in our clan and a few were decent players.

thats gotta say somthing.

Thu Apr 29 2010 7:45PM Report
Rodentofdoom writes:

Im a bloke .... I've played online games for almost 2 decades now

and in that time I've pretty much met every type of 'generic gamer stereotype' you could ever hope to meet, or hope to avoid ...

the gamers sex made no difference, both sexes were represented in each 'grouping'

Women add diversity to the online game community, and the community is strengthened by that divesity .... long may it continue.

Thu Apr 29 2010 7:49PM Report
just1opinion writes:

I'm a female gamer, and I've played every genre of games (not too fond of RTS, love FPS (Painkiller is my fave), absolutely <3 rpgs, mmorpgs, adventures, and action/adventures, oh...and racing sims if I'm doin' it the console way...and Burnout is the only one I own presently since the kids took the XBOX and left me with only a Gamecube). But this is about MMORPGs, so....

I've played a good many. Haven't found even ONE f2p that held my interest past about level 30, and at that, only Perfect World and Runes of Magic were able to get that much out of me. I prefer the pay to play games, but I like assorted ones by AAA studios and indie developers, like the folks that made Fallen Earth.

I play EQ2 (have been off and on since Apr 2005), I played WoW from release until Feb 2010, Warhammer and LotRO alongside for some months in there. I usually play 1-3 MMOs at a time.

When finances require "cutting back," however, EQ2 is the winner hands down.

Must haves in an MMO for me....highly customizeable housing, LOTS of races and classes (or skill based), crafting that requires more than clicking ONE button, fluid combat that is engaging, games that graphically don't use tons of BLOOM...and if they do....I turn that shit OFF if I have the option, I like fantasy environments or real world environments....I do NOT LIKE OUTER SPACE games...blah...to me that's just drab and boring as a setting. I also want to be able to make MY character not look like anyone else's, so...appearance gear to "wear over" the armor is a bonus to me.

I like world PvP better than battlegrounds, I don't particularly care for arena events. I don't, however, much care for FFA loot rules for PvP unless it's done the way it was in Ultima Online (post Trammel, sorry...sue me) where you can insure at least some of your items and there are some safe areas to craft, etc.

I like a good story with cohesive lore. I like questing and yes...I read all the quests, at least the first time. I am a collector and I like to earn titles of all kinds, but NOT just for silly "holiday" crap that anyone can do. I like titles that take some effort and mean something....like PvP titles, or like Loremaster in WoW, or things of that nature.

I like the social aspects of MMOs and I love helping my guild by crafting for them when they need things, etc. Free to the guild, but I also like to make an in game FORTUNE, and because of that...I usually have multiple (if not all) crafting skills on alts. I play alts for the crafting, and so I'm better equipped in groups and raids by knowing how all the classes play. It makes you a better teammate, imo, if you know WTF everyone ELSE has to deal with.

I guess if all of that is girly....then...so be it.

Thu Apr 29 2010 8:12PM Report
SnarlingWolf writes:

It is fun to watch how defensive those women gamers can get.

 

If someone where to do a study and show exactly why games most female gamers played and what games most female gamers avoided, even though it was a clear cut study it seems like some of those females would get angry about being "lumped in".

 

Phsychology exists, and it works. So yes you could easily do a couple studies or analysis and figure out exactly what most female gamers play. Just like you could figure out what most guys play, what most younger people play and what most older people play.

 

It doesn't mean the world is evil for figuring out patterns, don't be so defensive and get over that whole girl power thing, the spice girls ended a long time ago.

Thu Apr 29 2010 10:19PM Report
Ziboo writes:

Agree with you Girlgeek.  Play all types, but love MMO's paid over F2P.  You pretty much covered my sentiment.

What Shae wrote - awesome!  You go girl! ROFL

Thu Apr 29 2010 10:49PM Report
Isturi writes:

Only question you have to ask yourself being a Guy. Do you car or dose it bother you that you got your ass kicked by a girl in your favorite pvp mmo.

