Magdalene's Shrine

Drunk driving is a horible crime, and a poor choice...but it is a choice. A video game is an art form, but one that is far more interactive than any movie. The choice to do this action, in the game, is yet another action to form the character, one that is far more in-depth than any other in the series. Maybe, for once, it would be best to attack those foolish enough to mimic a media, rather than the media, itself.

The game is not teaching anyone to break laws or commit crimes, do drugs and drink...it is only showing a story. And yet the game, as many other things, in the past, is being used as an easy source of blame. Educate the masses...maybe then they'd not be so sad as to mimic anything they see, so easily. I, for one, I'm tired of people blaming everything but the real problem; people. No game or song or television program is forcing anyone to do anything. It is all poor personal choice.

That said, again, Real Drunk Driving is a horrible crime, and it would be lovely if it stopped. But do not blame a game for people's ignorance.

This is incredibly retarded, I pray they just want attention for their propaganda. It's one thing to be "extremely disappointed" because of something dumb and unimportant in a game they'll never play, but to actually ask them to stop distribution. Out of respect for those who've been hurt, wow. They're the ones who need to show those people some respect, instead of acting like they're all weak children who can't handle anything and using them just to get across their message.

if that was my mum i would tell her to STFU lol

I agree tormentuk... However drunk driving isnt a game, but GTA IV is! Lets just leave it at that.

LOL!  yeah, like they would stop production on the most hyped console game of the year.

I could not have said it better myself, Bealzagre. I completely agree with you.

My wife and 2 of my 3 kids were killed by a drunk driver. That being said I don't feel that crapping on a video game is the correct path. Asking the publisher to stop production is just stupid.

HOWEVER,  as a developer myself albeit small time, I feel that it is a developers moral obligation to know when to draw the line and games now days are seriously seriously pushing it.

I don't feel a game will ever cause anyone to go nuts that ain't already nuts to begin with, but we really don't need to bombard our kids with anymore stupidity and bad choices than we already do.

Sung Lao Ma 1947-2001

Alexandria Sung 1981-2001

Lewis Whittman 1986-2001

OMG..gta is a game....

And that drunk driving... thats stupid because you dont need to drive home after drinking a lot.. .you can call a taxi or just walk, if you drive drunk in the game is your options

and after all... its just a game.. geez -.-

They should focus on controlling what their kids do and try to educate them instead of censoring things that could never do any harm on educated individuals.

Well who didn't see this coming, a big title is always going to get it share of idiots protesting about something.  I agree with you Ephimero, instead of bitching about everything under the sun educate these people.  When you take someone's toy away they lash out.  The day video games and media get censored/blocked from releasing it will be a cold day in hell in America.

I have never once played a violent game and thought to myself, "damn I should do that in real life that would be cool."  Maybe instead of getting little billy GTA4 because he sat and cried and threw a fit you should be a fuckin PARENT and do your god damn job instead of bitching.  Lock these psychos up and let the people who can handle a GAME have their fun.  End of story.  Fuckin media whores, just pisses me off.

As KaltesHerz points out, developers don't need to bombard kids with more stupidity and bad choices.  Especially given that so many young men believe in the "I cannot be affected by anything" theory.

Ephimero: "They should focus on controlling what their kids do and try to educate them instead of censoring things that could never do any harm on educated individuals."

Propaganda has been affecting "educated individuals" since the dawn of time.  People can be seduced into doing pretty much anything (e.g. killing themselves by smoking tobacco).  All it takes is the proper messages, applied in the proper order.  I don't expect GTA to cause kids to drive drunk, but it sure isn't going to help to discourage it.  It makes it entertaining for Pete's sake  Any "educated individual" would pick up on the significance of that.

To change a game's content because some one don't like it is stupid. People that create a game, have a right to put in what ever they wish. It is their creation.

BUT on the Other hand, to say that it needs an AO rating is Acceptable. They are not asking for the game to be ban, just make sure it goes to the audience attended.

