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Well I was thinking about rambling on about certain aspects of a genre that I've experienced, and where I hope the genre moves forward a lightyear.

Author: nomadian

Guilds and their limited use by mmos..

Posted by nomadian Monday November 3 2008 at 4:42PM
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Ok yes there is raiding but I'm talking about  this situation:

There's a guild, it has all these levels from 1 to 55 lets say. A madeup conversation.

"Anything planned Guild leader?"

Guild leader thinks to himself/herself what guild activity can we do with so many players over so many different levels- it'll be so much easier if everyone was level 70 then we can all do raids.

"People need to level up, we need more 70s in the guild"

People aren't happy with this though so I know I'll do the umpteenth popular mention of raiding crossroads.

"Lets go crossroads!"

Now why is it like this that a Guild is simply a chat channel and a vehicle for finding groups for those that are similar level? Why can't guilds be involving for players at an earlier level? (and be rewarding for them- some people skip say crossroads as it's just a distraction that has no benefit)  I know levels is the focal problem here and that could quite easily be another massive debate that are very frequent here, but surely there are ideas for this shortfall in design to make guilds actually guilds..

There was an option back in the day in Everquest where you could be at war with other guilds. Not everyone's cup of tea being pvp-focused admittedly but I wonder why that's not been made more use of. in various mmos. I mean imagine two guilds being at war in a mmo- and people calling in guild chat of rival guildie locations. That is fun and makes the guild more of an exciting and involving unit.  There are PVE ideas also like joining up to control say a gnoll population that has got out of control, or to be hired by a city to defend against attacking kobalds.. I'm sure there are other ideas as well. 










ArcheusCross writes:

I agree.. Levels are a major problem with mmos nowadays. They completely screw over any of your friends that start earlier. I have always said, why make the game based AROUND leveling? Why not just make leveling a perk? Like some of the skill based sandboxes do?


Mon Nov 03 2008 5:29PM Report
kaleee writes:

Both matters imo

If a mmorpg had fun pvp and ability to play vs who you want, like arraging a guild match, and luck factors reduced, I wouldnt care much about some raiding stuff. + being able to be good at pvp wouldn't require to play pvp for months or raiding instances for atleast as long (which is imo even pretty boring after you beated the encounters once).

I actually long waited for AoC and almost asked a guild before release if I could join. Dunno exactly why i didn't start, but for sure that isn't the endgame pve.

I don't know much about Aion online atm, but i really hope it has something like: being able to conquer towns. challenging opponents for matches ( for this I could even use something as antiuserfriendly as dedicated servers for battlegrounds to Quake style ), pvp minigames with more maps, or more minigames with same ruleset but different area.

Somehing like nomadian said would be cool :D. But most probably I wouldn't want to defend city from kobald attacks on daily basis, but once a week it could be funny.

Lets see how Darkfall Online does. If it ever gets ready. What I readed / heared about the game:

it doesn't have levels or classes, only 3 or 4 or so races. Some races can't practise certain skills. You practise skills by doing them.

"FFA" pvp. You can destroy other players ships or steal them.

You can build ships, towns, cities, citadels, but you need to hire NPC guards if you don't want someone to conquer it or something.

So no ''endgame'' content at all basicly. ( I might be wrong also )

Mon Nov 03 2008 8:19PM Report
AlloughN writes:

StarQuest Online, it has no levels, or classes. Your characters gets a bonus in some attribute, depending on what race he is.


Guilds are incorporated right into the main game factions, and of course, a guild can easily become it's own faction if it wants.


But thats only space, I would love to see more MMO's like this, as I'm a medieval/fantasy fan.

Can't wait for Darkfall. :D

Mon Nov 03 2008 9:38PM Report
Zayne3145 writes:

I must admit the main reason I join guilds is purely for the social aspect. As long as they're a fun bunch I couldn't care less if they help me or other people. At the end of the day I pay my subscription to enjoy myself, not be a virtual samaritan.

Tue Nov 04 2008 3:49AM Report
lyrrius writes:

ever tried eve online ? .  There it is possible to to challenge other guilds an alliances to war . In fact it happens every day . eve also gives you the tools to do so , like the ability to create chat channels for info exchange not even limited to corps ( eves guilds) but also to other people you want to join . Also the fact that somebody thats only playing for a few days can be helpful in those kind of wars helps a lot

Tue Nov 04 2008 4:08AM Report
craynlon writes:

i agree with the posts about levels screwing up mmos. the most powerfull fighter should be able to replace 3 normal guys not 300.
im quite happy tough with the chicken system in war allowing each level group to do their own thing without beeing griefed by end level guys. if only lineage2 would have sieges and zones like that...

i disagree that the game and story presented in an mmo is just a highway to endgame content. endgame is just a way of excluding a lot of player with the argument of "you are to low level". the story and atmosphere is the reason you should play the game not some instict driven reward system where you collect xp and gear as fast as you can. look back at the roots of pen&paper where the story outwaeighted the ammount of xp/gear by far.

in general i have the deepest respect to any guild leader doing the work that the gaming company should do: keeping players happy in game.

as an innovative step i would propose to try a guildless game with lots of ingame/ in story fractions that are in conflict to each other. looking at warhammer or aoc for example i see king conan and the king of the empire do less for the citysens of their realm then any dedicated guild leader.

imho the existance of player driven guilds, often without clear structure or political influence in terms of shaping the world, is just a shortcut of developers not paying life gms that would actually drive a story of political changes to the game world.

Tue Nov 04 2008 4:59AM Report
nomadian writes:

Thanks for replies, even if maybe one has missed the point of what I wrote by suggesting it was like being a 'virtual samaritan' -fair dos though that you're content with just the guild being an added chat channel.

To Pepsi- you're very much in the must-get-to-endgame asap camp, I personally prefer part of the journey and having fun on the way.


Lyrrius, EvE Online is a game I've always really wanted to like but being a fan of fantasy over space games I've never got into it. But it does sound very good that you're able to do that.








Tue Nov 04 2008 5:10AM Report
Kordesh writes:

 I'm ignoring the leveling argument because it's silly.

The guild war system should be adopted by more MMOs and I'm really not sure why it hasn't. It's a completely opt-in only system and it makes for some great rivalries. Guilds could definitely be more dynamic in general though. The "living guild" systems are nice (not specifically WAR, just using that term as its the most commonly known guild leveling system, EQ2 has it as well) but they're not terribly complex and cap out after a short while. The monarchy system in Asherons Call was a new and interesting idea that was pretty cool, the only downfall of it being that it turned the guilds into kind of pyramid schemes so people could farm experience off their vassals. 

Tue Nov 04 2008 9:33AM Report
nomadian writes:

Out of curiousity why do you say a levelling argument is silly?  Besides that agree with what you say about the guild war system, and the idea of levelling guilds is an interesting one.

Wed Nov 05 2008 12:01PM Report writes:
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