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The staff of MMORPG.com gets together to bring you some behind the scenes insights on stories, the industry and the site itself.

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Contributors: BillMurphy,MikeB,garrett,SBFord,Grakulen,

Community Spotlight: Largest Scale/Best PvP?

Posted by MikeB Thursday January 27 2011 at 10:22AM
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This week’s Community Spotlight focuses on the thread “Largest scale PvP/Best PvP?” by Greymoor. In the thread, Greymoor asserts that Darkfall has the largest scale and best PvP offerings out of all the games out there, but he’s got an open mind, so he asks the MMORPG.com community if they feel any other games offer better PvP:

This of course discounts EvE which has massive fights but it's not the same as physically controlling your character.

I believe Darkfall has the largest and best PvP scene out of all the currently released MMOs, are there any MMO's you'd put up out there as simular sized / action packed PvP?

Aion came close to the size of the actual PvP but we all know those fortress battles were just one sided lag fests.

Never played a game with better PvP than DF. WoW and Aion had good PvP but it was of a different type and didn't get the adrenline going.

So what say you? Are there better PvP games out there?

Mortal Online promised something simular although less PvP based. (The game still needs work though)

Astoria agrees that Darkfall has some solid PvP, though he notes that Warhammer Online also offered some good PvP fun:

Darkfall definitely can have some good city fights. The only other game that has been consistently fun large scale PvP recently for me is Warhammer. Unlike DF, you can be constantly in PvP and that is how you level mainly. However, no loot, kinda just respawn fairly close by for most maps and run back so there isn't much virtual fear as much as DF and definitely no death penalty like EVE.

I was in keep fights in Aion near launch, but they were 100% a numbers game imo. There is zero skill in building your character, just RNG and time. WAR at least has different ways you can roll.

Looking forward to Earthrise. It has the tools to allow largescale PvP, but lag etc hasn't really been tested. Right now they're on a sortof temp test server even.

Axehilt feels that PlanetSide offered the best large scale PvP, but doesn’t really feel that any of the current crop of MMOs are worth any accolades as far as “best PvP” goes:

Best large-scale PVP: Planetside

Best PVP: I find the best PVP in LOL currently (and in the past from FPSes, fighting games, and RTSes.)

Personally I feel it's sort of a joke to call it "PVP" when fights are completely pre-determined like they are in DF or EVE, where there's no interesting decisions to be made during the fight.  All of the important decisions are made before the fight, and tend to be so abstract or bland that they're not very interesting (basically (a) mass more friends, and/or (b) accumulate more wealth/progression.)

But some people like the zerg and grind.

I like when combat is an interesting match of wits and skill with my opponent.  Completely different from what you find in DF/EVE.

Stridar feels the game “Rising Force Online” offers both some of the best and largest scale PvP:

Rising Force online had some very fun, very large scale PvP that I have to rank up there with my PvP fights in AC, SB, DF, Dark Age of Camelot and Eve.   I can't believe some people answered WoW PvP....what?

For biggest fights that I've personally been in it's been Rising Force with a few hundred player on 3 different sides.  The most fun pvp would probably be some of the smaller 20-25 people groups in Shadowbane.

What others have said about Eve is completely true, I'm still learning it so i can't say to  much about it.  It's easy to see that just selecting a target and hitting orbit at a certain distance is not the way to win a fight.

Currently, I prefer the PvP in DC Universe Online, though I used to be a WAR junkie. On a PvP server in DCUO the entire concrete jungle of Gotham City is my playground, and the quest design lends itself well to facilitating some random large scale (and action packed) street fights. Kicking a guy in the teeth so he flies off a building and then comboing him all the way down to ground level is an experience you really can’t get anywhere else!

ericbelser writes:

First off, I am commenting purely on the "western" markey; I just have never played any of the Asian market games or followed them enough to know jack about their world dynamics.

I think there are really only two contenders for the "largest scale" pvp category and those would be EVE and DAoC. The argument that somehow EVE isn't pvp because you're controlling a ship instead of some humanoid avatar is nonsensical; by that standard none of the tank or mecha games are "pvp" either.