*sigh* I dont like the games.. never have, never will. But as has been pointed out before: Its a game! For the love of hamsters shut up! I understand where they are coming from, but nagging about this is just going to make the game more popular. Just like "the war on drugs" and the Prohibition has never curbed or stopped the use of drugs and alcohol.

First of all its not marketed for kids that's the parents own god damn fault if they get them the damn game, the rating is there for a reason.  It's the parents own god damn fault for not telling them effects of alcohol and drugs.  Its the parents own god damn fault for having kids when they are not fit to have kids.  Using the media as a foot to stand on is the lowest of low, shit happens we can't change it and it happens to everyone.

Gotta say I agree.

I'm sick of parents not taking responsibility for the fact their kids are stupid.  But thats okay, we can just keep pointing fingers at all of the OTHER influences...even the ones which are inane.  Even when you think about the idiots that DO look at video games and say "Im gonna base my life around this!"...you can't blame the game.  Its the parents fault AGAIN for apparently never teaching the child the line between fantasy and reality.

JB47394, I would start getting worried about such sitiations whenever we start seeing news pointing at educated people who were influenced by videogames in order to do something wrong.

So far, i've only seen a 7 years old kid living with his grandma stealing a car, and a crazy guy who thought he was squall from Final fantasy (he even had the same hair) that ended up killing his parents with a katana, those are obviously kids with issues, the first kid made it to please his "gangsta" friends who smoke, the other had already known mental issues, and would have ended up doing the same.

Yet another group that instead of trying to put out a message of understanding and education, they freak out. There's no reason to give this game an AO because it has drinking and driving. Maybe they could be doing something productive instead of, oh, I don't know, getting upset over a game.

*facepalm* I hope these mothers get hit by a drunk driver, again.

'Course, that's my meaner side speaking. My 'tender' side says that if someone is stupid enough to be influenced by a game to drink then drive, please do so and die. Of course, try to miss any innocents in the way, but make sure you die. Darwin thanks you.

Yeh, the game already has a mature rating. So for your kid to get the game the parent would have to get it or accompany the minor to get the game. And if later on you're worried that your child is influenced by the game in some way the only retard you can blame is yourself for buying the game in the first place.

For the most part I feel as most of you do. For someone to go on a killing spree there has to be something has to be seriously F***ed up with that person to begin with. But I suppose it's natural for a parent to blame something else such as video game rather than blaming it on their own horrible parenting or that their kid was just F***ed up in the head. Dumbasses are gonna drive drunk regardless of a game. If they're drunk, aren't near home, and have their keys in their pockets... Chances are...

And if they did change it to a AO rating it had better be plenty of Hot Coffee action! ^_^

Paraphrased from the "Mothers" song from the South Park movie:

"We better start to make a fuss,
before somebody thinks of blamin' us!"

Having children is a choice. Not taking responsibility for that choice is also a choice. To blame others for the consequences of those two choices only shows a complete unwillingness to face the simple truth: Parenting isn't easy and there are no legitimate short-cuts. You're there for life.

(Father of one)

1) I doubt that these mothers have even played the game. 

2) Go play the game if you haven't and SEE what the "drunk driving minigame" is.  One, it's not a minigame.  Two, it's about impossible to drive drunk anyways, I never tried, I get a headache just by walking in the game and taking a cab back (the screen is messed up pretty bad lol).  Three, the characters in the game actively discourage you to drive drunk!

3) I seem to recall video games being non existent when...oh geez pick something extremely violent in history to use as an example.  Here's a few Holocaust, Jack the Ripper (since we're talking about individuals here), numerous other serial killers...wars...etc etc.  Why the hell is it videogames all of a sudden that are creating a violent society when violent crime in the US has been steadily decreasing!

Yes, drunk driving and the possible results of a drunk driver are horrible and should be fought every step of the way.

