What Gaming Should Be

As an avid lifelong gamer, I try to describe what has worked well and poorly in games I've played, and in any given gaming scenario, to define how it could best be handled as a result.

Author: reillan

Has nobody here ever played ANY OTHER MMORPG?  There is not one thing in this whole list that is UNIQUE to WoW. 

I realize that WoW is probably the only MMORPG that most people have ever played but all of these things are common to the MMO genre. WoW ripped of DAoC.  DAoC ripped of Everquest.  Everquest ripped off Ultima Online.  Get over it.  It will happen again and there will still be a bunch of MMO noobs talking about WoW - possibly the most generic and copycat MMO of them all.

To be fair, I didn't play DAoC or UO.  I played EQ only for a little while.  What I do remember is that EQ, regardless of what similarities may exist between it and WoW, did not LOOK like WoW.  What you can't see in these screens is that WoW skill trainers even used to look identical to how Rift currently looks... yes, NOW they have those icons and arrange things slightly differently, but they used to look different...

I've also played Vanguard, AoC, WAR, Darkfall, STO, GW, and PotBS.  NONE of those shared these 4 things in common with WoW or Rift.  So it is possible to do it without ripping off another system directly.

Again, I'm not trying to say Rift is WRONG for doing these things, and I'm not saying that these are unique to WoW... just that in my opinion Rift did copy WoW on these 4 items, and copied them directly. 

and LotRO and DDO... don't know why I didn't mention those in my list... anyway...

I hate when people always say "omg they ripped off [insert game here]!" I'm pretty sure using an idea in a similar way isn't against the law. Of course I'm no law expert. I would think if it were, then we wouldn't have "different" yet similar things to choose from. We wouldn't have a Nokia, Motorola or LG making us many different Cell phones.. or IBM, Toshiba or Alienware making us awesome computers. Similar yet different in their own respect.

Wait.. in Rift, you can walk and run? OMG THEY RIPPED OFF BIPEDALISM! =P

Wait, maybe I misunderstood your point then.  Your argument is that certain minor visual/design implementations are the same as WoW's so people shouldn't roll their eyes at people for drawing comparisons between WoW and Rift?

Every MMO to come out since WoW has been compared to WoW. 

The two do have minor superficial visual/design similarities.  They have a few pretty major game-play similarities also.  Global cooldown for example.  But everything mentioned in your post, and most everything mentioned by others has appeared in other games at some point.

What I am saying is only that these ideas have been around before.  For example, the very first MMORPG that I ever played with bag storage in the vault/bank storage came out years before WoW.  It was a small 2d Korean game who's name I no longer recall but still, it was there.  And a couple of other MMO's came out with the same thing afterwards.

While I applaud your repertoire of MMO's, you have to understand that I played UO a month after launch and have played so many MMO's since then that I couldn't possibly remember them all.  And maybe that is the difference between our perspectives.

I've seen idea after idea copied from one MMO to the next whereas you came into the genre when the majority of the copying had been completed and a fundamental MMORPG structure had already been developed.

I get what you are saying, that it is your opinion that Trion copied these things from WoW and I'm not even disagreeing.  But what you are saying and what most other posters are saying are not the same thing.

I think that the similarities you gave as evidence are minor and not suitable evidence for many of the other posts I have seen comparing WoW and Rift. 

I do think that Rift and WoW are similar in many ways.  I just also think that much of that similarity is just standard fanfare for MMO's in general - specifically MMORPG's designed by older game designers.

FYI, companies are constantly copyrighting EVERY little thing about their games.  PC Gamer magaize had an article about what was being copyrighted.  Two items I remember: a Death Animation, and a  HUD Course Directional Arrow in a Driving game.  My point is, if Motorola thought they could win, they would sue LG.  You are probaly too young to remember that IBM DID sue over the whole IBM clone market 20 years ago.  

Hating and getting angry over FACTS, is not the foundation of an intelligent discussion.  In these instances Trion chose to do it like WoW did it.  If you wanted to discount facts then you should have pointed out what Rift does well.  You could have talked about the Rift system, or bedtter still the Incursions. 

What do I have to talk about: the 180 degree camra bug, and the 50% Global Cool Down (GCD) flaw.  When coming out of auto-run the camera will jump to an arbitrary direction, that can take 2 or 3 tries to correct.  Secondly, you can't have aspell pending until 50% of the GCD expires.  These are both things they didn't copy from WoW, at lest I never saw them in WoW. 

I never tried Rift's macro system, that may take care of the 50% GCD flaw.

I did notice the GCD thing, but didn't have a good screenshot of it.  I don't actively play WoW at the moment (I hate it, let my subscription slide), and have to rely on a friend for the screens.  But I digress...

Yes, there are similarities between many games... and those similarities I never said were a *bad* thing or a reason to say that Rift is, for instance, in violation of copyright infringement or any such thing.  These are all assumptions that occur as part of word connotations, perhaps, or because of various people's postings on forums, etc., and they are specifically not a part of my post.  As you said at the top of your post, Zonzai, mine was only, for the purpose of showing a few things that are similar and to do absolutely nothing else.  The similarities exist and should not be immediately discounted by people seeking to free Rift from any association with WoW, and that's the end of my argument.  This association doesn't have to be a bad thing, and we can still say that Rift is a brand new game with great new ideas even if it turns out that ALL of those ideas are stolen from somewhere else.