EVE clearly wins the both on the basis of largest battles and longest duration, I know of no other game that has seen hundreds (if not thousands) of characters engaged in months long struggles for territory. DAoC at its height had the same kind of scope to it, with hundreds of players fighting over long periods to dominate different frontiers. I don't consider Darkfall in the same league for "largest" mostly because of its relatively low overall population and single world.

"Best PVP" is just a nebulous idea...in many ways I would say that WW2Online could be called "best" because it is all about player tactics, manuever and positioning...there are no skills/gear choices or levels to "predetermine" the outcome. Or I could argue that EVE is best because every loss is permanent and what is pvp without consequence? Or even EQ1 on the Zeks because it was the hardest to advance in of the ones I have played?

Thu Jan 27 2011 10:53AM Report
Athcear writes:

I'd have to say that I like large scale battles over little deathmatches.  Especially when there's something to fight over, rather than just racking up more kills.  Also, to comment on Axehilt's comment, only a situation where your starting positions are completely equal can pre-fight choices not be crucial.  An ambush or a flanking maneuver is a preparation choice.  In real life, most battles are over before they start.  That's simply the nature of battle.

Thu Jan 27 2011 10:54AM Report
Badaboom writes:

Greymore is right.  Darkfall has fantastic pvp on a large scale.  However, as Darkfall keeps adding things with their patches and expansions, the performance for the large fights seem to be getting worse.

To anyone who thinks there is no strategy in Darkfall, you are wrong.  Location and placement of your troops is key.  Flanking is key.  Splitting up a force is key.  Focus firing is key.  Having a different people who focus on magic, melee and healing are key.

Thu Jan 27 2011 11:09AM Report
Deivos writes:

That's the standard fare for any PvP game Bada. Most modern shooters even deal with the different combat roles issue.

 

I agree with Axe personally. Planetside had some of the most active large scale combat scenarios with the widest range of strategy and planning necessary. These battles extended beyond what was going on in one location too even, as people would be sieging across three different networked bases to destroy supply chains to a facility, taking down outlying towers, and controlling sections of the facilities themselves.

 

It just had more going on and more strategy going into it's fights, as each one was playing a role in a much greater battle. Which frankly not even EVE does.

Thu Jan 27 2011 3:16PM Report
Mykell writes:

The best pvp is going to be the pvp your best at. I suck at typical mmo pvp as i'm a slow leveler and prefer to take my time but i more than hold my own in FPS'ers or games like GA and DCUO.

To enjoy pvp you have to feel you can at least hold your own. And winning helps a hell of a lot lol. No-one enjoyd constantly being owned.

Thu Jan 27 2011 3:57PM Report
Badaboom writes:

Deivos, you say that what I said in Darkfall is standard fare for any pvp game.  I disagree.  It is becoming a "lost art" for modern MMO's.  Most the MMO's coming out nowadays are more carebear than WoW (didn't think that is possible, but it is I guess) with nothing but instanced pvp battlegrounds, with no risk or anything on the line except a quick trip to the graveyard.

One of the best things about Darkfall pvp is also the least talked about.  One character per account.  This is huge in the sense that you can and will make name for yourself...for the good or bad.  Accountability, it's a good thing.

Thu Jan 27 2011 5:46PM Report
Slampig writes:

I remember some AWESOME PvP back on the old Rallos Zek server, before the team crap and the mergers... Maybe the one the reasons I still love those days... You could talk to ANYONE in the game... Made it more personal and more exciting...

Fri Jan 28 2011 2:08AM Report
Slampig writes:

Having said that, largest scale and BEST PvP? I would have to go with Dark Age of Camelot... My two fingers....

Fri Jan 28 2011 2:16AM Report
mCalvert writes:

No contest for EVE as it has the largest most complex battles with the most consequences. Darkfall would definetly be next as it has a PVP focus. You will constantly see large PVP battles with lots of complexity. Again due to the high stakes of full loot and real death penalties. Warhammer is pretty much all PVP now but has little organization an no real death penalties or complexity to it. Take a NPC castle, rinse repeat. But it does constantly have large battles.

Fri Jan 28 2011 7:06AM Report
cingot writes:

Shadowbane son! Ah how I miss SB

Fri Jan 28 2011 8:32AM Report

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