But as has been said many times here, IT"S ALL VIRTUAL and NO ONE gets hurt. It's virtual alcohol, it's a virtual car, a virtual driver, and virtual roadkill. It isn't like someones gonna play the game and say "oh wow, this drunk driving thing looks fun, lets go get hammered and drive around. Maybe we'll hit some pedestrians, or pick up some hookers, get busy, kick em out and beat em for our money back.

Come on people.... I understand that the members of MADD have all probably been affected in a major way by drunk driving, and I feel for them. But lets face it, GTA has always been somewhat of a "reality" simulator, and drunk driving is "reality" so it's inclusion makes sense IMO.

It doesnt matter what people do and say... no matter how much parents complain about the game... its not going to make any diference...

GTA still selling.. people go to the store and buy it... done!

Dont want your kids to play it.. they dont get it for them... or just take a look from now and then to see what they play...

Worried about your kids playing it in friends house... too bad.. take care of your kids friends then...

Remember this is M game... in other words not for kids...

What really pissed me off about this whinning people about games is that they want others like developers and goverment.. in general the society... take the responsability of parents about what their kids play...

And if you drink and drive... hello! you are an adult or at least you know the drill about driving... I bet you have enough mind to know whats going to happend if you drive drunk... and if you decide to do it anyway... then is going to be your jail time... why screw up a developer because drunks???

Maybe all of thise anti-GTA fans say: We care about our kids and future.... In reality what they are saying... we are so unresponsible parents that we wants others to take care of what our kids play... HELLO!!!! is your house.. and kids... keep a watch of what they do and have... do your best to keep them in the track you want... stop bugging us....

Sincerely

People taking care of their own problems (not throwing it away to others)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RU6rWQd2cxs

So, let me get this straight, in a video game, its ok to shoot some one in the face with a shotgun and go on a murderous rampage, but its not ok to drive drunk?  That makes loads of sense.

This is exactly where these types of groups start to look like theyre on an obsessive power trip.  Like some one already mentioned, drunk driving is actually discouraged in the game by other characters and by the police, who come after you as soon as they see you.

Anyway, thats besides the point.  Whoever made the South Park reference is right on.  This is exactly the kind of shit that they were mocking in the series and the movie.  Parents and interest groups finding easy targets to turn into scape goats for their political agenda.  And yes, I do know what MADD is all about, before anyone even brings it up...

Eh, too many people are argueing the who cares part of the arguement.  Might as well take the other side to keep this from getting stale.  Media influences everyone, that cannot be ignored.  Strong media influences educated people, and any media at all  influences idiots.  And hoo-lee-crap we have alot of idiots in the world.

The game developer has EVERY RIGHT to put out any game they want, and ESRB gets to rate it accordingly.  Hands down that is how it goes.

Game developers should be careful about what they put in a popular game, not because of censorship or dumbass organizations getting pissed off, but because a popular game has the potential to influence mass numbers of idiots.  Mass numbers of idiots can cause some huge damage if they decide to mimic the game.  Now, hurrah if they all get smashed and find a deserted road and have a million idiot dragrace and thats it.  Even better if a smart person went and got it on video for youtube.  That would get so many more hits than dramatic look gopher and what what in the butt (hilarious videos).  But, back to the point, major game developers should not be making things like drunk driving anything but a very obscure thing in their game, or at least make it completely non-realistic.  If they made it completely non-realistic, than idiots wouldnt get ideas off of it.  I seriously doubt an idiot would dress up like a dwarf with a battleaxe, get hammered, and drive his battle ram drunk around a major city (WoW).  God i get side-tracked a lot.  By making it something big enough ingame to obtain media attention, idiots will hear about it, screw around with it in game, make uneducated responses on forums telling MADD to piss off without adding any intellectual comments or ideas and then get high/drunk and say "Hellz yea! I'm gonna go drive my car because im a badass, F U MADD!!!".  Sadly, i know people like this.

anyways, there are my two cents.

