Well, its pretty obvious now how Mythic has screwed the pooch on this one. Warhammer has a ton of potential, but lately I have seen nothing but screwed up patches that create more imbalance and issues with the game than existed prior to the patch. Honestly, Mythic, you need to stop releasing big patches and trying to "fix" something that isn't broken in the first place. Now Bright Wizards, Warrior Priests, Slayers, and Choppas all have issues on top of the pre-existing problems with the other classes. RvR is broke, period. City Sieges are pointless and nothing like watching our city sacked each day because destro players are quiting due to all the class imbalance issues. Anyway, enough ranting and time for a constructive suggestion.
I can categorize most classes into some simple buckets, such as Tank, Melee DPS (MDPS), Ranged DPS (RDPS), and Healer. Its pretty simple to figure out what classes go where and some classes may act as hybrids straddling multiple arch types (e.g. Disciple of Khain, Warrior Priest, etc). In my mind I see each arch type having a Weak Versus and a Strong Versus, meaning classes you suck against and those you are meant to destroy on the battlefield. It does not seem any logic was put in place with this in mind or at least it is incredible difficult to see the logic when in comes to Warhammer. You could argue it would make the game boring, but there is enough room for creativity to make some interesting hybrid and Weak Versus and Strong Versus combinations.
Anyway, I love diagrams, so I came up with this one using Visio. Not anything special, just a visual illustration of how I see each classes' role fit against other classes. Hybrids would simply pick up the Weak Versus and Strong Versus of both arch types, but never be excellent at either one compared to the "pure" classes. Healers, yes you lose the game here. Your job is to HEAL, not to DPS, not to Tank, just heal end of discussion. If you want to tank, play a hybrid class that has tanking ability, but expect to be passed for a full healing class, such as a Zealot or Arch Mage. I know it makes the job boring, but reality is that we have to look into other things to make the class interesting instead of making them DPS and Tank classes. Honestly, look at DAOC pre-TOA days and you will get the idea. People had healers, because healers meant buffs and meant you could beat the crap out of unbuffed targets. Yes, it did give rise to the buff bots, but putting limits on the buff ranges helped a ton preventing the solo guys running around with buffs all to hell.
Well that's my 2 cents for this post. Doubt anyone will see it, doubt Mythic will find this post, but I feel better having gotten that crap off my chest.
My response to your blog should be taken with a grain a salt, since I havent played in months. From what I remember, Mythic was trying to get away from the caster standing back spamming heals. They wanted the healer / support role to be fun, not boring. I think they had this in mind when they developed the morale system. Archmages, Shamen actually had more efficient heals when they dealt damage. Warrior priests and DoKs need to inflict melee damage to build up their power pool as well or they spend have the time praying to build it back up again.
So that mechanic was designed as intended to get away from the standard healer.
Thu Apr 16 2009 8:54AMAgreed, but given the state the game is in with patch 1.2, I have to say that the "mechanic" is broken at the moment. I agree with making the classes entertaining, but right now, destruction in particular, has a severe lack of healers who actually heal. While it might be a matter of population, I think it has more to do with the mechanics of the game itself that is turning players off.
Thu Apr 16 2009 9:05AMI understand your dismay, but rest assured it's not Mythic causing the issue. I play in a guild that is both Order and Destruction on 2 different servers. Our Order guild has been running pretty smooth since day one. Our Destro guild has even been server jumping to try to find a place where Destro just plain doesn't suck. We have yet to find it. Our guild is also about 60% healers. Takes us 15 minutes to get sick of rezzing folks because they have no clue about that chart you posted above.
First off, I would suggest rolling a healer. If I had a nickle for every time a Witch Elf or Marauder was beating away on a Ironbreaker who is being healed by a Runepriest who's standing right next to them...I would be giving hand outs to Bill Gates. And they expect me to keep them alive? Why should I waste the AP when there MAY actually be one person out of 24 who is actually playing their archetype correctly. Better chance that we can duo the Order Warband.
Another reason Destro has issues with healers...we're all laying dead behind you while you're tanking a Bright Wizard. It would be nice if even one tank would stay back to defend us...or a MDPS...or anyone. Hell even our Magus and Sorcs run straight into melee combat. Anyways, if you look and see that your healer is at 0% health...please don't cry for heals and rez. Mythic doesn't allow us to do that while we are dead.
In the same note...um kill Order's healers...FIRST. The thing that makes Order seem so overpowerful is that while Destro lets all their healers die within the first 16 seconds of every battle, they run attack whatever is closest. So when they're all beating on the SINGLE KotBS who's being healed by every healer in the Warband (which is easy if he's the only one being attacked) it really doesn't do much. Seriously.
I would suggest you come play Order. There are actually a few good individual Destro players that will make you eat your words about imbalance. I know a few Witch Elves that can still solo take out a full unorganized group. We won't even get into Pit of Shades spam...because it's the same PBAoE that Bright Wizards spam.
Anywho, I have a level 40 Blackguard, Squig Herder, Zealot and DoK all mid realm rank that I have retired from 2 servers. I would really love to play them again. So I beg Destro...learn to play the game so I can have fun again.
Thu Apr 16 2009 9:34AMMr Scratch,
I can't agree with you more honestly. The issue has a lot to do with destruction players, yes. When we run our guild RvR groups we are very effective as we target healers and casters and defend our back lines. Then again, we are a team of guild members working towards a similar goal AND we have ventrilo, so communication is much easier that way. In game voice chat could easily assist with RvR, but not sure if that is on the horizon at all. Not saying voice chat would resolve the issues entirely, but it certainly would help. Destro is very disorganized and the population imbalance on Iron Rock has not helped much either. I just might go and give Order a shot. Last time I played Order was in pre-launch beta, so just might dust off those classes. :) Any recommendations on a server other than Iron Rock? :)
Thu Apr 16 2009 9:42AMMuch as I hate to say it...
/looks around
Phoenix Throne. Now before all the hemming and hawing, many of the larger better run former DAoC guilds came over there. These guys have alot of experience and work well together. It's rare to have to ask for heals and rez, you just get it. Also, the majority of the time, they will wait until everyone is at a BO before they cap it. Can you imagine...don't even have to spam regional "DON'T CAP!"
Lastly, Destro gives a hell of a good fight there. If it wasn't for my Order side of the guild being there, it's most likely where I would play Destro. They do all the cool stuff like target healers first and such. Just got some great players over there.
Best suggestion I could make is, come on over and play Order for a bit. Just to get that feeling of, "Oh wow, it's really not that out of balance." Then, delete the Order scum and play Destro on PT. If your guild isn't coming with you, shoot me a PM and I can get you in contact with the Guild Leaders of some of the larger Destro Guilds on the server as well.
Thu Apr 16 2009 10:09AMThanks Mr Scratch, will keep that in mind. Being that I am a DAOC veteran, might be nice to see some other veterans around. I am always looking for a good RvR fight and working together as a team, as we should be! :)
Thu Apr 16 2009 10:33AMMMORPG.com writes:
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