As for me I say bring it on sister. heeheee

Thu Apr 29 2010 11:51PM Report
Isturi writes:

oh darn i forgot to add the e to that car lol do you care? lol

Thu Apr 29 2010 11:53PM Report
Juiceman writes:

nothing wrong with a little sociology ...

Fri Apr 30 2010 12:08AM Report
Juiceman writes:

nothing wrong with a little sociology ...

Fri Apr 30 2010 12:08AM Report
Jaedor writes:

You're just as likely to run into a 10 year old kid kicking your butt. :)

I'm a female player, end game raider, altaholic, and play both male and female toons. I played MUDs back in the day, StartCraft and Diablo II, and my intro to MMOs was WoW. But I've also played Ryzom, LotRO, Aion, AO and EQ. There are way too many stereotypes around about gender but I've found a couple patterns in my gaming time:

  • Females do the golddigger routine much more easily than males.
  • Males are visual and will hit on anything that strikes their fancy.
  • Females are as competitive as males but mask it with fluff to appear "softer". It's BS, btw.
  • As it plays out in games, females are generally more interested in the nuts and bolts of society and influence, where males are more interested in territory and direct combat.
  • Both genders care passionately about epeen but females are sneakier about it.
/two cents
Fri Apr 30 2010 12:18AM Report
Blazz writes:

I like that Jaedor. Thanks.

As the beard in my avatar states, I have the ability to grow beards. I am man. Roar. *goes off to piss on a tree*

My tree right there. Now get away from my harem, or shall we have an alpha fight to the death?

If it was "back in the day", like, tens of thousands of years ago, this would all be relevant, and I would care more about male vs. female things.

But since a woman can get the same job as me, and on occaision do it better, well, I really don't care too much anymore.

As I don't plan to be in marketing or psychology or socialogy, I'm good for now not knowing odd statistics on sex, race, age, etc.

Fri Apr 30 2010 1:07AM Report
UnholyVashX writes:

I think people care because we like to think the person we are cybering with could actually be a female.

Fri Apr 30 2010 1:19AM Report
malfury1 writes:

^ Couldn't stop laughing at this.

Fri Apr 30 2010 2:09AM Report
jshirland writes:

MikeB, what was your character name in Matrix Online?  (I played that too for 4 years, so I'm curious if you were someone I knew.)

Fri Apr 30 2010 4:11AM Report
Praetoriani writes:

I'm always amazed at the comments from male posters when they elevate what women want in an MMORPG as being far more refined and, as one person put it, 'out of the box' than what male players would want. This is the case even though many female players say they want the exact same thing as male players.

Neither the male nor female audience is homogenous, and neither is somehow more mature or refined or elevated above the other. Have you seen the amount of pro-sandbox/socializing MMORPGs from male players? I don't understand why so many (male) posters feel the need to put the female gamer on a pedestal, just as much as I don't understand the rampant sexist remarks against women. I can say they both annoy me equally.

Fri Apr 30 2010 4:59AM Report
Hathi writes:

It is almost 95% inevitable that people will /tell me "R you a girl for real?"

I always get a Beavis/Butthead cartoon image in my head when this happens. Beavis is asking whats my gender again. is he chuckling at his monitor too?

Fri Apr 30 2010 8:46AM Report
greymann writes:

In my opinion a lot of mmo players are either women or act like women so it makes no difference to me. 

Fri Apr 30 2010 11:18AM Report
MareWinds writes:

Some random thoughts --

While playing WoW, I noticed that across guilds, about 25-33% of the players were female. Most of them did not seem to put as many hours into the game during peak times, but top level characters with mid to high level alts were common. Everyone raided at end game, when that was the only real choice for character progression.

When LotRO came along, estimates and guesses suggested that around 50% of the player base was female, and I do believe it. Generally, women like a good storyline, and it's hard to beat Tolkien. I found that men and women in that game seemed to enjoy the social features equally (if anything, the men were more "hardcore" about RP overall) and the society developed by the players is very give-and-take.