Everything copies everything, so that what Soloman said, "there is nothing new under the sun," is absolutely true.  Something is new only when it combines reused elements in a new way.

get over it, there are ways in which Rift and Wow are the same and there are ways  which they are completly different, for example the subclass system, i find it awesome... please stop this "OMG RIFT IS A COPY OF WOW" is just plain stupid..

Read ... the ... comments ...

I did not say what you say I said.

I think you were asserting more than that. 

What I'm saying, and maybe I didn't make myself clear, is that the reasons you listed for comparing WoW and Rift are NOT significant considering the copy and paste mentallity of MMORPG designers. 

Global cooldown has existed in many games.  Everything in WoW, let alone in Rift has existed in games that came out before either of them.

You stated in your opening paragraph, there are many people who believe that the comparison is only drawn because so many inexperienced MMO gamers played WoW and had no experience with the cut and paste mentality of MMORPG designers.  There is a logical foundation to that belief.

Plus, every game since WoW has been compared to WoW.  Its hard to take it seriously when you've seen both the repition of the copying of ideas and the repition of the claim that every game since WoW is a copy of WoW.

The thing is that your claim is basically "no game should be called a copy if it's not at least X% copied"... we just disagree about how much X is.  There's no reason why X has to be *any* value - the value which we assign it is purely arbitrary.  If you think X must be 70%, someone else will think it needs to be 90% and so a game that is 75% wouldn't be enough for them, while it would be enough for you. 

By which I mean - there is no right or wrong answer.  The game does have elements that are copied, therefore X > 0.  Whether it's enough to satisfy you doesn't change the fact that X > 0.

So what the 0.2% similarity you pointed out is enough to say that Rift is a copy of WoW?  Okay. If that's your opinion, you're entitled to it.

For me, those elements (plus talent trees and skill cooldown, which I didn't list) constitute probably 90% of the game.. so, yes, they are.

You seem to have forgotten that both WoW and Rift use the same type of combat.

Several of the classes in Rift use the same mechanics as some of those in WoW.

Rift has mounts. (I know that just about every MMO has mounts but it is still a similarity between the 2)

Rift uses a 2 faction system just like WoW does.

Rift uses a battleground system for PvP just like WoW.

These are just some of the similarities that are there and I'm sure other people have found more.

Interesting screenshots and I can see what the OP is getting at. There are games that share features with WoW of course, but the UIs at least look pretty different. Even games that were blamed for looking just like WoW had more differences than those screenshots (WAR comes to mind) seem to show.

I think you're going a bit over the top though OP when you say that those four screenies represent 90% of the game for you. If you can show some more 'direct rip-offs' it would make more of a case, but I feel that 4 UI windows are not enough to make a game a direct WoW-clone.

To me the most important part of the game are its other systems such as the combat mechanics, PvE and PvP elements, crafting mechanics, community tools, and what there is on offer in the game, rather than what the UI looks like. If any of those were direct rip-offs, that would concern me greatly and would keep me from trying out this game.

Well, I did say plus the global cooldown timers and talent trees... but yes, when I say 90% - crafting and skill training are a big part of the game for me, as I don't do PvP and raiding is a rare occurrance. 

If a game is too similiar, people complain and say it's a clone. If a game is too different, people complain and say it's no good.

Players are never happy and like to complain about anything and everything.

Actually there are no skill ranks any more in WoW(beyond gathering profession bonuses). While you learn different spells/abilites as you level there isnt Flash Heal(rank 1) or (rank 2) as there was in Wrath and previous. All skills now scale with your level.

While in Rift there is Healing Breath(Rank 1)(Rank 2) and so on. The only comparsion that could be made is the root system and WoW now spacing of abilites as you level.

Ok anyone who plays rift knows that:

1)the main draw for rift is if you like WoW,EQ2, and Warhammer but don't want to play them anymore will like rift.

2) The people who created rift took parts from all the games they have played and stuff they liked about the games and tried to remove all the stuff they didn't like.

So whats that mean. Yes like any MMORPG out there it will have similarities to many some of the game play. Does that mean its a clone of another game. NO it doesn't. It has its own set of MMO contributions that make it unique.

A good MMORPG has many needs I will list a few.

1) PVP - PVE they have to cater to both parties to get a good player base.

2) Crafting - A lot of players like to spend their days crafting and maxing skills. Have a good assortment of crafting abilities to creat things useful in a game are essential.

3)Skills - A good skill set and customization of such is great for many people who have their own perception of their character. (some games do this well others not so good)

4) Content - Face it not having enough content makes a game end sooner then it began.

5) Combat - If the mechanics for the combat don't work well people tend to get bored easy.

Now I am sure there are many other things but if I put in everything I won't stop typing. The point is most rpg's today have simularities to others. They have to in order to survive. What makes or break a MMORPG is what is unique to itself and I believe Rift has something that will let it stick around. So stop comparing and play decide for yourself if you like it. If you like it keep playing until something else takes your intrest. That is the world of MMORPG in a nutshell. Have fun . Be safe. Kill many things.

Halaster - Rift - Briarwood - Mage

Serpentar - it's like WoW used to be