-Lance

about that last comment with shooting in the face.  Even most idiots in the world can distinguish that shooting someone in the face is not the best idea.  Things like driving drunk, XTREEEEEEEME sports (kyacking through a mini-mart aisle), and other potential dangerous acts to both the person involved and those around them are more dangerous to be subjecting idiots to because these acts aren't going to be instantly shot down in their mind as something to do.

-Lance

Wouldn't it really be GTAMADD protest GTAIV's drunk driving? If not, then they shouldn't bother with a game. Their argument is legitamate, drunk driving IS dangerous, but it's a game.

these MADD people are fracking retarded, in when drunk in the game is SUCKS, it is extremeley hard to drive and the cops are always after you, in GTA IV they portray drunk driving as extremely bad, the player is even advised to NOT drive when drunk...

lastly, one of the most useful phrases in the world that some people dont seem to get... IT IS A GAME

They can protest all they want.  The ESRB guidelines are pretty clear, and there is nothing in GTA4 that warrants an AO.

That said, I would have some very strong words for any parent who allowed a child to play this game.

These people need to find something else to bitch about and realize that gaming isn't the cause of their problems.

This was all predictable. If there was an organization for the protection against the maltreatment of prostitutes, they would have had their opportunity to decry GTA long ago. It's too bad they lack the vision of seeing these drunken DUI experiences as a simulator that proves their point. Game designers have gone to great lengths to impare gamer perception of their environments to increase the difficulty of controling the events in game. Experiencing Flash Bang grenades is another example, where sight and sound are impared during critical combat situations. These simulations, to the "smart" gamer demonstrate the foolishness of replicating the experience outside of their homes and their consequences.. The only experience missing from the drunken driving experience aside from getting caught by the Law, are the fines, community service, and the long process of getting your drivers license back, if possible at all. MADD should have seeked to offered their support and advice, rather than play the blame game.

Virtual murder isn't as a big an issue as virtual drunk driving? See, the stigma of violence in video games has sorta faded over the decades. There's a solid rating system that's been in effect for years, which is just as effective as any other rating system out there. So why is this an issue? There is none! Ooo...or maybe we're all just numbed from so much violence that we don't care. Yeah, that's it.

Negative press has never hurt the GTA franchise. It's proof positive IN THIS VERY GAME. By the way, is there already some sort of drunk driving sim out there that people have been playing prior to GTA4? People drink, they act fooolishly and they kill other people. Since when does simlulating that cold, hard fact make it any more of a threat? I've not looked into statistics, but I'm willing to bet that drunk driving really hasn't changed much over the last 50 years.

If I play Devil's advocate for a moment, and put little Johnny in front of a TV set all day with every rated "M" game out there and allow him to play unsupervised and unparented for years on end, he may indeed turn out to be a bad apple. He may just go out there and murder someone or drive drunk someday! But then again, a parent that would allow that to happen is probably fucked in the head and had an identical upbringing as a child themselves. So bluealien1 has it right. It's easy to make claims, cite references and inject psychology into the argument when the real failings of society are racism, broken homes, bad parenting and the system in general.

MADD, you need to direct your energies where they've always been if you expect to do any sort of good. Entertainment is what it is and anyone with half a brain and a sliver of moral fiber will know the difference.

I was unaware there WAS an AO rating, WHY is this needed?

Mature means 18+ ONLY

if your 18 your old enough to go to war your old enough to drink in most civilized countries (other than the US, however if your on an airbase YOU CAN Drink at 18 if your in the military)

Why is there a rating that is above 18+?

If you go to block buster and your under 18 you CANNOT rent any M rated game, why would there need to be an even heavier restriction?

I love GTA, I would certainly let my daughter play it if she's a grownup. With all due respect to all mothers out there, being a tightass and paranoid will only result in making your kids live in the stoneage, immature and only see things in just one color.