I know there are many women playing EVE also -- women enjoy strategic combat, some pf them a lot more than simple hack-n-slash, and that's how EVE, and good PvP in any game, seem to work. I love PvP, LOVE it, although like many players of either gender, a requirement for me is the availability of safe zones, whether it's a capital city with guards that won't allow fighting, or just a port to your own home where PvP must be consentual.

I think for most women, MMOs that keep them hooked are those with a variety of choices, from PvP AND PvE combat to complex crafting, and from reasons to socialize to the opportunity to enjoy a deep, epic story. You usually won't find women in a game that's all PvP, all the time. Consider how our minds work -- we can be linear, but we're usually juggling several things at once. That is what it takes to make an MMO that appeals to both genders: complexity.

Fri Apr 30 2010 12:50PM Report
BlueStorm writes:

I've noticed that WoW has more female players (like myself) than other MMORPGs.

But I've played a  lot of other games, and actually enjoyed them. I tried SW Galaxies, EVE, LOTRO, Aion, and some other free games. I have to admit that I didn't find any other woman in EVE, but in the other games I did.

I actually was introduced to MMORPGs by EverQuest, were 30% of my guild players were women. But you now, nowadays I don't actually see many difference between men or women (unless noobs kinda tend to be men :P).

And yes, I've played games like CS! And enjoyed it!

Or maybe I'm just too nerd/geek. But I'm a girl gamer, and damn proud of it :P

Fri Apr 30 2010 1:32PM Report
scuubeedoo writes:

gurls omg ima nub should i bring plastic shield of protection+1 or we gonna live without it?

Fri Apr 30 2010 2:12PM Report
Battlekruse writes:

Who cares ?

I agree with Yamato.

Fri Apr 30 2010 7:11PM Report
sschrupp writes:

To insist there's no difference in women and men in gaming is silly I think. If there's no difference between men and women in gaming, then there must be no difference in the rest of life. That's why there are men and women sections to clothing departments. That's why there are men and womens jewelry. That's why there is a makeup aisle at stores. That's why.... There ARE differences between how a majority of men and women think. Not ALL men and women, but a majority. If that weren't true our society would be much different.

Whether it's by nature handed down through evolution (or religious aspect if you prefer) or societal pressure due to customs there ARE differences when looking at the population as a whole.

Those differences can be studied, catalogued, and then used in product development. You think ginormous companies that create consumer goods don't have a TON of data stating "X% of women prefer our products to be Y color" or "X% of men don't like option Z of our product"? That sort of thing determines what products are produced and sold to the masses most effectively and which products fail miserably.

Just because data like that exists doesn't mean that individuals HAVE to fit into those buckets. Just because there's a makeup aisle at every general store doesn't mean as a woman you HAVE to like makeup. But I sure know more women that DO like makeup, and flowers, and pink than I know women that like leather, and spikes, and loud vehicles.

And thank god for those differences. I happen to like the fact that my fiance is into the things she is. And I'm pretty sure she's thankful that I'm NOT into makeup, and frills, and pink, and...

So when it comes to gaming I think it's very interesting to know what sort of MMO aspects MOST women (not all, so stop being obstinate to those that are offended) enjoy. And why do *I* find it interesting? Well, because I'm a gamer and my fiance isn't.

HOWEVER, she's shown a little interest in that aspect of my life. And knowing the general trend (trend, NOT absolute!) might give me some insight into how I can best introduce her to gaming without scaring her away.

Knowing which game has a higher percentage of women players than other games would allow me to research that game to get an idea of why it differs from other games. Knowing that data would allow me to compare the trend's statistics with what I know of my fiance. Knowing that data would benefit me by having a higher degree of success in introducing my fiance to gaming, and it would benefit her by allowing me to find a game she'll enjoy the most.

Sat May 01 2010 8:12AM Report
Gazzooks writes:

This whole subject is ridiculous. Period

Who *^((*&%( cares what the Female gender plays. Does the Female gender care what the Male gender play? Of course not.

I am sick and tired of the same old crap. Get over it and get on with it!

Ridiculous!

Sun May 02 2010 7:23AM Report
sschrupp writes:

Game designers care. People with non-gaming girlfriends, wives, etc that want to know what to introduce them to care. Sociologists care. People with inquiring minds instead of closed minds care. The person that wrote this article cares. But evidently all of those people are just ridiculous.

Sun May 02 2010 8:55AM Report
lynxie writes:

I am a girl gamer.

My favourite MMORPG?

UO, FFXI and DaoC. I think I like FFXI the most.

What I really want to see in a MMORPG?

Highly customizeable characters, and housing (decorating)

Grouping, were you can link skills/spells together for better damage and also were everyone is important.

Solo, from when you don't have much time, or just not in the mood to talk.

Nice story lines with cutscenes. (FFXI)

More to do then combat. some minigames who are fun to play. Crafting should be a class on it's own. Player should be able to make their own shops.

No super weapon and armor, just basic things, that will need a repair and finally break someday, so crafters are always needed and important.

Maybe some pets that you can raise, and that can help you in combat if you want.

Realm versus realm, or group versus group combat, a little like DaoC or warhammer, but in a smaller area.

Mon May 03 2010 3:44AM Report
Lonzo writes:

Well, when my Girlfriend owns someone in PVP she is just drooling like a man would...

Yeah, girl are human too :-)

Mon May 03 2010 8:02AM Report
eikona writes:

I don't think it's surprising that there are more girl gamers in WoW, simply because there are .... more _gamers_ in WoW.  WoW brought so many more people into MMOs, of course there's going to be  a larger chunk of women. There's going to be a larger chunk of _everything_.

 

I'm a girl gamer. What I want is.. fun. That's it. :) I'm more likely to try a new game if it has tons of customization, and non combat options. But I'm just as happy to play a game where everyone is a clone of one another if the gameplay is engaging.

Mon May 03 2010 2:32PM Report
Sofia_cw writes:

<---Girl Gamer here,my current mmorpg is Warhammer I tell you what there is nothing like being at work all day and then comming home to deal with husbands and kids and then to log into a game where you can take all your frustrations out on other people  is a wonderful thing. For me It is all about the PVP or RVR,Battlegrounds.. love eet... I have played games such as Daoc and WOW and COH, LOTR ,AOC .. customization is a must,also I am  teamplayer and enjoy the social aspects of a good game..

Wed May 05 2010 10:38AM Report
Baromen writes:

I don't care if the person in my group is a woman, man-gina, etc as long as they are there to play the game.  I've run into so many women who are there to be flirty and socialize and just end up playing the game too.  That's fine if you're just doing solo activities, but if you're in a group with me and you'd rather flirt with our shaman then heal me then I have no interest in having you around.  

 

Recently I've found an amazing amount of women playing Left4Dead 2... but the amazing part is they are great players who are there to play the game as well as they can... not sit there and go, "OMG I'M A GURL!  HEY BOYS!"

 

In order to get fair and balanced treatment online... just play the game to the best of your abilities and you're just another cool person to play with. 

Fri May 21 2010 3:06PM Report
Madimorga writes:

I'm a female gamer, I started with Anarchy Online, played it for years, then played WoW for a year, and now I'm playing Eve Online, because more than anything, I'm a sci-fi fan.  I'd love to play Fallen Earth, but my computer won't handle it.  I built this computer cheap, and now I'm paying for it.  So as soon as I get the money, I'm going to build a system that can handle Fallen Earth.  I don't do my nails.  Ever.  And I've never owned a tshirt with "Girl" on it, or any spelling variation thereof.  Die stereotypes, die!

Thu Jun 03 2010 3:48PM Report
Tazlor writes:

why are girls making such a big deal out of this?  do they honestly think that nobody here knew girls played MMOs?  are they just looking for attention?  a big hug or a round of applause?  yes, you play games just like the rest of us.  what makes you so special?  i'm getting really tired of all these "girls play games too!" posts and "a female point of view" reviews.  why is it such an amazing thing when a girl plays a game and they post it up like it's some huge achievement that's never been done before?  it looks quite stupid.  is it that hard of a task to where you need to go tell everybody that you're playing a game?

 

it was cute before, but now it's just annoying.  yes girls play games, congratz.

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